cmfarm
Well-known member
This is turning into a really good discussion and I am learning a lot!
What determines growth rate
- Thread starter cmfarm
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I raise meat rabbits, - I focus on 8 week litter weights, [and mothering ability, which again goes back to 8 week litter weights].I will breed no rabbit with any problem at all, and I only breed the very best, I choose my replacements from doe, and buck combinations that have a proven track record, but -since I have had these rabbits a few years I know how a doe's daughters are doing, so can choose replacements from older does with great producing daughters , with proven track records, for my replacement stock.
aussiegirl
Well-known member
May I ask what weights do you guys aim for at 6 - 8 weeks of age, I have to process my growers when they reach between 1.2kg - 1.8kg live weight (only had a couple of rabbits make it over 1.5kg). Would like to see them reach 1.8kg at this age or at least have them at 1.2kg when 6 weeks old.
The rabbit feed in my area are very limited so I have had to do a lot of experimenting (can only get Riverina or Barastock pellets - I buy both & mix 3/4 Barastock with 1/4 Riverina and a scoop of Gumnuts used for horses, I would love to try that Calf Manna I have read about on the net but it's not available in Australia. I have also been feeding a small amount of BOSS to nursing does and growers.
I have been using this website as my guide for the growth rates
100daysrabbitry
Any suggestions would be great
I breed New Zealands; Californian; Flemish Giant & British Giant.
I also have Standard Rex (currently experimenting through selective breeding to get a Giant Rex).
And show quality Thrianta (very rare in Australia, I was contacted by a lady who is very well known in the show circuit asking if I was interested in helping to protect and improve this breed, and to also use these rabbits in a special breeding program to try get our version of the 'New Zealand Reds' back - it's going to be very time consuming & tedious work with the selective breeding so that I don't ruin this breed while trying to achieve the results we want).
I don't process the growers off the Rex or Thrianta except the crosses, the purebreds are sold as show rabbits or pets (the Thrianta are only sold for show).
The rabbit feed in my area are very limited so I have had to do a lot of experimenting (can only get Riverina or Barastock pellets - I buy both & mix 3/4 Barastock with 1/4 Riverina and a scoop of Gumnuts used for horses, I would love to try that Calf Manna I have read about on the net but it's not available in Australia. I have also been feeding a small amount of BOSS to nursing does and growers.
I have been using this website as my guide for the growth rates
100daysrabbitry
Any suggestions would be great
I breed New Zealands; Californian; Flemish Giant & British Giant.
I also have Standard Rex (currently experimenting through selective breeding to get a Giant Rex).
And show quality Thrianta (very rare in Australia, I was contacted by a lady who is very well known in the show circuit asking if I was interested in helping to protect and improve this breed, and to also use these rabbits in a special breeding program to try get our version of the 'New Zealand Reds' back - it's going to be very time consuming & tedious work with the selective breeding so that I don't ruin this breed while trying to achieve the results we want).
I don't process the growers off the Rex or Thrianta except the crosses, the purebreds are sold as show rabbits or pets (the Thrianta are only sold for show).
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Dood":3olg0xgn said:
i have an Angora doe who is doing that. I just bred her, and if that doesn't stop, she will become a pelt!
She's not very nice either, something I can't abide in a 10lb wooler. <br /><br /> __________ Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:12 am __________ <br /><br />
aussiegirl":3olg0xgn said:
And this is where I fail.
I have only kept track of my litter weights once.
All of my breeds are fur breeds. For the most part, they are just going to grow slower than the other commercial breeds. Rex that grow out fast tend not to have the fur quality necessary for show at jr and sr prime. Sometimes not at all. The nutrients either go to the coat or the growth, and I need the coat. And with litters of 9-12, I'm just not going to make anywhere near a commercial fryer weight. I want pelts too, so no culls until 12-16 weeks at the earliest.
I weigh in at 12 weeks. The largest Rex was 5lbs at 12 weeks, and had descended testicles. But later I culled him because he never got any bigger.
The Angoras grow faster than the other two commercial breeds, usually 5-6lbs at 12 weeks. This latest group was larger.
Although they aren't making fryer weights, the sr weight is very good. The Rex average 9-10lbs, the Angoras 10-10.5lbs, and the SF this year are freaks, nearly 12 lbs.
My rabbits were getting to 5 pounds in 8 to 10 weeks when I was feeding 18% protein so that is my goal on my hay, grain and forage diet.
I had one doe in February at 4lb 12oz at 8 weeks - I nick named her "beast" :mrgreen: she started to stand out from her littermates at 3 weeks old and just ballooned from there and the funny thing is I don't think she'll weigh over 10 pounds as a senior as she's slowed down significantly :shrug:
I hope it's not a glandular issue and that she passes this amazing growth rate onto her kits
opcorn:
I had one doe in February at 4lb 12oz at 8 weeks - I nick named her "beast" :mrgreen: she started to stand out from her littermates at 3 weeks old and just ballooned from there and the funny thing is I don't think she'll weigh over 10 pounds as a senior as she's slowed down significantly :shrug:
I hope it's not a glandular issue and that she passes this amazing growth rate onto her kits
opcorn:aussiegirl
Well-known member
Those are really good weights Dood,
The Barastock feed I use is 18% Protein; 15% Fiber; 3% Fat
The Riverina feed I mix in is 17% Protein; 16% Fiber; no fat
The Gumnuts feed is Energy DE 14%; Protein 16%; Fiber 8%; Fat 7%
The growth rates of the Growers seemed to have improved slightly using this mix but I still need to see better growth.
I recently processed just over 100 growers the other day, they were a little over 7 weeks old. Most ranged between 1.25kg - 1.46kg, only had 32 weigh over 1.5kg (8 of those were 1.8kg - males of course Darn it!!).
The Barastock feed I use is 18% Protein; 15% Fiber; 3% Fat
The Riverina feed I mix in is 17% Protein; 16% Fiber; no fat
The Gumnuts feed is Energy DE 14%; Protein 16%; Fiber 8%; Fat 7%
The growth rates of the Growers seemed to have improved slightly using this mix but I still need to see better growth.
I recently processed just over 100 growers the other day, they were a little over 7 weeks old. Most ranged between 1.25kg - 1.46kg, only had 32 weigh over 1.5kg (8 of those were 1.8kg - males of course Darn it!!).
I really lucked out on my first trio of rabbits - they were pedigreed, purebred and ugly as sin with weak shoulders but MAN! they were good production rabbits and set the foundation for my entire rabbitry
If the 18% pellets were cheaper ($25/50pound bag :x ) I might still be feeding them but maybe not since it's hard to beat free :mrgreen: which is what my feed bill is in the summer when I can pillage the fields for fresh greens and supplement with grains at $9/50 pounds
If the 18% pellets were cheaper ($25/50pound bag :x ) I might still be feeding them but maybe not since it's hard to beat free :mrgreen: which is what my feed bill is in the summer when I can pillage the fields for fresh greens and supplement with grains at $9/50 pounds
Joe n TN
Well-known member
The lady that own Chigger Ridge Rabbitry sold me the best ever buck I've owned. She said she picked her studs based on their growth rate as a kit. A 5lb+ kit at 10 weeks was a keeper, or sold as a stud buck. Her results spoke for themselves so I've always tried following this advice. Side note, I had to sell that buck when I moved to Texas, but my friend that has him says he is still producing very well for him.
Since I have been in Texas I have not yet found a buck that I want to keep yet. I have one that comes from Texas A&M stock that I am breeding to my does now. I will run him through the fall, but have my eyes open for a good replacement buck as well.
Since I have been in Texas I have not yet found a buck that I want to keep yet. I have one that comes from Texas A&M stock that I am breeding to my does now. I will run him through the fall, but have my eyes open for a good replacement buck as well.
aussiegirl
Well-known member
aussiegirl":134hxwiy said:
The litter mentioned above have just turned 9 weeks old (I have kept 2 does and 1 buck - the other two were also bucks which were processed last week).
The weights of the three I kept @ 9 wks are: 2.302kg (buck); 2.046kg (doe); 2.800kg (doe)
Both parents are californian marked and are Suppose to be purebred because that is what I asked & paid for, but obviously one or both parents have NZW as the largest female is a REW and the other 4 were californian marked. Although I am happy with the weights you can never guarantee what you are actually buying.
Here are some pics of the 3 youngsters I kept.
cmfarm
Well-known member
That group is looking really good!
TF3
Well-known member
Great thread! So helpful.
I'm new and just starting with meat rabbits.
Is it fair to say that monitoring growth from birth - processing needs to be balanced with adult weight/size?
If you only tracked kits up to processing, at say 7 lbs. but realize that some of those same rabbits only hit 8-9 as adults in a large breed, would you not want to be getting larger adult weights or would it matter?
For those with rapid turnover... do you do the same with your bucks?
Right now, my best rabbits are my bucks in terms of size and qualities I'd like to push forward.
If daughters are coming along better than their mothers, does it make sense to keep the best daughter and go back to the sire?
Or will this see diminishing returns?
(I was taught with dogs that if you like the offspring, go back to the sire, not expect his sons to produce as well as he did)
I'm new and just starting with meat rabbits.
Is it fair to say that monitoring growth from birth - processing needs to be balanced with adult weight/size?
If you only tracked kits up to processing, at say 7 lbs. but realize that some of those same rabbits only hit 8-9 as adults in a large breed, would you not want to be getting larger adult weights or would it matter?
For those with rapid turnover... do you do the same with your bucks?
Right now, my best rabbits are my bucks in terms of size and qualities I'd like to push forward.
If daughters are coming along better than their mothers, does it make sense to keep the best daughter and go back to the sire?
Or will this see diminishing returns?
(I was taught with dogs that if you like the offspring, go back to the sire, not expect his sons to produce as well as he did)
As long as they get close to 5 pounds in 10 to 12 weeks on the diet I feed, I'd actually rather have smaller adult sizes - they eat less, have smaller poops, tolerate heat better, are easier to handle, etc...
If I was showing that might not be the case as I have to follow someone else's idea of a perfect meat rabbit to avoid disqualification
I keep an eye out for fast growing males and test them on does to see what they produce and replace the older buck if the youngster out performs.
PS The 10 year old buck I mention in many of my posts was first a family pet for 7 years before I decided to breed meat rabbits and use him on my American Chinchilla does and why he got to stick around for so long, I've actually gone through several meat rabbit bucks in the 4 years I've been doing this
If I was showing that might not be the case as I have to follow someone else's idea of a perfect meat rabbit to avoid disqualification
I keep an eye out for fast growing males and test them on does to see what they produce and replace the older buck if the youngster out performs.
PS The 10 year old buck I mention in many of my posts was first a family pet for 7 years before I decided to breed meat rabbits and use him on my American Chinchilla does and why he got to stick around for so long, I've actually gone through several meat rabbit bucks in the 4 years I've been doing this
grumpy
Well-known member
There is an enormous amount of variables that contribute to positive growth weight.
First and foremost, one must consider the litter size and the success rate of that doe
to raise a minimum of 7 kits to processing age. Any number of less than 7 kits skews
the weights to the positive side, but gives a lop-sided value to that doe. Those does
aren't "worthless" but they should not be used to base your future on. (They are
excellent prospects for being foster mothers.) I intentionally keep a couple on hand
strictly for that purpose. I don't save any of their youngsters for production stock.
A "good" doe will give you 8-10 healthy, good-sized kits consistently over her
production career which lasts oftentimes in excess of 4 years around here.
This is based on a 6-7 litter per year breeding cycle. I don't hammer my stock.
They'll begin to slow down, but their value in the production of longevity
characteristics in your herd cannot be over-looked nor discounted. They too,
make excellent foster mothers. One's that I'd prefer over the less fecund does
mentioned above. I had a surprise a few weeks ago, one of my older, standby's
had nine kits and saved eight with one lone kit getting their foot caught in the
floor wire and having to be put down. These kits will be watched closely and the
top ones will be placed in replacement pens. Even out of your best does, you'll
find those 2 or 3 exceptional individuals. Keep 'em.
That's the criteria is use for my stock does. At the present time, I can expect a first
litter doe to have 8-11, or 12 kits and successfully raise a minimum of 8 kits to market weight.
I usually "reduce" the number of kits to 8, either through fostering or culling. An "ink-dot"
tattoo in their ear/w a small reminder note on Mama's pen tells me where they are.
Next: Comes the buck and it's an important selection because he's 50% of your herd.
He MUST come from one of the above mentioned does. Even tempered and puppy-dog friendly
is important. Wide shoulders, stamina, aggressive breeding style serving the doe 2-3 times
in less than 10 minutes. NEVER allow them to take a butt-whippin' from an aggressive doe
early-on in their breeding career. A timid breeding buck takes up far too much of my time.
Once you've established your herd, be wary of allowing any new blood into it. Any cross
reduces your efforts thus far by 50%. Just make sure the new introduction is as good,
or better than what you've got in your pens at the present. If you're "happy" with the
results you're getting, don't worry about the "closeness" of your breeding regime. If anything,
try to enhance what you have and make it better.
Better? means increasing not only the weights when they reach market age, (10 weeks or less)
but also improving dress-out percentages. (see below)
Litter of 7 kits: 9 weeks-5 days old. Total live weight: 37 lbs. 2 oz. Avg. 5.3lbs. per kit.
Combined dressed weight of the litter: 23 lbs. 6 oz. (includes liver, heart, kidneys.)
I processed this litter on Tuesday of last week.
23.375 lbs. divided by 37.125 lbs. = 62.9% Dress-Out. (my best so far)
Grumpy.
First and foremost, one must consider the litter size and the success rate of that doe
to raise a minimum of 7 kits to processing age. Any number of less than 7 kits skews
the weights to the positive side, but gives a lop-sided value to that doe. Those does
aren't "worthless" but they should not be used to base your future on. (They are
excellent prospects for being foster mothers.) I intentionally keep a couple on hand
strictly for that purpose. I don't save any of their youngsters for production stock.
A "good" doe will give you 8-10 healthy, good-sized kits consistently over her
production career which lasts oftentimes in excess of 4 years around here.
This is based on a 6-7 litter per year breeding cycle. I don't hammer my stock.
They'll begin to slow down, but their value in the production of longevity
characteristics in your herd cannot be over-looked nor discounted. They too,
make excellent foster mothers. One's that I'd prefer over the less fecund does
mentioned above. I had a surprise a few weeks ago, one of my older, standby's
had nine kits and saved eight with one lone kit getting their foot caught in the
floor wire and having to be put down. These kits will be watched closely and the
top ones will be placed in replacement pens. Even out of your best does, you'll
find those 2 or 3 exceptional individuals. Keep 'em.
That's the criteria is use for my stock does. At the present time, I can expect a first
litter doe to have 8-11, or 12 kits and successfully raise a minimum of 8 kits to market weight.
I usually "reduce" the number of kits to 8, either through fostering or culling. An "ink-dot"
tattoo in their ear/w a small reminder note on Mama's pen tells me where they are.
Next: Comes the buck and it's an important selection because he's 50% of your herd.
He MUST come from one of the above mentioned does. Even tempered and puppy-dog friendly
is important. Wide shoulders, stamina, aggressive breeding style serving the doe 2-3 times
in less than 10 minutes. NEVER allow them to take a butt-whippin' from an aggressive doe
early-on in their breeding career. A timid breeding buck takes up far too much of my time.
Once you've established your herd, be wary of allowing any new blood into it. Any cross
reduces your efforts thus far by 50%. Just make sure the new introduction is as good,
or better than what you've got in your pens at the present. If you're "happy" with the
results you're getting, don't worry about the "closeness" of your breeding regime. If anything,
try to enhance what you have and make it better.
Better? means increasing not only the weights when they reach market age, (10 weeks or less)
but also improving dress-out percentages. (see below)
Litter of 7 kits: 9 weeks-5 days old. Total live weight: 37 lbs. 2 oz. Avg. 5.3lbs. per kit.
Combined dressed weight of the litter: 23 lbs. 6 oz. (includes liver, heart, kidneys.)
I processed this litter on Tuesday of last week.
23.375 lbs. divided by 37.125 lbs. = 62.9% Dress-Out. (my best so far)
Grumpy.
grumpy":144oucog said:
Grumpy, is there any way you've found to predict what size litter a doe will have, or do you just keep the best doe kits and try them and only continue breeding the ones that have the size litters you want?
And when you need to cull to get down to 8 kits in a litter, how do you choose which to cull and which to keep and when do you do it--the first day?
Thanks for taking time to share your experience with us beginners.
grumpy
Well-known member
Every young doe starts "even" in my eyes. They've got a good background.
Displayed excellent health and vitality while becoming juniors on up to maiden status.
I DON'T hold does till they're 7-9 months old before they're exposed to a buck.
And, it's usually one of my older herd bucks. One who's well experienced because
young does can be a little "Goofy" at times and misbehave. 5 months old and 8 pounds,
the doe visits the buck. If all is well with the world, she should 'lift' with little to no problem.
Now....comes the trial period that lasts their entire production life. They MUST earn
their cage space each and every time they're exposed to a buck. They're allowed 2
misses and that may well be all the chances they'll get. If their mother is excellent,
they should be the same. If not....they're gone. It's a rare circumstance they'll
get that 3rd chance.
I can "predict" what a doe will do AFTER she's had 4-6 litters...LOL. I'm cheatin' I know,
but I'm honest. WHO KNOWS what an untested rabbit will do? I surely don't. I can make a
pretty good guess, but that's about it. And I base those predictions on her maternal
heritage. "Good begets Good" and that's all we can honestly breed for. I've had some
superstar's among my working girls and I'm proud of them. I keep their daughters and
one or two sons (every so often) for future breeding stock or possible sales to potential
growers. I sell what I would keep for myself, and I let the buyer make the choices.
I do my very best to "stack" the odds in my favor through breeding and selection of
superior qualities shown in the maternal side of the line.
# RK-45 is a 'smallish' doe that most would pass by. BUT.....take a look at her
hutch card and you'll see why she's there. She just had her 9th litter. Never less
than 8 kits born-8 kits saved...up to 11 kits born-10 kits saved. I believe she's
lost a grand total of two kits in a year and a half's production. I'm fixin' to pull
one or two of her daughters out for replacement or sale stock.
My bucks are part of the genetic family. They come from the same does that my
replacements are chosen from. I don't inbreed.....but I do Line-Breed and there's
not a flippin' thing wrong with that. I'll say this though, I'm super tough on my
selections when it comes to putting a buck in a replacement pen. I've raised really
good looking bucks, only to turn around and ship them out on the Snake-Train.
I "saw" something that I didn't quite like and POOF they're history. It took me
4 years and a dozen really nice bucks to find "ONE" that I was satisfied with out
of one of my top herd bucks. He's turning out to be pretty decent, but it's taken
him 2.5 years to earn my respect. I'm tough on the boys. LOL.
I'll wait a couple days before I reduce the litter count. I let Mother Nature cull for
me for the first few days. After that, I do my best to 'equalize' the sizes of the
kits. If I've got 2 or 3 real dandy's, I'll spot-dot a tattoo mark in their ear and
place them with a doe that's got 6 or less that might be one or two days older.
They'll do fine against the bigger kits. The really tiny kits, I'm forced to dispose
of them. It's hard to do so, but I'm not raisin' pets and I cannot afford the cage
space based upon sentimentality.
Grumpy.
Displayed excellent health and vitality while becoming juniors on up to maiden status.
I DON'T hold does till they're 7-9 months old before they're exposed to a buck.
And, it's usually one of my older herd bucks. One who's well experienced because
young does can be a little "Goofy" at times and misbehave. 5 months old and 8 pounds,
the doe visits the buck. If all is well with the world, she should 'lift' with little to no problem.
Now....comes the trial period that lasts their entire production life. They MUST earn
their cage space each and every time they're exposed to a buck. They're allowed 2
misses and that may well be all the chances they'll get. If their mother is excellent,
they should be the same. If not....they're gone. It's a rare circumstance they'll
get that 3rd chance.
I can "predict" what a doe will do AFTER she's had 4-6 litters...LOL. I'm cheatin' I know,
but I'm honest. WHO KNOWS what an untested rabbit will do? I surely don't. I can make a
pretty good guess, but that's about it. And I base those predictions on her maternal
heritage. "Good begets Good" and that's all we can honestly breed for. I've had some
superstar's among my working girls and I'm proud of them. I keep their daughters and
one or two sons (every so often) for future breeding stock or possible sales to potential
growers. I sell what I would keep for myself, and I let the buyer make the choices.
I do my very best to "stack" the odds in my favor through breeding and selection of
superior qualities shown in the maternal side of the line.
# RK-45 is a 'smallish' doe that most would pass by. BUT.....take a look at her
hutch card and you'll see why she's there. She just had her 9th litter. Never less
than 8 kits born-8 kits saved...up to 11 kits born-10 kits saved. I believe she's
lost a grand total of two kits in a year and a half's production. I'm fixin' to pull
one or two of her daughters out for replacement or sale stock.
My bucks are part of the genetic family. They come from the same does that my
replacements are chosen from. I don't inbreed.....but I do Line-Breed and there's
not a flippin' thing wrong with that. I'll say this though, I'm super tough on my
selections when it comes to putting a buck in a replacement pen. I've raised really
good looking bucks, only to turn around and ship them out on the Snake-Train.
I "saw" something that I didn't quite like and POOF they're history. It took me
4 years and a dozen really nice bucks to find "ONE" that I was satisfied with out
of one of my top herd bucks. He's turning out to be pretty decent, but it's taken
him 2.5 years to earn my respect. I'm tough on the boys. LOL.
I'll wait a couple days before I reduce the litter count. I let Mother Nature cull for
me for the first few days. After that, I do my best to 'equalize' the sizes of the
kits. If I've got 2 or 3 real dandy's, I'll spot-dot a tattoo mark in their ear and
place them with a doe that's got 6 or less that might be one or two days older.
They'll do fine against the bigger kits. The really tiny kits, I'm forced to dispose
of them. It's hard to do so, but I'm not raisin' pets and I cannot afford the cage
space based upon sentimentality.
Grumpy.
