Questions on expanding

Rabbit Talk  Forum

Help Support Rabbit Talk Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Her Farmstead Rabbitry

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 30, 2023
Messages
151
Reaction score
217
Location
Marion, North Carolina
Tomorrow I am driving an hour away to purchase 16 rabbit cages. The cages are 4 cages that are 4 bays each. (Eeek, I'm so excited) So I have attached the listing for the cages. I have also attached a layout of where the different ages/genders will go and a drawing of what the set up will look like. And a drawing of a stand I will make to hang the hutches. I will make two stands. (I'm really sorry if it messes up, I have never attached anything on here before!) I have a 5 hole hutch and a tractor. My goal is to sell breeding stock and meat. The total cost of the stands and the cages would be $560. I have 3 working does and 2 working bucks. Rabbit Cages

My Questions
#1- Is it worth it to build a roof on the middle walk way?
#2- How should I do the automatic water system?
#3- I am thinking of adding another breed (or 2 lol:ROFLMAO:) . Which one should I add and why?
#4- Is $560 too expensive for a 16 cage expansion?
Just throw your opinions or improvements at me

The idea is that the stand would hang the cages and there would be a 5 foot walkway in the middle so I don't get rained on. There would be 2 stands butting against each other.
 

Attachments

  • Rabbitry Layout.pdf
    20.7 KB
  • IMG_20240109_133525.jpg
    IMG_20240109_133525.jpg
    200 KB
Last edited:
In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.
 
In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.
Thanks for the input. I hadn't thought of catching rain water. I think it would be really handy especially in the coming spring. I am definitely leaning towards a rain roof.
 
In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.
This is one of the most outstanding responses I've ever seen! :love:

I couldn't agree more with the roof. The more pleasant/less miserable it is to be near the rabbits, the more time you'll want to spend with them. Where I live, we not only have significant amounts of rain but also lots of snow, and a roof (and lights - we have a long dark) has made it S-O-O-O much nicer to do rabbit chores!

With so much of my year in the freezing zone, I can't use an automatic system without significant expense :(, but catching or at least diverting rainwater away from the rabbitry is pretty important. A key to keeping flies and smell down (and again, keeping it pleasant to walk around) is to keep things dry under the cages. Not only would the roof help with that, but a catchment system would too. I think @eco2pia has an enviable system. If you don't catch the rainwater, be sure to think about angling the roof and having gutters so that the water is directed away from the rabbitry. We had to dig small channels to keep water from soaking under the cages in our last place.

I don't know about NC, but $560 for a 16 hole addition sounds pretty good to me. Just buying the lumber for the stands would get to or pass that amount here. And most of the work is already done, so if you value your time, there's that.

As to adding another breed... if you can resist the temptation, I'll be impressed. Rabbit math, ya know? :ROFLMAO: I am biased and love my Satins, but Champagne D'Argents, Californians, American Sables, American Chinchillas, Silver Martens, and Rex are tops on my list, too. (Lots of Silver Fox for meat around these days, too, but I'm not partial to their coat type. I like sleek. :)) Satins and Rex, and to a lesser degree Silver Martens, will give you the most color variety, as Champagnes, Cals, Sable and Chins are each a single color. That can be advantageous, though, if you're raising rabbits to sell to 4H or FFAers for meat pens.
 
This is one of the most outstanding responses I've ever seen! :love:

I couldn't agree more with the roof. The more pleasant/less miserable it is to be near the rabbits, the more time you'll want to spend with them. Where I live, we not only have significant amounts of rain but also lots of snow, and a roof (and lights - we have a long dark) has made it S-O-O-O much nicer to do rabbit chores!

With so much of my year in the freezing zone, I can't use an automatic system without significant expense :(, but catching or at least diverting rainwater away from the rabbitry is pretty important. A key to keeping flies and smell down (and again, keeping it pleasant to walk around) is to keep things dry under the cages. Not only would the roof help with that, but a catchment system would too. I think @eco2pia has an enviable system. If you don't catch the rainwater, be sure to think about angling the roof and having gutters so that the water is directed away from the rabbitry. We had to dig small channels to keep water from soaking under the cages in our last place.

I don't know about NC, but $560 for a 16 hole addition sounds pretty good to me. Just buying the lumber for the stands would get to or pass that amount here. And most of the work is already done, so if you value your time, there's that.

As to adding another breed... if you can resist the temptation, I'll be impressed. Rabbit math, ya know? :ROFLMAO: I am biased and love my Satins, but Champagne D'Argents, Californians, American Sables, American Chinchillas, Silver Martens, and Rex are tops on my list, too. (Lots of Silver Fox for meat around these days, too, but I'm not partial to their coat type. I like sleek. :)) Satins and Rex, and to a lesser degree Silver Martens, will give you the most color variety, as Champagnes, Cals, Sable and Chins are each a single color. That can be advantageous, though, if you're raising rabbits to sell to 4H or FFAers for meat pens.
Thank you, I am not a huge fan of one color breeds, I like a little surprise so it doesn't get boring. Although I do like Silver fox ( creme/ champange d argent. There are not many satins or cremes or champages around here, so if I could get some do you think I would have a hard time selling them?
 
Thank you, I am not a huge fan of one color breeds, I like a little surprise so it doesn't get boring. Although I do like Silver fox ( creme/ champange d argent. There are not many satins or cremes or champages around here, so if I could get some do you think I would have a hard time selling them?
I wouldn't know how to predict sales opportunities in your area. Sometimes a novelty sells well for a while, but then interest peters out when it's no longer a novelty; other times, the new thing has real merits, and has staying power as the word gets out. But I can tell you that if you get a reputation for breeding high-quality rabbits of any breed, people will probably start to seek you out. ("Quality" includes meat type, growth rates, mothering abilities, health and temperament. Keeping pedigrees is another plus, but it's not critical to get pedigreed stock.) Most folks looking for meat rabbits usually start out wanting Cals or NZs, but if I can get some of our Satins into their hands, they usually come around. ;) Not only is Satin fur something you have to see and feel to believe, but our Satins are both gentle and competitive (i.e. very good meat type). It's a combination a lot of people come to appreciate.

So my first suggestion would be to go with whichever breed you find has the highest quality meat characteristics (but don't forget temperament).

I'm afraid that will probably rule out Creme D'Argents. There are not many people breeding them and in my experience they do not tend to be at all competitive in terms of type. My daughter and I spent a fair amount of time looking around with the thought of bringing some up here to AK, but there were none I was willing to spend any money on (and the breeders wanted a lot of money). We decided we'd make some ourselves out of Champagnes, which are more common and as a result have much better type. Champagnes still are not winning a ton of Best in Shows, but IMO they're a much better meat prospect than the Cremes. Many of our Champagnes have tremendous growth rates as well. They do vary a lot more than our Satins in that regard, but I've been breeding the Satins with pretty tight criteria for a long time.

Satin (12 varieties) and Rex (16) offer the most recognized colors in the meat breeds, which can be helpful in sales. NZs are recognized in 5 varieties, but some of those don't play well together (red and blue, for instance).

Another consideration is choosing a breed that is compatible with/complementary to what you are already working with. I don't know which breed you have currently, but if your line has a weak spot (shoulders, loin, depth, size, etc) you might choose a breed that offers some improvement there. I have done a bit of crossbreeding to improve several breeds (Cals x Satins, Satins x Champagnes, and Polish x Mini Satins). It only takes 3-4 generations to get back to pedigreed rabbits. Satin coats and Champagne silvering are mutations that are fairly easy to recover, but I have found that in outcrossing Rex, it takes a lot longer to recover a good quality rex coat.

In adding another breed, you'll end up with more experience with different breeds and colors, and a wider base of rabbit knowledge. However many breeds you have, the main thing is to cull hard for the characteristics you want, because you get what you breed.
 
I wouldn't know how to predict sales opportunities in your area. Sometimes a novelty sells well for a while, but then interest peters out when it's no longer a novelty; other times, the new thing has real merits, and has staying power as the word gets out. But I can tell you that if you get a reputation for breeding high-quality rabbits of any breed, people will probably start to seek you out. ("Quality" includes meat type, growth rates, mothering abilities, health and temperament. Keeping pedigrees is another plus, but it's not critical to get pedigreed stock.) Most folks looking for meat rabbits usually start out wanting Cals or NZs, but if I can get some of our Satins into their hands, they usually come around. ;) Not only is Satin fur something you have to see and feel to believe, but our Satins are both gentle and competitive (i.e. very good meat type). It's a combination a lot of people come to appreciate.

So my first suggestion would be to go with whichever breed you find has the highest quality meat characteristics (but don't forget temperament).

I'm afraid that will probably rule out Creme D'Argents. There are not many people breeding them and in my experience they do not tend to be at all competitive in terms of type. My daughter and I spent a fair amount of time looking around with the thought of bringing some up here to AK, but there were none I was willing to spend any money on (and the breeders wanted a lot of money). We decided we'd make some ourselves out of Champagnes, which are more common and as a result have much better type. Champagnes still are not winning a ton of Best in Shows, but IMO they're a much better meat prospect than the Cremes. Many of our Champagnes have tremendous growth rates as well. They do vary a lot more than our Satins in that regard, but I've been breeding the Satins with pretty tight criteria for a long time.

Satin (12 varieties) and Rex (16) offer the most recognized colors in the meat breeds, which can be helpful in sales. NZs are recognized in 5 varieties, but some of those don't play well together (red and blue, for instance).

Another consideration is choosing a breed that is compatible with/complementary to what you are already working with. I don't know which breed you have currently, but if your line has a weak spot (shoulders, loin, depth, size, etc) you might choose a breed that offers some improvement there. I have done a bit of crossbreeding to improve several breeds (Cals x Satins, Satins x Champagnes, and Polish x Mini Satins). It only takes 3-4 generations to get back to pedigreed rabbits. Satin coats and Champagne silvering are mutations that are fairly easy to recover, but I have found that in outcrossing Rex, it takes a lot longer to recover a good quality rex coat.

In adding another breed, you'll end up with more experience with different breeds and colors, and a wider base of rabbit knowledge. However many breeds you have, the main thing is to cull hard for the characteristics you want, because you get what you breed.
I got to say this is also one of the most outstanding posts!. I am thinking satins or a larger lop. Did you end up making the cremes?
 
I got to say this is also one of the most outstanding posts!. I am thinking satins or a larger lop. Did you end up making the cremes?
Glad it was helpful!

Of course I think Satins are wonderful, but as I've mentioned elsewhere, some judges call them "satans," so pay attention to the temperament of any you consider buying. It seems to be a hazard in many of the meat breeds because breeders often select for characteristics other than temperament. Whatever breed you choose, I'd suggest you cull hard for temperament if you want to build a good brood stock business

I absolutely love French Lops, and raised them for a while when I was younger, but they are massive (the French SOP has a minimum of 11lbs for bucks, 11.5lbs for does, and no upper weight limit) with very heavy bone. They grow more slowly than a typical meat breed, and eat about like you'd expect...think small horse. :) I wish I could talk myself into them, but I can't afford them, either terms of space or feed!

English Lops have medium bone, and a semi-arch breed can be a good meat rabbit, but a friend who raises them has to work at keeping their ears out of trouble. In NC you probably won't have issues with them freezing like we do, but the ears seem to get in the way and are just a little more maintenance.

Mini Lops actually would be my choice of the lops as a meat breed. At 4.5 -6.5 lbs they'd qualify as a small meat rabbit, similar to a Florida White, and the good ones are built like a brick. Show quality Minis do have heavy bone, but honestly, that's doesn't make a gigantic difference unless you're working on mass meat production where you have to be as efficient as possible. And you can find Minis with lighter bone; they won't do well on the show table, but they also shouldn't have any health issues related to their frame not being able to support their weight, like the French would.

The Cremes are in progress. It's going to take at least three generations because I have to replace self black with non-extension agouti, and get them back to homozygous for silvering. The red NZ buck I was going to use went away, so I'm using my Satins, which will throw a wrench in due to the satinized coats that will probably pop up down the line. However, the first generation is looking pretty nice. Here's Hot Cross Bun:
Hot Cross Bun 6-27-23.JPG
I was pleased to see that even though his silvering is not quite up to the Champagne SOP, it is still extensive even in the heterozygous state. This photo was taken when he was about 14 weeks old, so his color has continued to develop, but I don't think his head is ever going to look correct. Unfortunately I didn't get any chestnuts, which is what I need to get orange. Like I said, it's going to take at least 3 generations, but this buck's type is already better than his Champagne sire's, and light years better than any Creme I've seen. He also had a great growth profile, passing 5lbs by 8 weeks.
 
Last edited:
In Seattle, the rain roof is soooo worth it. I wasn't going to build one and I am so grateful that I was talked into doing it. I don't know much about NC weather, but ask yourself: when I am sick and have the flu and rabbits must be fed, will I be glad of the roof? will mud happen under the cages/in the path without it? do I need it for shade in the summer? Remember to give yourself space for things like wheelbarrows. The length of a rake handle. Stuff like that!

Also, if you build it tall, you can catch rainwater for an auto water system. I put a trio of 55g barrels on a stand like a mini water tower. the thing to remember is that down is easy but up won't work without power, so the bottom of your cages is the bottom of your water catchment, unless you get fancy with a solar pump and float--I am not that fancy yet.

My auto water system is just gutters to the barrels which feed lines connected to crocks mounted on the cages. the rabbits push the button in the crock when they drink and it refills. It works without my attention about 320 days out of the year. In our dry summers I sometimes have to refill the barrels (mostly because I also water the ducks and chickens out of the same barrels) and in the winter I have a few days where everything is frozen and I have to hand water in metal crocks/dog dishes.
Can I ask a couple questions? We are planning our water system. I want to feed from a rain barrel because our water bill base is already expensive. I understand that you use it to water other animals but do you have an idea how muxh water they drink? I'm in nc and according to Google we get 2‐4 inches of rain a month. Do you have tops on your rain barrels? Currently we do not. We have bettas in 2 as a test. I wondering if we need to buy a new container with a lid to prevent algae. I see that some people use a 5 gallon bucket but I'm wondering if it's easier or how often it would need to be filled. We are planning to start with 2 or 3 does and a buck. I'm just really wondering how much water to expect them to drink and whether or 55 Gallon drum would be take too long to drink and become nasty we do plan to upgrade to at least 5 does and 2 bucks with litters frequently.
 
Can I ask a couple questions? We are planning our water system. I want to feed from a rain barrel because our water bill base is already expensive. I understand that you use it to water other animals but do you have an idea how muxh water they drink? I'm in nc and according to Google we get 2‐4 inches of rain a month. Do you have tops on your rain barrels? Currently we do not. We have bettas in 2 as a test. I wondering if we need to buy a new container with a lid to prevent algae. I see that some people use a 5 gallon bucket but I'm wondering if it's easier or how often it would need to be filled. We are planning to start with 2 or 3 does and a buck. I'm just really wondering how much water to expect them to drink and whether or 55 Gallon drum would be take too long to drink and become nasty we do plan to upgrade to at least 5 does and 2 bucks with litters frequently.
Ok. That's a lot of questions.

My cages would go through a 32oz water bottle in a day or two--moms with kits got 2 or 3 bottles. I always wanted to be sure I had a little extra, so it is probably closer to 20oz/day for a 10lb rabbit.

I have a 50gallon barrel hooked to my roof, and almost all of the barrel is above the waterline--so I had to build a mini water tower. During the summer here it is pretty dry, and I have to fill the barrel about 1x/month if there is no rain at all, but I only have 4-8 adult rabbits at a time normally. Summer is when I have litters though!

I have 2 other barrels hooked to the first as overflow, I have changed the connections so that those other two now feed only the birds, allowing the whole 50 gallons to feed only rabbits. My roof area is about 16x8, or 128sqft, or 18,432 square inches. A 50 gallon barrel is 11550 cubic inches, so just over 1/2 inch of rain will completely fill the barrel. This is why I have 3 barrels and they all overflow into a series of stock tanks for my ducks--in winter it is almost constantly running over. With rain all summer, you would likely never need to fill if you have enough barrels/square feet.

Now about algae: I have blue barrels, and blue water lines. The barrels have tops with a small screened hole to let the gutter water in. there is no algae, nor mosquitos. NONE. We do have a type of bacteria here that is pinky brown. It grows in showers, puddles, everywhere, it is just endemic. It is harmless, sticks to the sides of the tank, and doesn't change the taste or clarity of the water or cause problems with water quality. I would drink from these barrels--maybe not lick the scuzzy side, but you get my point. You could cover your current barrels with plywood if you like, the idea is just to have it be dark. It would rot eventually tho.

I do get fir needles in gutters sometimes, and have to clear the gutters and screen every now and then. The pink bacteria can build up and then break off (usually after a freeze) and clog water lines, which can be deadly. Get in the habit of flipping the water nipple to be sure it is flowing on each cage every time you feed. I assume lines will be clogged after a freeze now, and I just blow them out--be sure you remember to put in a shut off valve right at the barrel so that you can work on your system without emptying it.

Algae comes from nutrients and light (and water!). You get rid of one of those things and there won't be any algae. My stock tanks are green however, and have fish in them to take care of mosquitos. I favor feeder goldfish, they are cheap and can survive my winters. In NC you have more options.
 
Ok. That's a lot of questions.

My cages would go through a 32oz water bottle in a day or two--moms with kits got 2 or 3 bottles. I always wanted to be sure I had a little extra, so it is probably closer to 20oz/day for a 10lb rabbit.

I have a 50gallon barrel hooked to my roof, and almost all of the barrel is above the waterline--so I had to build a mini water tower. During the summer here it is pretty dry, and I have to fill the barrel about 1x/month if there is no rain at all, but I only have 4-8 adult rabbits at a time normally. Summer is when I have litters though!

I have 2 other barrels hooked to the first as overflow, I have changed the connections so that those other two now feed only the birds, allowing the whole 50 gallons to feed only rabbits. My roof area is about 16x8, or 128sqft, or 18,432 square inches. A 50 gallon barrel is 11550 cubic inches, so just over 1/2 inch of rain will completely fill the barrel. This is why I have 3 barrels and they all overflow into a series of stock tanks for my ducks--in winter it is almost constantly running over. With rain all summer, you would likely never need to fill if you have enough barrels/square feet.

Now about algae: I have blue barrels, and blue water lines. The barrels have tops with a small screened hole to let the gutter water in. there is no algae, nor mosquitos. NONE. We do have a type of bacteria here that is pinky brown. It grows in showers, puddles, everywhere, it is just endemic. It is harmless, sticks to the sides of the tank, and doesn't change the taste or clarity of the water or cause problems with water quality. I would drink from these barrels--maybe not lick the scuzzy side, but you get my point. You could cover your current barrels with plywood if you like, the idea is just to have it be dark. It would rot eventually tho.

I do get fir needles in gutters sometimes, and have to clear the gutters and screen every now and then. The pink bacteria can build up and then break off (usually after a freeze) and clog water lines, which can be deadly. Get in the habit of flipping the water nipple to be sure it is flowing on each cage every time you feed. I assume lines will be clogged after a freeze now, and I just blow them out--be sure you remember to put in a shut off valve right at the barrel so that you can work on your system without emptying
Algae comes from nutrients and light (and water!). You get rid of one of those things and there won't be any algae. My stock tanks are green however, and have fish in them to take care of mosquitos. I favor feeder goldfish, they are cheap and can survive my winters. In NC you have more options.
Thank you! I feel a lot better now. I was also thinking of a mini water tower. I was looking at pumps and my husband said "we don't need that. I can build what we need."

I'm so excited. I've built the wire cages and we are going tonight for him to buy frame and hopefully from materials. I honestly have zero clue how much money he has to spend or what he plans to have done. I'm just excited to see God's plans. I found someone selling 3 does for 20 each or all 3 for 50. And a buck born in February. If they are all still available we may have rabbits next week.

And thanks! I was looking at blue tubing and wondering if it was dark enough.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top