visiting a rabbitry

[MamaSheepdog]

I haven't advertised rabbits for sale in a long time, but when I did I always allowed the buyers to come to our ranch.

Since we are 50 miles out of town (Bakersfield), it is rather a big commitment of time and energy to come out here. I am not worried about ARA wackos, mostly because we live in an agricultural community. We are also almost always home, and if we are not they would have to run the gauntlet of seven dogs.

However- I sell puppies as well, and am always pleased to show off all of our other critters to the families that visit. They come from all over California and as far away as New Mexico, and I haven't had issues with any of them either. I think it is a combination of my down to earth approach and the fact that my animals are clean, healthy, and obviously well cared for.

I head off problems with children by explaining to them how they need to behave before we head over to the yard where all of our animals (except the dogs) are housed. I enjoy taking the rabbits out for them to touch so they can feel the difference in the fur of the Rex and Satins, and it is fun to see the reactions of parents and children alike when they get to see popples of all ages.

As for bio-security, I feel that I am just as likely to track something home as anyone else. I do make sure that the puppy buyers know that they are not allowed to visit here after viewing other puppies on the same day, but other than that I don't worry about it. Parvo, like Pasteurella, is pretty much everywhere.

I show my rabbits as well, often carpooling to shows with fellow breeders, so my rabbits are often in close contact with rabbits from many different barns. When we went to the Convention in Texas, we transported over 100 rabbits in a horse trailer, who were then all exposed to the 20,000+ rabbits there. Aside from slight weight loss in a few of them, all of them came home just as healthy as when they left.

The bacteria(there are many strains) that cause Pasteurellosis are said to survive about three days outside of a body, and it can become airborne.

Source? According to The Technical Sheet published by Charles River Research Models and Services:

P. multocida is a fragile organism, which does not survive long outside a host (<24 hours in transport media at room temperature).

technical-sheet-re-pasteurella-multicoda-t15511.html

 

[Zass]

My info was just what I've read on various webpages, so I have no scientific source.

Thank you for clearing that up MSD.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Thank you for clearing that up MSD.

My pleasure. I was thrilled when I found that out!

 

[MaggieJ]

I first encountered the practice of bio-security for one's animals back in 2003 when we picked up our first batch of day-old Speckled Sussex chicks from a local hatchery specializing in heritage breeds. We have since bought all our birds from this breeder and he is rigid in enforcing his bio-security measures to the point of wearing different shoes and clothing when he is away from home than he wears when tending his own birds. I don't blame him . . . why should be put his birds and a huge financial investment at risk to gratify the desires of eager buyers? It's not a petting zoo he's running.

My rabbitry was always "semi-closed". I rarely brought in new stock and I limited visitors by weighing risks against advantage. If my rabbits had been wiped out, I'd have been able to buy new stock for very little money -- they were just local meat mutts. But I had worked with them and liked them and did not want to place them at great risk.

Those who show rabbits know the risks and weigh them accordingly. Chances of one's rabbits being exposed to something horrendous at a show may not be huge, but having a quarantine area for returning rabbits - especially in cases where they have been located near sneezing or snotty animals - is a good idea.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

I strongly believe you need to have a quarantine area. Even if you don't show or don't bring new stock into the rabbitry for years, you still need a place to put animals that get sick, injured, or aren't acting right.

I tell my buyers that rule one when an animal get sick is to get it away from all the others. Thus the need for some place to quarantine them. Now the trick is to avoid the temptation to "temporarily" put that area into use. Or to go buy another rabbit just so that you have something to quarantine!

 

[wamplercathy]

I'm just starting out but am very greatful to the rabbitries in my area. They allow me the opportunity to visit, talk, and explain the way they do things. If you get the chance it's well worth the time to visit.

For me I would allow visits because its the best learning tool available to newbies. But keep in mind that there are nuts out there. ARAs for one. People I've known most of my life want to "save" my buns from me. They look at me as if I'm a monster despite what they truly know about me. Rabbits have a funny way about them, that makes people crazy. Either they're OK with your choice or Not. Unlike most things though, if they are not ok with rabbits being raised for meat they voice it loudly and for the world to know. Going to the extreme of releasing your buns into the wild. Which we all know is a death sentence.

If we could just get them to be this passionate about the dog fighting problem, animal abuse, and spay and neutering the world would be a better place.

 

[WhWRabbitry]

I have allowed people to come to our rabbitry to pick up rabbits they are purchasing, or if show stock to choose which one they want in advance of the pick up date.
I can totally see why some would choose not to. This is just why I have chose to allow people to come.

First my husband wasn't fond of the gas miles of me meeting up with people. 2nd, I don't use a cell phone so if I was at a location to meet up and the people were running late they could not contact me.
3rd reason, most of the people that purchase from us are driving a couple hours (or more) to pick up their rabbit. I figure if they are making that investment in time for pick up they should get to come to our rabbitry rather than a parking lot somewhere. This just seems more personal.
Lastly, unfortunately a breeder's website, emails, & phone conversations can be very deceiving. A person who sounds very professional and responsible may be housing these "prized" rabbits in very crowded, unsanitary conditions. It can be shockingly sad! I want people to be able to see the conditions of our rabbitry and know firsthand that we are not misrespresenting ourselves.

 

[HOWsMom]

I usually let other breeders in, if asked, and it can be arranged at a time when my husband is going to be home. I generally enjoy showing my rabbits to other breeders.

I understand that is a weak point in biosecurity, and must accept that there will be occasional disease culls in my herd. As I intend to show eventually, I strive for high disease resistance instead of zero exposure.

If not specifically asked by a breeder... I've taken to meeting elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if it's going to be a pet buyer.

I understand biosecurity, and viral/bacterial transport risks where animals are concerned.

What I don't understand, and I'm hoping you guys will clear this up for me, is why it seems that many breeders look down on those who - like myself and Bug4H - are looking for a pet rabbit.

How are we more of a biosecurity risk than a breeder, or less worthy of a sale ?

 

[MaggieJ]

I usually let other breeders in, if asked, and it can be arranged at a time when my husband is going to be home. I generally enjoy showing my rabbits to other breeders.

I understand that is a weak point in biosecurity, and must accept that there will be occasional disease culls in my herd. As I intend to show eventually, I strive for high disease resistance instead of zero exposure.

If not specifically asked by a breeder... I've taken to meeting elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if it's going to be a pet buyer.

I understand biosecurity, and viral/bacterial transport risks where animals are concerned.

What I don't understand, and I'm hoping you guys will clear this up for me, is why it seems that many breeders look down on those who - like myself and Bug4H - are looking for a pet rabbit.

How are we more of a biosecurity risk than a breeder, or less worthy of a sale ?

I'm not sure why this seems to be the case. It is possible that some breeders worry that pet rabbit people may also be animal rights activists, since many seem outraged when rabbits are raised for other purposes. It may make them more cautious about opening their rabbitries.

I never sold rabbits for pets, because so many new rabbits owners (not you and Bug4H - you're the exceptions) buy rabbits on impulse without knowing how to care for them properly. When the rabbits stop being cute, they are are often ignored a lot of the time or else surrendered to shelters. It happens a lot, especially with Easter sales, and I never felt comfortable about sending a rabbit of mine off to face those kinds of odds.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

What Maggie just said.

A) Too many pet owners get all ARA on you when they find out what is meant by "meat rabbit", thinking your treatment of your animals is cruel and inhumane given that you keep them in cages and actually butcher and eat what you don't sell. All the while...

B) Too many pet owners get tired of trying to potty train their new pets, putting up with chewed computer and cable cords, scratching the h*ll out of their children when they try to pick them up like puppies, and when they reach their limit...

C) Too many pet owners either dump their unwanted rabbit in the nearest pet shelter, set the rabbit "free" to be killed by any number of predators, or sell the poor, sick, abused animal to someone else for $2. All of which ends up...

D) Giving people the impression that rabbits really aren't worth anything and making it difficult for legitimate breeders of quality animals to charge a fair price reflective of what their animals are worth.

Other than that, I don't really have any strong feelings about it... :lol:

As I said earlier, I still let people visit our rabbitry. However, I discourage people buying rabbits as pets.

 

[Dood]

I usually let other breeders in, if asked, and it can be arranged at a time when my husband is going to be home. I generally enjoy showing my rabbits to other breeders.

I understand that is a weak point in biosecurity, and must accept that there will be occasional disease culls in my herd. As I intend to show eventually, I strive for high disease resistance instead of zero exposure.

If not specifically asked by a breeder... I've taken to meeting elsewhere, ESPECIALLY if it's going to be a pet buyer.

I understand biosecurity, and viral/bacterial transport risks where animals are concerned.

What I don't understand, and I'm hoping you guys will clear this up for me, is why it seems that many breeders look down on those who - like myself and Bug4H - are looking for a pet rabbit.

How are we more of a biosecurity risk than a breeder, or less worthy of a sale ?

In my experience, most breeders of ________ (insert species) have a solid understanding of biosecurity measures and animal health in general while pet buyers question why I don't want them to have handled any other of ________ (insert species) 72 hours before they come to my home or why I ask about the health of their current pet or why I want them to only wear fresh out of the laundry clothes or they stare blankly when I ask them to leave their shoes in the garage and wear the boots I offer to go to the barn or etc..

I also question why a pet buyer is so interest in a purebred rabbit in the first place if they just want a companion. Are they being dishonest with me and plan on breeding? do they only want the pedigree for a prestige factor or think they are some how *better* ? or have they actually done their research and believe my breed is the best fit for them :shrug:

Not ALL pet buyers are ignorant of such things and not ALL breeders are knowledgable but when someone says they are a fellow breeder of _______ species for __ years I do tend to have an internal sigh of relief that I'm not starting from scratch on a discussion of the genetics, health and/or husbandry of my animal

 

[HOWsMom]

I must say that that is all very discouraging to read

I really hope you don't truly believe that ALL pet owners treat their animals - regardless of species - like that

 

[Dood]

Of course not, the majority of breeders started out as pet bunny owners

But SuburbanHomesteader has many valid points as every rabbits in a shelter came from someone who bred their rabbits - the Animal Rights Activists lump ALL breeders together, wether those produced from an "oops" mating or a those who have just a couple litters a year or those with 50+ animals in their herd

I too try and discourage rabbit ownership :mrgreen:

 

[MaggieJ]

I must say that that is all very discouraging to read

I really hope you don't truly believe that ALL pet owners treat their animals - regardless of species - like that

No, of course we don't believe that. Most of us have pets of one kind or another and we know the joys of a companion animal, regardless of species. It's just that rabbits are so appealing that they are more vulnerable to impulse buyers who have no idea about rabbit behaviour or needs.

It might help when contacting a breeder if you point out that you and your daughter are experienced pet owners, that you have done your research and joined a rabbit forum to learn in advance what rabbits require and that you consider taking on a pet to be a long-term commitment and you want to do it right.

 

[HOWsMom]

It might help when contacting a breeder if you point out that you and your daughter are experienced pet owners, that you have done your research and joined a rabbit forum to learn in advance what rabbits require and that you consider taking on a pet to be a long-term commitment and you want to do it right.

Believe me - I have We've been in contact with a breeder not too far from us, and have talked to her at least once or twice a week. <br /><br /> __________ Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:35 am __________ <br /><br />

Are they being dishonest with me and plan on breeding?

This would be a bad thing ?

 

[the reluctant farmer]

__________ Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:35 am __________

Are they being dishonest with me and plan on breeding?

This would be a bad thing ?

Some of the animals sold as pet rabbits are wonderful pets--but may not be desirable specimens of their breed, or are prone to weaker immune systems, had to be babied along, etc. Their personalities may be great, but their genetics won't strengthen future rabbits. When someone is adamant about getting a pedigreed "pet" and then turns around and breeds it, some of the stock may look like the breed standard but have hidden genetics that really should not be reproduced. These same folks will then sell their pet-quality kits as "pure bred" rabbits, and folks who don't know the breed standards will buy them and possibly keep the bad traits going. If the buyer holds to their word, keeps the bun as a 'pet only" animal, lets it have a wonderful life and enjoys it as a companion then lets its gene pool end when the animal dies, all is well. But if they breed them, future owners are going to be dealing with the same set of issues that led to culling the animal from a producing herd in the first place--and possibly introduce disease into a healthy herd.

Even in meat mutts, if you sell your worst stock for breeding (slow to grow, not heat tolerant, weaker immune system, high-strung or temperamental) instead of butchering them, you are contributing to poor genetics. That is poor herd management and contributes to the entire gene pool of domestic animals being susceptible to disease, reproductive problems and bad personality traits that are totally unnecessary.

Hope that helps.

 

[Dood]

Yes, being dishonest is a bad thing !

I sell pet and breeding stock, often for the same price, but I want the truth up front for the reasons the reluctant farmer pointed out

Most of my purebred and 6+ generation pedigreed Mini Lops are not show quality as I breed towards a more meaty but compact body type and NO SKIRT (one of my pet peeves with the MLop SOP :mrgreen: )

My purebred and pedigreed AmChins are full of undesirable recessive genes that I like to warn breeders about but that won't matter to pet buyers

And if I can I may suggest a breeder with stock that will actually win at shows and not waste the buyers time with a rabbit that is not of breeding quality

 

[HOWsMom]

Ah, I misunderstood what you meant - the joys of the written word. I agree that being dishonest is a bad thing, and I can understand being upset with being misled.
you make great points about why some animals are sold as "pet only" - and this information is extremely helpful
thank you.

 

[Zass]

My velveteen lops are a perfect example of genetics I wouldn't want perpetuated.
I only ever sold a few as pet-only rabbits when I was getting them sorted out.
They had all kinds of crazy genes, but they were easily the sweetest rabbits I've ever had the pleasure to be around and I really wanted to make some nice house pet rabbits.
The fact that they were not suitable for brood stock was all over my adds. The curl and kit balding genes were enough to make me wary.

After three litters (most of which were euthanized for a hard to identify illness) I finally realized it was most likely my doe who was singlehandedly contributing what might be a very harmful dominant gene, and not a disease pathogen that was affecting the kits.

I was looking at the possibility of her passing along a genetic susceptibility to lymphoma. She's always been in great health so finding that out was quite unexpected.

Anyway, someone bought two siblings from her second litter, labeled as pets only. As I was pulling away, I mentioned one last time that it would be a bad idea to breed them, and the look that person gave me!!!
She asked, "why not?"

I explained about the genetics...and saw the doe posted on a local classified a week later.
With no explanation as to how velveteen lops require special care, and no warning against breeding, just:
"V-lop, $x."
I wasn't fast enough to buy her back.

For some reason, people do not always choose to return a rabbit to a breeder, even when it's been made clear that the rabbits could always be returned for any reason.
(No refund, but I'll take responsibility for anything I've ever produced.)
Maybe the buyer wants to try and get their money back out of it, or maybe they are embarrassed to say they made a mistake...

 

[HOWsMom]

Some people are just total jerks, and honestly, don't have a clue !
But looking to buy a quality pet shouldn't paint us all in a bad light - because not ALL pet buyers are like that !

But it does give a new look at why I see on so many boards / FB groups etc, the seeming hatred of pet buyers