Peoples ideas about meat..

[Frecs]

Sorry, I have to say I feel the same way she does. I know exactly where meat comes from. I love animals, they taste yummy. A I feed the rabbits to the dogs, and take delight in watching them enjoy their food. But, I do not eat the meat I raise or at least so far, I can say I cannot eat the meat I raise. I can hardly eat the vegetables I raise, knowing I am growing them in manure and some insect walked all over them. I can't eat the fruit off my trees knowing some fly landed on it.

The very act of butchering the animal makes the meat repulsive to me. I don't even cook packaged meat, I find that handling the meat makes it repulsive to me. In general, food preparation takes my appetite away. I can really only deal with frozen stuff out of a bag.
I don't think anyone is cruel, I just can't do it, and I can't get past the basic meat items like chicken, beef, pork, lamb and whiting, salmon, tuna, shrimp. I don't eat game meats, squirrel, duck, etc. I would do what I needed to do to survive, but I don't have to, so I don't.

ummm...you do realize that bugs...and lots of toxins...have touched the fruits and vegetables you buy at the grocery store, right?

Your dogs are eating much healthier than you are. Your animals are much healthier than you are if all you eat are frozen dinners from the grocery store. I think you should love yourself at least as much as you love your animals and feed yourself at least as well as you feed them.

__________ Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:53 pm __________

I guess as a city person I feel why do things you don't have to if you don't have to? That's what keeps other people employed, especially when they can do it cheaper and more efficiently that most of us can? That's why we have these industries. That's why we have public schools. People don't want to raise their own kids. I think all women should stay home and teach their own kids, but millions of people send their precious babies off to be raised by a system void of morals, and wonder why their kids have no respect for anything. Now that seems hypocritical.

Why? Because one day (likely very soon) there won't be food at the grocery store to buy. Before that, the food will get quite expensive. Thus, if you feed all your vegetables, fruits, and rabbits to your dogs then you will starve and what will happen to the dogs? And, as for the rest...yeah, it does should a bit hypocritical...kudos for realizing it.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:05 pm __________<br /><br />

I think having discussions like this is very helpful to be able to see things from others' points of view. As long as we all remain civil and don't try to "convert" others to our own way of thinking, it's a wonderful exchange. I see expressions of ideas here that would never have occurred to me, so thank you all. Having new food for thought is always a good thing.

I always find it so interesting. I live in a world of convenience, right now, cookie cutter same way, need results. I am very well aware that this is not the only or the best way to live. I just can't see how I have any other choice. I am stuck. And I find that there are so many people who feel that way as well. Stuck in the system. I can't live without the system. In small increments, I have managed with some sacrifice of time and effort, to get my dogs out of the bag it eat it world. But I can't do that for my rabbits or myself, no matter how hard I try, without extending myself too far. And even as I spend my last hour before bed typing, with my breaded fish in the toaster oven, I've had no time today to spin or crochet. No time to do anything other than go to work and feed my fuzzies and nuke some food. Sometimes I wish the world would slow down so I could get off this ride. So my food is the least of my worries. But I also know that there are several problems I am having because of what's in the food. But I cannot become a vegetarian or a vegan because I could never get what I need that way.

I find the way that a lot (well it seems that way) of people on this forum are living, very appealing. You have freedoms to do things I never will be able to, and that allows you to make more conscientious choices about the things you do. It seems so simple to you, so practical, so harmonious. But for me it's just a dream.

Part of the difference between the "old ways" and the "new ways" is that back "then" we lived in multi-generational households or at least close to each other. And, families were larger in general. The reason for this was because no one person could do it all. A division of labor was necessary. Plus, during peak work times -- communities came together to help each other. There were "corn shucking" gatherings and barn raisings for example. Today, families are smaller and generations are further apart. There is little to no "community" to come together to help each other.

My mother and I have a division of labor. She handles the "inside stuff" and I handle the "outside stufff". That isn't to say we don't help each other when necessary but I can't do everything and nor can she. We really need at least one other person to make it more doable since I have to work an office job. But, we don't have that third person and so we do what we can.

Sky, you can't do everything by yourself so you are wise to prioritize and do what you can or wish to do.

 

[mystang89]

Here ya go:
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HAHAHAHAHA....erm, hahaha, that's funny.

But she can only eat it if it comes in plastic packaging, she can not eat if she has seen it as a living animal.

I was going to give a smart-Alic comment to that but after the above quote I have nothing further to add.

 

[skysthelimit]

I gotta say too, I don't believe everything I watch on TV. A lot of that stuff is staged for controversy. Idiotic people provide us with more salient memories, and make us think there are more of them than what there are. Day to day conversations lead me to believe that people know, feel bad and feel without choices. A lot of the people I meet, parents at the school, don't even have the cars to drive 70 plus miles to go to a local farm.



Yes it is convenience, a large portion of everything is. It's 6:30pm and I just got home. I feed dogs, bunnies and eat a quick meal. Convenience is very important.
Local farm isn't local, though it sounds like a cool idea. I will never be a person that cooks. It's something I always hated. I would have to take to make a trip, expend, a lot of gas, to get a large amount of meat that I'm not going to cook? Not when I can get a small package, one time use, five minutes away. If some farmer wants to start making delivers 90 miles into the city, I can make a small order for the amount of meat I eat in a month. I don't think he'd get his money's worth though. Coops are expensive, I don't eat enough by myself to justify the cost.

If I had to actually drive to Gerber's to get the meat for the dogs, they would not have it. It's about 90 miles away from me, I actually drive halfway once a month to get it. They eat better than me, but I don't cook for them either. It's raw. When there is no more for them, they will go away. The rabbits will go away. All this will cease. Either I will die or I will eat. But it has not come to that yet. The decision does not need to be made. I have always done what is necessary to deal with what life has dealt me.

__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:48 pm __________

Our whole culture is out of whack. Who cares about the seasons when you can get strawberries in January at the grocey store. Most people are just out of touch with nature in general and it is a very sad thing.

I don't buy out of season fruit. It's just plain nasty.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:56 pm __________<br /><br />

I only say never because at 35, with $70,000 of student loans to my name, and no credit to my name, I cannot afford to mortgage a house in the city much less afford a a house with acreage. And at this age, I can't physically farm by myself for much longer, my body will not be able to do it, I can just manage the property I am on now. I am already experiencing sharp back pains from ten years of building things myself, pouring concrete, digging posts, etc. Life gets real tight real quickly and the fairy tale becomes reality.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm 42, Shay's 52, and he's just recently gotten a job that isn't bull-work. He can still do plenty, but the work is catching up with him. I have hypermobile joints, so live with a measure of back and leg pain.

And here we are, starting over, and just starting (except for rabbits) to become more self-sufficient. :roll:.

And there's the rub. There are two of you and children, but only one of me. One of me cannot do the work it takes to feed only one of me throughout the growing season and into the winter months.

Frecs talks about the division of labor, and that's so true. There is no two- it's a single family mom, trying to either live off an insufficient income, or food assistance, buying generic, or what's quick to make for the time she has. My students are lucky if they eat cereal, I can think of none that have parents up making breakfast for them. The eat the crappy school food, then go home to a hot dog, mom or dad arrives in the evening, too tired to do anything. I have a Pop tart for breakfast, what every I can swallow for my 25 minute lunch and what ever I can wait for when I drag myself home.

I cannot even compare what going on with some goofball on TV to what is going on in the real world, for lots of people.

 

[bowbuild]

From what I understand we would not have the big brains we have without the protein animals supplied to us in the distant past. The other thing I have considered is we have these brains and are quickly destroying ourselves....maybe we should have been vegetarians as we may have had smaller brains, and been more in line with the natural process of the earth.....wait a minute!! If it wasn't for those darn tasty animals maybe the human race would have not advanced as far as it has....going to go butcher now...this is their fault...now I feel justified!

 

[Happy]

The other thing I have considered is we have these brains and are quickly destroying ourselves....maybe we should have been vegetarians as we may have had smaller brains, and been more in line with the natural process of the earth.....

But we lived in harmony with nature just fine until sociopaths convinced people that a sky wizard made them leader. Then those sociopaths moved to a new continent and massacred the inhabitants so that you and I could be born in towns with weird names like Yakima and Kennewick.

 

[5dognightfarm]

This was my Facebook status today:

"Today someone asked me how on earth anyone could possibly kill and eat an animal that they had raised and cared for since birth.
I am an omnivore. I need meat to survive and thrive. It is how my body is designed. Sure, I can close my eyes and pretend that chicken comes from the Meat Fairy in styrofoam packages, but I'm not that ignorant, thank cow. I know that something has to die in order for me to live. That's how life works, that's how nature works, that's how it has worked since the beginning of time.
When I kill, process, cook, and eat an animal that I have raised, I feel an immense surge of pride at my skills. I also am proud of myself for having taken such good care of that rabbit or chicken during its brief life because then I have no guilt over it. I give my rabbits and chickens every bite of feed they take. I keep their pens clean. I wash their dishes. I make sure that they stay healthy and well cared for. And then, at the end, when it's time for them to be processed, I ensure that they have a quick, humane, respectful death.
I respect my livestock. They are alive, and therefore deserve proper treatment. I appreciate the sacrifice of their lives, provided by God and by them.
So, how can I be such a cruel monster that I eat my own "pets"? They are not pets. They are my food. They are well cared for, properly raised and completely respected food.
"Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything." Genesis 9:3"

 

[Happy]

How could I eat my pet?

With a knife and fork.


Deal with it, veggies.

 

[skysthelimit]

They are not pets, at least not for long.

So rise kill and eat, or survive because you are the fittest, join the circle of life, whatever you want to call it. Sure I'd prefer to know what's in my food, but for now I'll settle for just eating. Don't offend by your eating, nor offend by your not eating, but be thank you have to eat, and if you get to eat what you want, be doubly thankful. Some of us have to eat our convictions to feed our stomachs.

 

[Miss M]

And there's the rub. There are two of you and children, but only one of me. One of me cannot do the work it takes to feed only one of me throughout the growing season and into the winter months.

I understand that. My mom had a friend in Virginia who knew where meat came from, but she would try to handle and cook it, and it would almost make her ill -- she'd end up throwing it out, because she couldn't eat it. We all have things that give us the willies. Mice and even rats cannot approach roaches or large spiders in the absolute grossness factor for me. You know what you can do, and you know what will need to be done to take care of yourself in hard times. I see so many families with kids that just have no clue. Hard times? This is America, it can't happen here. Even those that have the money to easily ensure a more stable future for their kids when times get hard aren't even trying.

The families you're talking about -- the single moms who rely completely on subsidized housing and school meals -- these are the people my husband walks among every day. He regularly inspects around 80 subsidized housing complexes. He sees so much. There are people who are genuinely needy, having come upon hard times, and this is where they've landed. So many of them, though, are just using the system to get all their needs taken care of, with no need for them to work. He sees gigantic TVs in apartments where they pay $5 rent, or no rent at all. It really wears on him.

 

[BroodCoop]

And there's the rub. There are two of you and children, but only one of me. One of me cannot do the work it takes to feed only one of me throughout the growing season and into the winter months.

I understand that. My mom had a friend in Virginia who knew where meat came from, but she would try to handle and cook it, and it would almost make her ill -- she'd end up throwing it out, because she couldn't eat it. We all have things that give us the willies. Mice and even rats cannot approach roaches or large spiders in the absolute grossness factor for me. You know what you can do, and you know what will need to be done to take care of yourself in hard times. I see so many families with kids that just have no clue. Hard times? This is America, it can't happen here. Even those that have the money to easily ensure a more stable future for their kids when times get hard aren't even trying.

The families you're talking about -- the single moms who rely completely on subsidized housing and school meals -- these are the people my husband walks among every day. He regularly inspects around 80 subsidized housing complexes. He sees so much. There are people who are genuinely needy, having come upon hard times, and this is where they've landed. So many of them, though, are just using the system to get all their needs taken care of, with no need for them to work. He sees gigantic TVs in apartments where they pay $5 rent, or no rent at all. It really wears on him.

This is all true, but... In large areas across the country people have few options. $10/hr jobs don't support families and that is all many people will make if they can get that.


Look at our threads about butchering rabbits. People say they can't pick-up a rabbit and bop it in the head. How limited are they when competing for a paycheck that will support a family?

The housing "bubble" (being kind) has made large areas into wastelands where only a few inhabitants are hanging on by a thread, no jobs in sight.

 

[camanojim]

I have yet to start my rabbitry, but I will be very soon. The main reson that i decided to raise rabbits for food is that I am convinced that our " just in time" food supply is going to stop funtioning at some point. I have also determind that rabbit and chickens is more sustainable for longer period of time than say cattle or hogs on the property I have. I hope to not only feed my family ( dogs included ), but many of my elderly and disabled neighbors should anything happen.

The queeziness of the kill and butcher will quickly go away when you are looking at your 3rd day without something to eat.

 

[Frecs]

I’m going to say this regarding “$10/hr jobs don't support families and that is all many people will make if they can get that.” You are right, it won’t…at least not without some sacrifices. Forget the smartphones, cable tv, Xboxes, etc. Above that…take the money they spend on junk food and buy seeds to grow food – even on a balcony this can be done—vacant lots. Get a trio of meat mutts and produce meat for the family – this is how people survived the Great Depression. Rather than take a “wow is me, I can’t help myself so let the government support me” attitude, people need to get off their lazy butts and learn to be self-sufficient again.

(And, before you jump on me for being uncompassionate – I earn $11.45/hr and care for my elderly mother. I’ve lived in much less and I’ve lived on more…self-sufficiency is a mindset not wage-regulated.)

 

[skysthelimit]

The queeziness of the kill and butcher will quickly go away when you are looking at your 3rd day without something to eat.

When it gets to that point, I will deal with it. But that's not now. And sometimes, there is a time to live, and a time to die. That will be the day I become a vegetarian.

__________ Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:04 pm __________

(And, before you jump on me for being uncompassionate – I earn $11.45/hr and care for my elderly mother. I’ve lived in much less and I’ve lived on more…self-sufficiency is a mindset not wage-regulated.)

I'm not talking about the folks that rob the system. That's for a whole other thread, and I've got some views on those folks.

Real people, real hard working people. I actually know some of them.
And it's a cycle that won't be broken by telling people how ignorant they are. It's just as easy to sit back and cast judgement on those that don't share your point of views, as it is for others to sit in their "helplessness". Both to me are wrong.

Growing a few veggies on a porch is not going to amount to much. It's a step. But when the "time" comes, unless you've got some real space, you won't be able to support yourself anyway. And at the rate my rabbits are reproducing, I would have starved already. I have not had a litter in 6 mos. I can't even get enough meat to feed the dogs rabbit once a month. When it bottoms out, the rabbits will do me no good, I don't have enough land to feed them without processed rabbit pellets. There are no guarantees.

I am not on one side or the other. I understand both sides, but I will never make a judgement that labels anyone as stupid, blind, or incompetent. Not everyone can bear the same burden as you can, some are weaker. If you do it, do it. If I can't, then I won't, and if I perish, then so be it. The reality is everyone can't or won't, which is the same thing to me.

 

[Happy]

Your attitude doesn't match your username, Skysthelimit.

 

[skysthelimit]

Your attitude doesn't match your username, Skysthelimit.

Sorry to disappoint.
It's a username,from a song, not a life motto, nothing special to it. I could have used my real name if it wasn't already taken. If I had to match it my username would be Life Knows How To Bite You. I prefer to look at the world the way it is, not the way it was, or what I want it to be.


On a previous thread, I made it very clear my reasons for raising rabbits, and it wasn't for my own consumption. Being able to feed them to the dogs is really a way to ensure I don't breed myself out of the little space I have. I quickly realized it would never really be enough meat to make a dent in my dog food budget. Actually my expenses have increased dramatically, and I would do better to get rid of all of the rabbits.

They are just for passing the time. Hobbies.

Besides the fact that you all are very interesting people, for the most part this thread seems a bit judgmental and narrow minded. It's one thing to say people should learn and experience where there food comes from from start to finish. It's totally another thing to say they are ignorant, dumb, blind, scary, sick, because they would rather not handle the blood and guts themselves. It's nasty and some people can't deal with it. That's their business. Or because they are too busy doing other things to grow food or drive miles to find "humanely" raised food.
I, and millions of other people, just can't do what you are doing, even if we wanted to. Or their priorities lie elsewhere. Or we don't want to. So don't hold us to your convictions, or judge us harshly. In my head I know why people get all worked up about it, build religions around it. But in my heart, it's not that high on the grand scheme of things.

I've already said too much, I'm done. I will bow out gracefully. Until my rabbits start breeding again, I don't have anything useful or positive to say on any matter anyway.

 

[mystang89]

Everyone has there own reasons for raising rabbits whether that be for meat of pleasure. That's why this forum has both worlds. Either way, there isn't any need to take shots at people.

@ Cattle Cait --> I like you facebook comment, very similar to how I think.

 

[Miss M]

It is true that there are almost always things that we can do to improve our circumstances.

Skysthelimit has pretty well outlined and gone into great detail about being stuck right now. Sometimes, that is actually the case. She is not the only one on this forum who is stuck in a situation that does not allow her to do everything that she would like to be able to.

In her situation, there is only so much she can do to prepare for hard times. I've tried that in an apartment. I squirreled away dry and canned goods in every available square inch of space I could find. Eventually (and it doesn't take long in an apartment), you run out of places to put more stuff. We were blessed with an opportunity to escape (just as my husband's job was turning upside-down), when my uncle invited us to live with him. And then again, when we were able to buy our new home. A situation like that is a dream for her, just like it once was for me. I never saw this coming.

She admitted to an uncommon but real aversion to eating meat that she has handled. I'm sure that all of us have things that cause very similar reactions in us. She has already thought about what she's going to do should things get really difficult.

In short, it's easy to sit at a computer a thousand miles away, and judge the life of someone you've never met. We may all have had our trials, but none of us has walked in her particular shoes.

Please return to the original topic, or I will have to lock this thread.

 

[Happy]

We've been talking about meat and people's reaction to it. That is the original topic. Several people have explicitly stated that they're not talking about Sky, but other people with more vapid reasons to be averted to meat. Even my own comment was misconstrued as a negative judgment about her rabbits when I stated that I have no time for such nonsense like judging strangers. I merely was pointing out that it's a bit ironic to have that kind of a name with such a defeatist attitude. The only one here who has posted anything off the subject of the OP is sky herself.

 

[MaggieJ]

Your attitude doesn't match your username, Skysthelimit.

I merely was pointing out that it's a bit ironic to have that kind of a name with such a defeatist attitude.

Happy, you may not have meant anything by it, but your comment struck a nerve with me. okeeye:

Sky is in a difficult situation. A lot of us have been there: "stuck in the city, still going nowhere." It is hard not to get discouraged. I had a rural childhood but the city expanded and gobbled it up by the time I was twelve. I'll spare you the whole sad story, but I didn't manage to escape until I was 51. So I can empathize with other people who are stuck.

 

[-HRanchito]

I don't know if everyone realizes that Skysthelimit is a school teacher -- an urban school teacher. I'm a charter school teacher, and I can relate to the lack of time to do anything....but at least when I go to work, I have colleages and parents who back me up and kids who act respectfully and face consequences when they don't. It's something I know doesn't exist in most urban schools -- even the local, rural, public schools are downright dangerous...backstabbing teachers, kids who get in fights, parent who don't give a rip....

I just read an article the other day about how so many vegans are causing clearcutting and poverty in Peru --because everyone wants to grow quinoa to sell to the Americans. Most Peruvians can't even afford to eat their own staple crop now. Some vegans like to sit on their high horses about how they are helping save the planet, but as Sky said, everything has a price.

Maybe some of us make a difference by going vegan, or planting a garden, or raising a few animals, but Sky is making a difference by getting up in the morning and walking into that battlezone of a profession and changing some lives -- so they don't weigh on our prison systems and government aid in later life. So lay off guys! As far as i'm concerned, that impact is worth a hundred meat trios.