Peoples ideas about meat..

[skysthelimit]

Funny, I have a hard time eating chicken. Especially anything not deep fried or breaded. It looks and feels a lot like flesh to me. After enough necropsies, raw chicken meat looks a lot like the cadavers I've handled. Red meat is easier for me to eat.

 

[trinityoaks]

Well, you can't sell GMO here without saying it's GMO on the label.

There was a proposal last fall in the U.S. state of California to require labelling of all GMO foods, but the big agricultural companies (Monsanto, etc.) spent ungodly amounts of money to scare people into voting against it, and it didn't pass. :evil:

 

[Happy]

I LOVE this thread! I personally have a moral obligation to be as involved in the handling of my own nutritional intake as I reasonably can. For me, this meant sacrificing a city life to move on to a one acre homestead 7 miles from anything resembling a gas station or grocery store, and 3000 miles from home to boot! That said, I don't put my morals on to others, and that means I don't tell others they have to follow my system of morals. I hate "you should only eat meat you raised yourself" as badly as I hate "It's evil the way you kill those little creatures". If you think it's evil that I stroke a bunny behind the ears before smashing its brainstem with a framing hammer, then call me Satan. I'm not dealing with a jittery carcass because you think it's odd that I treat it like royalty while slaughtering it. Besides, I think it's evil the way you can let that thing be murdered for your next meal without giving it the courtesy of looking it in the eye beforehand, so we're even.

 

[skysthelimit]

In our Western culture, we are immortal. So to acknowledge death, in any form, and to recognize that living, sentient beings must die on order for us to live, would dispel the illusion of perpetual youth and immortality. We have removed the faces from our food, as we have removed the concept of God from our cultural language. We create institutions for the elderly, ill and disabled so that they are not a part of the everyman's daily life - not our direct responsibility. Our societies do not want to acknowledge that suffering exists because we exist; it is just so much easier to veil the hard truth of mortal existence in some form of plastic - physical, or psychological.

Now I totally agree. Supposedly we are enlightened, intelligent beings, and we have no need to even eat animals anymore like the barbaric hunter and gathers of the past. That's what someone said to me on a yahoo group. Seriously? There are no laws of science or religion (except Hindu religions) that prohibit the eating of animals. As a matter of fact, it is the very law of nature, and according to that, we are at the top of the food chain.

Synthetics have replaced the naturals in many applications, synthetic foods as well, and people would lead you to believe that the harvesting of the naturals damages the planet, when it is really the residue of the synthetics that does the most damage.

 

[Miss M]

I find the way that a lot (well it seems that way) of people on this forum are living, very appealing. You have freedoms to do things I never will be able to, and that allows you to make more conscientious choices about the things you do. It seems so simple to you, so practical, so harmonious. But for me it's just a dream.

Don't give up, Sky... not too long ago, that was my reality. I never saw this coming!

I do still buy a good bit of our meat at the grocery store. Mostly at Winn Dixie BOGOfree sales. It's what I can afford. I want to get to the point where I'm not buying much meat. I want to raise enough rabbits to trade with neighbors.<br /><br />__________ Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 pm __________<br /><br />

Besides, I think it's evil the way you can let that thing be murdered for your next meal without giving it the courtesy of looking it in the eye beforehand, so we're even.

Some of us are still working on it, Happy.

 

[Jared77]

Its priorities. We have a big garden because I enjoy getting my hands dirty but its also cost effective for us. For what it costs per seed to get how many tomatoes, or cucumbers or whatever its well worth it for us. Its also why we can A LOT. Again it cuts costs. My wife and I made our own baby food from the food we grew, got from the U-picks and bought at the Farmers Markets. We saved hundreds of dollars doing that instead of paying a dollar a jar for baby food, AND its not as healthy as what we made. The only thing we added was steam to soften and puree to our daughter's food. And with the rest of our kids we'll do the same thing. Yes its work but its important to us.

I hunt. I shoot does, because I can't eat the antlers of a buck. I'm not opposed to shooting a buck but if a doe comes in without a yearling (that years fawn) following her Ill put her down. It feeds my family. Same with shooting a hen duck. Its legal and while I don't target them specifically if they come in and its take her or not have the meat your darn right the guns up and I'm pulling the trigger.

I gave up training hours and hours and traveling all over to compete with my German Shepherds in Schutzhund because I couldn't justify the investment I was putting into it. The money, the hours training, meeting with others 2-3x a week to train with them locally, then be gone from Friday afternoon/evening till the wee hours Monday morning traveling to a trial to compete. Those were great times, I had a lot of fun, and learned a lot but at the same time it meant taking away from something else. Its all about priorities. Once I found out my wife was pregnant I got out of the sport. I placed my dog in a great working home and focused on my family. I knew I couldn't keep doing what I was doing. It wouldn't be fair to my family to be gone, and would only serve to frustrate the dog I was training which wasn't fair and that could create problems. Now I have a Golden Retriever out of hunting stock. He's a member of the family, lives inside, he's my daughter's playmate, my favorite hunting buddy, and he's my constant companion. And yes we train together when time permits. I've competed with him a few times and he's got what it takes to get his Master Hunter title and he will eventually when the times right. Last year we didn't step onto a trial field. Other things were more important.

Its also why I plan on keeping a very limited number of breeding stock when we get this rabbit project off the ground. They are there to produce meat and manure for my garden. That's how I justify having them. Nothing wrong with pet rabbits, and I'm sure we'll have a couple too. But the main reason I want them is meat and the manure for the garden. They are quiet, easy to manage and easy to maintain a breeding population. As a resource to feed my family it doesn't get any better than that.

My family understands where things come from and what it takes to get what we get. We don't revel in death but they also know if we don't kill and process then its not available because something had to give up its life to be turned into burger, or bacon, or salami etc.

I understand the detachment and compartmentalizing factor. I plan on having all the same color rabbits or limited colors when we start our program. This way there's no irrational reasoning to spare one because of looks. That's a very shallow reason not to process something that was bred with that purpose in mind. "Oh look at the pattern on that broken little boy!" I don't need another male but that also removes the temptation to give in and agree to have one more hopping around. Pets are fine I'm not opposed to that at all, and sure if the kids want to keep one back that's fine but at the same time I'm not going to keep every single one that catches our eye. And if I'm selling the "too pretty to eat" ones as pets then I have to produce that many more litters to get to the total number of lbs of meat we need to sustain us for the year. Where does it end?

Mind you we're producing for us. I don't have any intention of going commercial. Sure if someone I know wants some Ill gladly sell them some or work something out, but that's not what we have in mind when we first agreed to this project. We just want to eat better.

As far as the GMO non-GMO foods go, can the non-GMO producers produce enough to make a living off of? And can they produce enough to keep costs down? Nobody is going to buy a 20 dollar bottle of soup because it was made with all non-GMO sourced food. Sure the markets there but is it a big enough market? Look at the whole green energy movement, and hybrid cars. Nobody is flocking to the dealerships and home improvement stores to get either. The upfront costs is too prohibitive.

That extra cost to get non-GMO food, or even organic has to come from somewhere in the budget. And no offense I'd but I'm just going to continue raise my own non-GMO foods (where I can afford to) and use organic practices and get my food for a fraction of a penny on the dollar than have to spend big bucks to get some thing at the grocery store.

 

[Miss M]

I'm looking forward to starting to plant in a few weeks. We just moved here, so we don't have an established garden. I want to raise as many of our vegetables as possible.

 

[Zab]

Skysthelimt: I get the feeling that you read my post to ''everyone should always watch their food die'' since you talk about time and possibilities etc..
Now try to remember the situation where this example happened: She was on a farm in a reality show and required to watch. She didn't have to forsake any duty or try to squeese it into a tight scheduale or trying to find a place to see it - it was all served to her. And she still couldn't see it. And shes still going to buy tons of meat as long as it'äs packaged nicely.
She could've watched and decided not to eat anyway, if it's the yucky part of it being in a real world with bacteria that bothered her.

I don't blame everyione who has never seen a kill and still eat meat. I think it would be really good for a bunch of people to see it for real, but I don't say they should prioritate that and drive out to a farm or something.

You say you can't eat it - that's fine. But you have seen enough to really realize what meat is. I get the feeling that your reasons of not eating it doesn't have anything to do with her reasons. I'm honest now but I don't think it's healthy to be as afraid of bacteria/bugs as you write you are (or as I read it I guess), but it's a different thing, with a different core than this. It's not as much blinding yourself to the fact that animals die for us to eat. You just don't like seeing food being anywhere else than on a plate, ready to eat, because you don't want to think of where it has been - am I right on this?

What I find scary is that people prefer to let animals suffer - realize that they prefer it that way - in order to let themselves stay blind to the meat they see in the store. When they have the chance of getting healthy happy meat and have all the possibilitis in the world to see the clean process, but chose not too because they can't see it as a living animal and then be food ("It was a chicken and now it's food.. It doesn't work that way for me. They come in stores and never was an animal in my eyes" her quoute) and they prefer not to see it - to stay blind to it and keep eating lots of meat. Not only meat like most people, but more meat than the avrage person. She chose to stay ignorant, very aware of that being her choice and to some level aware that it cause more suffering to the meat she chose to eat. She decided that she wants to not burst her wrong bubble that meat are made in stores. That's not healthy.

I don't like the idea that kids arn't supposed to learn that meat comes from animals either.. I think it's that that result in adults not realizing what they eat. A few years ago we had a situation where some parents wrote into the newspapers to complain about a store. In Scania where I live, we write 'pigs neck'' on the meat from that area, while in Stockholm they use the more fancy word ''karré''. Now these parnts kids had seen that they bought a pigsneck and refused to eat it because it was from a pig. And the parents was angry with the store.... thinking of it, I think we write Karre down here too now.

_______________

I'm reading the rest of the posts too but don't really have anything to add.

 

[skysthelimit]

I find the way that a lot (well it seems that way) of people on this forum are living, very appealing. You have freedoms to do things I never will be able to, and that allows you to make more conscientious choices about the things you do. It seems so simple to you, so practical, so harmonious. But for me it's just a dream.

Don't give up, Sky... not too long ago, that was my reality. I never saw this coming!

I only say never because at 35, with $70,000 of student loans to my name, and no credit to my name, I cannot afford to mortgage a house in the city much less afford a a house with acreage. And at this age, I can't physically farm by myself for much longer, my body will not be able to do it, I can just manage the property I am on now. I am already experiencing sharp back pains from ten years of building things myself, pouring concrete, digging posts, etc. Life gets real tight real quickly and the fairy tale becomes reality.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:45 am __________<br /><br />

You just don't like seeing food being anywhere else than on a plate, ready to eat, because you don't want to think of where it has been - am I right on this?

I don't mind someone else preparing it, I just find that handling it myself makes it unappealing as the final product to eat. I feel this way about store bought meat as well. I find that looking at the raw texture, especially chicken, and touching it, pretty much ruins my appetite. I have no problem even discussing the little meat ball while I'm eating, by name, I look at the sheep I herd as little meat packages. I could kill them and readily eat them if someone else does the butchering and preparing. Handling meat is just nasty.

I don't care much for restaurants either. Some human, who I can't trust to wash their hands, prepared it. I don't know what they did to it, I have no idea what their standard of cleanliness is, and I don't really trust it. If the physical space is not clean I won't eat it either. I eat what my mom cooks and everyone else is suspect, though I have learned to eat things put in front of me for the sake of fellowship. Strange, yes, but we all have our problems, defects and Persian flaws, I have many, that's why I see no reason for me to impose my views on others, or reproduce myself.

If that's turning a blind eye, well yes, but remember this is a country that has a high abortion rate, child abuse and neglect, something much nearer and closer to my heart than animals. If we can do that, you really think animals suffering for our needs is something we pay heed to?

 

[Happy]

Besides, I think it's evil the way you can let that thing be murdered for your next meal without giving it the courtesy of looking it in the eye beforehand, so we're even.

Some of us are still working on it, Happy.

Don't read too much into that. I was speaking ideally. I don't have a rabbitry and haven't killed my own food in about 5 years. It's all about circumstances and we all have circumstances to deal with. Trying is worth more to me than judgmentalism, and I only get judgmental on people as a retaliation for being judgmental of me (short of very heinous things like torture and ****). No sweat, I'd be a hypocrite to pretend it's as simple as I made it sound.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

But I also know that there are several problems I am having because of what's in the food

THAT RIGHT THERE is enough to change my ways. As you get older it will get worse.. I am a person big time on natural ,, not man made stuff. If People continue to eat this way from stores , in boxes, ect.. They will not live long... Why do you think there is so much cancer..and new illness.

 

[skysthelimit]

Besides, I think it's evil the way you can let that thing be murdered for your next meal without giving it the courtesy of looking it in the eye beforehand, so we're even.

Some of us are still working on it, Happy.

Don't read too much into that. I was speaking ideally. I don't have a rabbitry and haven't killed my own food in about 5 years. It's all about circumstances and we all have circumstances to deal with. Trying is worth more to me than judgmentalism, and I only get judgmental on people as a retaliation for being judgmental of me (short of very heinous things like torture and ****). No sweat, I'd be a hypocrite to pretend it's as simple as I made it sound.

That's my thing. It seems simple enough to say it. Easy enough to do when you have choices. But I live in a world where there are so many people who don't have choices, or feel like they don't have choices. They don't have access to affordable housing, they don't have access to proper healthcare, they don't have access to fresh foods and meats. They live in government housing, and receive government food assistance. Since the government doesn't run a farmers market with non GMO, steroid free meat, they eat what they have.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:34 am __________<br /><br />

But I also know that there are several problems I am having because of what's in the food

THAT RIGHT THERE is enough to change my ways. As you get older it will get worse.. I am a person big time on natural ,, not man made stuff. If People continue to eat this way from stores , in boxes, ect.. They will not live long... Why do you think there is so much cancer..and new illness.

There are no guarantees, reduce the risk, but never eliminating the problem.

 

[Zab]

__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:45 am __________

You just don't like seeing food being anywhere else than on a plate, ready to eat, because you don't want to think of where it has been - am I right on this?

I don't mind someone else preparing it, I just find that handling it myself makes it unappealing as the final product to eat. I feel this way about store bought meat as well. I find that looking at the raw texture, especially chicken, and touching it, pretty much ruins my appetite. I have no problem even discussing the little meat ball while I'm eating, by name, I look at the sheep I herd as little meat packages. I could kill them and readily eat them if someone else does the butchering and preparing. Handling meat is just nasty.

Whatever my opinions is or not is on this, it's simply not the same thing as that girl or what my point in the thread is.

 

[BroodCoop]

Isn't that just frightening? Maybe I'm strange or overly sensetive.. but shouldn't there be some sort of alarm going off when you realize this? If you won't eat something you've seen alive (but not befriended, I mean.. it's not like a pet), there must be some sort of feelings for the animals. And still while realising this and realising that animal had a way better lifre than most meat... you still chose to eat the anonymous meat, knowing that too was an animal? You don't even have plans on cutting down a bit on it?

Our civilisation makes me wonder if it's not just better to have everyone become vegetarians. Or go by the farm-rule; if you intend to eat, you need to partake. (or at least watch). That sort of reasoning probably comes from the same (meat eating) people who blurts out that I'm cruel for intending to eat my rabbits. :roll:

Sorry, I have to say I feel the same way she does. I know exactly where meat comes from. I love animals, they taste yummy. A I feed the rabbits to the dogs, and take delight in watching them enjoy their food. But, I do not eat the meat I raise or at least so far, I can say I cannot eat the meat I raise. I can hardly eat the vegetables I raise, knowing I am growing them in manure and some insect walked all over them. I can't eat the fruit off my trees knowing some fly landed on it.

The very act of butchering the animal makes the meat repulsive to me. I don't even cook packaged meat, I find that handling the meat makes it repulsive to me. In general, food preparation takes my appetite away. I can really only deal with frozen stuff out of a bag.
I don't think anyone is cruel, I just can't do it, and I can't get past the basic meat items like chicken, beef, pork, lamb and whiting, salmon, tuna, shrimp. I don't eat game meats, squirrel, duck, etc. I would do what I needed to do to survive, but I don't have to, so I don't.

__________ Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:53 pm __________

I guess as a city person I feel why do things you don't have to if you don't have to? That's what keeps other people employed, especially when they can do it cheaper and more efficiently that most of us can? That's why we have these industries. That's why we have public schools. People don't want to raise their own kids. I think all women should stay home and teach their own kids, but millions of people send their precious babies off to be raised by a system void of morals, and wonder why their kids have no respect for anything. Now that seems hypocritical.[/quote]

Thanks, very well put. I still think there is something a little schizo about raising animals for butcher. You do everything you can for months to make them healthy and comfortable but then one day you pick them up and whack them. Generalize from here.

 

[3mina]

Thanks, very well put. I still think there is something a little schizo about raising animals for butcher. You do everything you can for months to make them healthy and comfortable but then one day you pick them up and whack them. Generalize from here.

They're animals, not people. Just because a person has the ability to kill animals FOR FOOD doesn't mean that same person is going to go postal on the general population. I have no stats and I've never looked it up but I'm pretty sure that a large portion of the serial killers out there don't do what they do because they raised and ate their own meat. The act of caring for your food automatically makes you more empathic towards others as well as more decisive about hard choices. If it doesn't, there is far more wrong with you than I care to think about.

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

This is one of those things that just goads me onto a soapbox. I ran into that at the stockshow this last weekend, and a lot in general when I tell people I raise animals to put in my freezer. My response to their horror is that it is just downright unethical to claim to love animals and then be part of the system that treats them so badly for commercial production. I will show youtube videos, direct them to Food Inc. or From Farm to Fridge, or just describe some of the horrors that some commercially produced animals are subject to. I then tell them I can feel much better about myself knowing that I had the privilege to provide loving care and a happy life to the animal that is blessing my dinner table with nutrition and sustenance. I am not yet to a point where I can grow all my own meat, but that is my goal. For now, I can at least go to the local meat market and buy beef that came from local ranchers who let their cattle range over large ranches and never see a feed lot.

Then I start in on the no growth hormones/antibiotics/gmo feeds part of it. You can't depend on vegetables to be safe anymore. They are raised with as many or more chemicals than live animals are. It's about safety of the food we eat and the humaneness of how the animal lived. Anybody that can't see that it is better is CHOOSING not to be responsible for their part in the mistreatment of those animals that grace their dinner table.

*ETA this obviously does not apply to the organic produce vegan peoples, I totally understand their lifestyle even if I don't subscribe to it, just the general "food magically appears at the grocery store" people.

__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:30 am __________

Oh, and my children have always been taught, "if you kill it, you eat it" since their first little bb guns. I tell them unless it is a danger to your person or one of our animals, do not go around killing animals just for fun or giggles.

 

[Happy]

Oh, and my children have always been taught, "if you kill it, you eat it" since their first little bb guns. I tell them unless it is a danger to your person or one of our animals, do not go around killing animals just for fun or giggles.

This is such a part of me that I would eat burglar if there weren't bigger principles at stake.

 

[Miss M]

I only say never because at 35, with $70,000 of student loans to my name, and no credit to my name, I cannot afford to mortgage a house in the city much less afford a a house with acreage. And at this age, I can't physically farm by myself for much longer, my body will not be able to do it, I can just manage the property I am on now. I am already experiencing sharp back pains from ten years of building things myself, pouring concrete, digging posts, etc. Life gets real tight real quickly and the fairy tale becomes reality.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm 42, Shay's 52, and he's just recently gotten a job that isn't bull-work. He can still do plenty, but the work is catching up with him. I have hypermobile joints, so live with a measure of back and leg pain.

And here we are, starting over, and just starting (except for rabbits) to become more self-sufficient. :roll:

Don't read too much into that. I was speaking ideally. I don't have a rabbitry and haven't killed my own food in about 5 years. It's all about circumstances and we all have circumstances to deal with. Trying is worth more to me than judgmentalism, and I only get judgmental on people as a retaliation for being judgmental of me (short of very heinous things like torture and ****). No sweat, I'd be a hypocrite to pretend it's as simple as I made it sound.

Sorry about that. You are right that each of us has our own circumstances to deal with.

A few of us are able to raise just about everything, many of us don't have the space and can't get the space to do so. So we try to do what we can.<br /><br />__________ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:37 am __________<br /><br />

Oh, and my children have always been taught, "if you kill it, you eat it" since their first little bb guns. I tell them unless it is a danger to your person or one of our animals, do not go around killing animals just for fun or giggles.

Yes, absolutely!

My husband had a friend who got a BB gun for Christmas. He took it and sat on his back porch and started plinking blackbirds with it. That evening, at dinner, he found two dozen neatly butchered and baked blackbirds on his plate. His father informed him that he would not be getting his gun back until every one of those birds was eaten. He learned real fast that you don't kill for fun.

 

[coffeenutdesigns]

how namy people dont know that peanuts and potatoes and garlic and onions grow in the ground?

Um, I actually didn't know that peanuts grow in the ground and I've known people with peanut farms! lol. Learn something new everyday.

i want my veggies from a garden with fresh air and manure! i want animals that i saw them live happy, healthy lives for me to eat!
i get downright argumentative and defensive during conversations like this... so i will try to hold myself in check

:yeahthat:

 

[Dood]

I know not everyone can raise their own meat but surely you can buy from a farmer who treats his livestock with respect and may charge a bit more for his efforts and you may need to wait because he doesn't have an endless supply of sirloin or have it in stock for your Independance day BBQ.

I think convenience is a big part of the problem.

It takes time to find a local farmer and visit their farm. You may need a large freezer as many only sell animals by the half or quarter or else the farmer would have freezers full of liver, hocks, hamburger and stewing beef. Most of our animals are butchered in the summer or fall and if not pre-ordered, it's first come first served so we can quickly sell out of popular cuts, so when you call in March for an Easter ham, chances are we don't have any but can put you on a waiting list for the next batch in June, and guess what - 9 times out of 10 they are not interested as they want it NOW.

Our whole culture is out of whack. Who cares about the seasons when you can get strawberries in January at the grocey store. Most people are just out of touch with nature in general and it is a very sad thing.