Holy Cows, Jill had 4 babies !!

[3mina]

After four days if she'd retained kits I'd think she'd be dead but I could be completely wrong

 

[MKirst]

Ya, I dunno what going on in her belly, but she eats and drinks plenty all the time. To me, it just looks like she didn't deliver all her babies.

Ok, I can tell a big difference in Starlight's 4 babies now that they are in with the 4 maniacs. They are warm to the touch like the maniacs and their pink skin isn't so dull, it's more dark pink now that they've been in with the maniacs. And the dark color is even darker now, not to faded blue. And the nest box is outside in Jill's hutch house in the cold. Maybe this will work out after all.

I did bring them in to hand feed a few minutes ago and got at least 2 lines on the syringe in them. I don't want to over do it - just kick start them some. Now that they are in with the maniacs I do see them getting stronger having to move around the maniacs all the time. I put them in a spare nest box after I feed each one (so I don't feed the same one again) and this time they climbed to the top and wanted out .. one almost fell outta the nest box. Definately a great idea to put them in with the others. Thanks again. You people's are the best !!

I can't believe the color difference though, just the color change makes them look more alive I think, not so hanging on the edge.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

They are warm to the touch like the maniacs and their pink skin isn't so dull, it's more dark pink now that they've been in with the maniacs.

Wow, that is very interesting! It must be the increased blood flow to the skin- before their circulation was restricted more to the core of their bodies to limit heat loss, but now they are warm and stimulated by the activity of the others. Thank you for posting that observation! :goodjob:

 

[SarahMelisse]

:mbounce: Finally you have some popples of your very own! :clap: Way to go, Jack and Jill!

Jack and Jill went up the hill ancake: :bunnyhop:
to fetch a pail of parsley :dinner:
Jack fell down with a pleased frown :mrgreen:
And Jill had popples after :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny: :lilbunny:

For your enlightenment, the gruesome origins of the original nursery rhyme, with a fascinating anecdote pertaining to beheading :

http://www.rhymes.org.uk/jack_and_jill.htm

:rotfl:

 

[faiththequeen]

WOWZA!!! What a roller coaster of emotions!!!!!

I hope all 8 babies are doing well tonight

 

[AnnClaire]

MKirst, you can also try letting Jill nurse the younger ones too ... she will have plenty of teats and the competition will also stimulate them to nurse longer. I have one kit that is a week younger than the others and I simply take the older ones out for a couple of minutes to let the smaller one get a head start on nursing, then put the others in and they all get nice round tummies. I also keep the nest in the house so I can regulate the kits like that.

 

[MKirst]

Jill's 4 are doing great.

Starlight's 4 died - 3 yesterday, one this morning. They were chewed up after one whole night in the maniacs nest box in Jill's hutch. Kits were full of milk but missing 1/2 ears and everything. Hind legs were chewed, ears chewed, front paws were chewed. Looks like they were tormented to death.

My sons snake then ate them.

Jill's 4 are maniacs I tell ya.

Look's like no pedigreed babies for my son and I to show anytime soon. :?

Now I have 3 pedigreed does and no pedigreed buck .. and I don't see me buying a pedigreed buck in the near future either.

Look's like John and Jack will have their turn with each doe .. see what genetic program I end up with.

Thanks for all who replied, it's much appreciated.

ONWARD !!

 

[skysthelimit]

Jill's 4 are doing great.

Starlight's 4 died - 3 yesterday, one this morning. They were chewed up after one whole night in the maniacs nest box in Jill's hutch. Kits were full of milk but missing 1/2 ears and everything. Hind legs were chewed, ears chewed, front paws were chewed. Looks like they were tormented to death.

My sons snake then ate them.

Jill's 4 are maniacs I tell ya.

Look's like no pedigreed babies for my son and I to show anytime soon. :?

Now I have 3 pedigreed does and no pedigreed buck .. and I don't see me buying a pedigreed buck in the near future either.

Look's like John and Jack will have their turn with each doe .. see what genetic program I end up with.

Thanks for all who replied, it's much appreciated.

ONWARD !!

NO!!!!!

I've got plenty of bucks, I could give you one at the Lebanon show. Matter of fact, I just gave Frosted Rabbit my blue buck, and I've got some nice kits in the meat pen about to go to dog food, there only fault being they are bucks.<br /><br />__________ Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:33 am __________<br /><br />Though keep in mind, they don't have to be pedigreed to show, and you would have half a pedigree, and could build the other in time.

 

[MKirst]

Thank you skysthelimit for the buck offer, that is very kind of you.

I will pass though. I think because I'm new to all this and I do have 3 pedigreed does, I'm going to see what Jack and John produce with those three and go from there. These past few days have been rough on me .. I'm just glad Jill is an awesome mom - because believe it or not she was my ultimate backup and she didn't fail me. Her 4 maniacs just didn't like Starlight's 4 newborns. Darn it.

Next time in crisis, I know now to keep separate Jill's kits with whatever I need her to adopt. Live and learn.

I would like to buy that Orange/Black Harlequin buck that bred my 3 does from the breeder - but scanning her website a few minutes ago she doesn't even have Mini Rex listed as her breed anymore or even him as a Mini Rex stud. Bummer, I would have liked to buy him because she said he produced nice reds with the Castor doe I got from her. Darn it.

Maybe she had the dates wrong with (beings Starlight delivered 10 days early) being prego and the Castor will have kits. LOL I dunno. :roll:

If not, I look forward to seeing what John and Jack produce with these 3 does. Just go from there with the pedigree records.

Thank you for the offer though, that was very nice of you.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Starlight's 4 died - 3 yesterday, one this morning. They were chewed up after one whole night in the maniacs nest box in Jill's hutch. Kits were full of milk but missing 1/2 ears and everything. Hind legs were chewed, ears chewed, front paws were chewed. Looks like they were tormented to death.

How old are Jill's kits? I have NEVER heard of kits biting each other like that....

 

[MKirst]

Jill's kits are 6 days old today.

Here's a video I took of the maniacs yesterday morning.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOUEe7QgDyU[/youtube]

 

[OneAcreFarm]

MK, that is totally normal behavior for kits that age. They are not maniacs...and I can almost guarantee you that those kits did NOT chew up the others....either it was the doe or you have a rat problem.

 

[JessicaR]

:yeahthat: Thats what I was thinking either the doe or a rat got to them

 

[MKirst]

I seen Jill's 4 biting at each other as mentioned in a previous post and I watched Jill's 4 bite Starlights 4th baby. I know Jill's 4 tormented to death Starlights 4.

I dunno what else to say, this is what happened IMO.

 

[AnnClaire]

MKirst, it is really puzzeling ... I have mixed litters a week different in age with no issues. I have never had a doe reject fosters either. However, I have also never seen the kits "race" around like those for that length of time in the video ... another puzzle piece I believe.

As for the rats, that would have been my first choice of injury/death, but there is no evidence of that in the maniac litter. This could be for one of two reasons ... there is no rat problem, or the doe is ferocious enough to keep them out of her nestbox ... which still doesn't explain what happened to the younger kits.

I would definitely be interested to see what type of personalities these 4 from the maniac litter develop <br /><br />__________ Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:51 pm __________<br /><br />Also, do you give a Tums a day or two before kindling so the doe doesn't suffer from calcium deficiency during/after birth? That could be one of the reasons for the initial injuries and difficulties the dam experienced.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

However, I have also never seen the kits "race" around like those for that length of time in the video ... another puzzle piece I believe.

My Rex kits act like this ALL the time...are like little piranha, as opposed to my Calis and NZW, which are more laid back.

 

[MKirst]

No, I didn't give tums.

I do however give apples, chinese cabbage, turnips, green beans and celery every day along with mixed feed (rolled grains, Blue Seal Sunshine Plus pellets, green and yellow split peas and flaxseeds) .. the only supplement I mix in that is NuImage (2 cup's to every 50 pounds of mixed feed) for a shiny coat and strong bones. Timothy hay every morning.

The Charlie rabbit (Jean), Jill and John are my best eaters, they eat everything I give leaving nothing at the next feeding. I feed 3 times a day 6am, noon and 8pm the feed and produce is every evening in addition to feed. Jean, John and Jill can each eat 3/4 a cup to one cup each every feed time plus devour the produce by morning feeding and still act starved in between.

The 3 does don't eat 1/2 of what Jean, Jill and John eat in a day. Although they devour the produce. I could probably get away with feeding them twice a day even at 1/2 cup each. Jack eats more than the 3 does but not as much as Jean, John and Jill.

Jean, Jill and John grew up here, they were tiny when I got each of them. The 3 does and Jack were adults. The 3 does I've had about 1 month. Jack maybe 2 months.

 

[AnnClaire]

However, I have also never seen the kits "race" around like those for that length of time in the video ... another puzzle piece I believe.

My Rex kits act like this ALL the time...are like little piranha, as opposed to my Calis and NZW, which are more laid back.

Mine only get this way *after* their eyes are open ... but we call it a "piranha pile" as they are pushing and shoving to get to the petting or cracker or whatever :lol: