Fodder sprouting systems, anyone?

[mystang89]

I've never had kits on fodder but I think MaggieJ was saying they gained wait a bit slower. Could be wrong on that though so if MaggieJ wants to correct me I'm sure she will.<br /><br />__________ Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:30 am __________<br /><br />Sort of along the same lines. MaggieJ's comment on the bottom. Well, it's the bottom for now anyway.

http://rabbittalk.com/natural-feeding-and-litter-size-t14663.html

 

[Fire-Man]

I can not see fodder being Better/more weight gain than pellets. Really I would see it as not as good. I feel if you feed fodder and some other high protien grain-----you should be good. There is alot of research in most pellets manufactors and in my Opinion-----Fodder alone will not compare to it.

Keep in mind I do feed fodder, but I also feed pellets, just not as much of them.

 

[mystang89]

For my breeders I will feed fodder and hay exclusively. I'll give some weeds during this time of year and during the winter I might give some oats depending on how they are doing but when they are at average weight I don't do pellets.

For my grow out kits I feed nothing but pellets to them.

 

[Fire-Man]

For my breeders I will feed fodder and hay exclusively. I'll give some weeds during this time of year and during the winter I might give some oats depending on how they are doing but when they are at average weight I don't do pellets.

For my grow out kits I feed nothing but pellets to them.

Sounds Like this Would be a Good Set-up!!!


Mustang, (I have not read all the recent post) How long you been doing this? Have you weighed the breeders to see how their weight is doing? Thanks

 

[mystang89]

I've been doing it for about 4+ months. I raise SF, NZW & Cali's. They are all around 9 or 10 lbs which is what all of my adult have been so they stay pretty steady on their weight.

I will say that when I have a nursing doe, (like now,) I do supplement pellets for them too. Nursing does get pellets in their cage all day long (or as often as I check on them,) along with hay and then get fed the same amount of fodder I normally give them when they aren't nursing which is about 6 - 8oz.

 

[MaggieJ]

I've never had kits on fodder but I think MaggieJ was saying they gained wait a bit slower. Could be wrong on that though so if MaggieJ wants to correct me I'm sure she will.

__________ Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:30 am __________

Sort of along the same lines. MaggieJ's comment on the bottom. Well, it's the bottom for now anyway.

http://rabbittalk.com/natural-feeding-and-litter-size-t14663.html

Just to clarify, I find that fryers on natural feed grow more slowly than fryers raised on pellets. Mine take 14-16 weeks as opposed to 10-12 weeks. Mine get alfalfa hay free choice, some grass hay, and wheat sprouts/fodder. I do not feed additional grain when they have the sprouted grain. A few more days and the weeds will be far enough advanced to make gathering worthwhile. Gathered greens make up most of their summer diet. They also have a trace mineral salt block.

I have to grow them out for longer, but overall feed costs are much lower than with pellets so my cost per pound is about half what it was when I was feeding pellets. I like the flavour of the meat better too.

 

[Toady]

Finally I'm having some success with a mini fodder system. I put some holes in one side of a plastic takeout container and put some seeds in (wheat, oats and orchard grass) after soaking them overnight and about 5 days in the shoots are a few inches high. I really need to see if somewhere around here sells barley or stick with the wheat.

 

[wormrun]

Wormrun, I know you've only been feeding fodder for 6 weeks, but have you noticed a difference in weight gains in your kits compared to pellets? How is over all herd health?

This is my first time with rabbits let alone a litter. Also first time on a forum! Bare with me. I will weigh them and keep track so you can help me determine how they are doing. I have 9 babies that lived from a litter of ten. Mom is FGxNZB bred to a CA buck. I got her as a pregnant doe due within a week of arriving my house. The herd is super active, healthy and out of the nest box for about a week now. They were born on 4/13. She's a very nice momma as long as I don't try to remove anything from her hole. Pray for me, I'll go get them out and see where we stand on this litter. Keep in mind they are only nibbling on a little hay and a little fodder right now. Oh, I also feed fodder, hay and pellets. Momma hardly touches the pellets since being at my house with fodder, she loves it! I give her all she wants due to lactation and herd size. My plan is to remove the pellets, but you can't remove the hay, roughage and all. Oh, in the summer time, like today when our temps have been a record 15 degrees hotter than usual, 90+ today!!! The potential for mold is HUGE. So far so good, but I would NOT be surprised if today wasn't the day for an issue. Again 90!!! The average temp here is 75 this time of year.

 

[mystang89]

Finally I'm having some success with a mini fodder system. I put some holes in one side of a plastic takeout container and put some seeds in (wheat, oats and orchard grass) after soaking them overnight and about 5 days in the shoots are a few inches high. I really need to see if somewhere around here sells barley or stick with the wheat.

Good luck finding Barley. Wheat has worked well for me so even if I found some it would probably be more expensive so I'll stick with the wheat.

Just to clarify, I find that fryers on natural feed grow more slowly than fryers raised on pellets. Mine take 14-16 weeks as opposed to 10-12 weeks. Mine get alfalfa hay free choice, some grass hay, and wheat sprouts/fodder. I do not feed additional grain when they have the sprouted grain. A few more days and the weeds will be far enough advanced to make gathering worthwhile. Gathered greens make up most of their summer diet. They also have a trace mineral salt block.

I have to grow them out for longer, but overall feed costs are much lower than with pellets so my cost per pound is about half what it was when I was feeding pellets. I like the flavour of the meat better too.

Thanks

 

[wormrun]

Wormrun, I know you've only been feeding fodder for 6 weeks, but have you noticed a difference in weight gains in your kits compared to pellets? How is over all herd health?

OK, I weighed the 9 babies. 71 oz. total. The 4 blacks weighed 34 oz. The 5 whites weighed 36 oz. They are 16 days old. I guess that will give us a good idea how they are doing going forward. Just a quick recap, Momma is FG/NZB bred to CA buck. Keep me posted so I have a comparison.

My other young rabbits are between 4 months and 5 months of age. They are growing very well, but since I'm new I have no comparison. I feed fodder first thing in the morning, then I fill waters, tend to fodder, offer hay. They always have a little pellets in their container. I fill these once a week with a 1/2 cup to 1 cup each. I know, seems odd. There are two that are stubborn. One loves her pellets and the other loves her hay. I have no idea how much to give them when they are grown up enough to breed. HELP!

Here's two articles for your reading pleasure that have comforted me in my endeavor to explore fodder vs just pellets. The first is called "Rabbits, Rabbits Everywhere" and the other is on chicken comparisons, "The Broiler Challenge."

http://hydroponics.com.au/free-articles/issue114-rabbits-rabbits-everywhere-rabbits
http://lifeatmennageriefarm.blogspot.com/search/label/basic broiler challenge

Thanks!<br /><br />__________ Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:38 pm __________<br /><br />

Finally I'm having some success with a mini fodder system. I put some holes in one side of a plastic takeout container and put some seeds in (wheat, oats and orchard grass) after soaking them overnight and about 5 days in the shoots are a few inches high. I really need to see if somewhere around here sells barley or stick with the wheat.

Good luck finding Barley. Wheat has worked well for me so even if I found some it would probably be more expensive so I'll stick with the wheat.

Just to clarify, I find that fryers on natural feed grow more slowly than fryers raised on pellets. Mine take 14-16 weeks as opposed to 10-12 weeks. Mine get alfalfa hay free choice, some grass hay, and wheat sprouts/fodder. I do not feed additional grain when they have the sprouted grain. A few more days and the weeds will be far enough advanced to make gathering worthwhile. Gathered greens make up most of their summer diet. They also have a trace mineral salt block.

I have to grow them out for longer, but overall feed costs are much lower than with pellets so my cost per pound is about half what it was when I was feeding pellets. I like the flavour of the meat better too.

Thanks

Well hi there MaggieJ, I am super happy to know you've been down the road of natural feeding, etc. I do plan on growing some other things for them this summer, but for now, they appear to be quite happy with the sprouted grains. The wheat and the barley is the easiest to deal with, the Triticale is just a tad more money. The oats, well, I just started them and I have tails along with extreme temperatures. We'll see if it grew mold. Thanks

 

[MaggieJ]

Wormrun, I started with rabbits in July, 2005 with some yard sale meat mutts. They were not in the best of shape when they arrived here, but soon perked up with copious amounts of dandelions and plantain in addition to their pellets. In the spring of 2007, I found out that the pellets I was feeding contained animal tallow. Not good! So I began to transition them to a natural diet of hay, greens and small amounts of grain. I put a lot of time into researching the plants that I could feed. The Safe Plants sticky is the result, although it is not comprehensive. I took a lot of criticism on another forum for what I was doing, but I persevered and eventually the idea of natural feeding began to catch on. After all, it is the way rabbits have been fed for hundreds of years, before pellets were invented.

 

[wormrun]

Wormrun, I started with rabbits in July, 2005 with some yard sale meat mutts. They were not in the best of shape when they arrived here, but soon perked up with copious amounts of dandelions and plantain in addition to their pellets. In the spring of 2007, I found out that the pellets I was feeding contained animal tallow. Not good! So I began to transition them to a natural diet of hay, greens and small amounts of grain. I put a lot of time into researching the plants that I could feed. The Safe Plants sticky is the result, although it is not comprehensive. I took a lot of criticism on another forum for what I was doing, but I persevered and eventually the idea of natural feeding began to catch on. After all, it is the way rabbits have been fed for hundreds of years, before pellets were invented.

I could not agree more! Now tell me about "The Safe Plants." Oh, don't tell my neighbors but I have saved a few dandelion seeds and I'm actually going to make a bed of dandelions for the rabbits. I know crazy. I purchased some lemon balm and I think that is on a list somewhere. Another spreading plant, good thing I have a couple of acres. I hear they like peppermint also and LOVE basil. I will look on my pellets (although they don't eat much of them) and see if tallow is on the list. When you say copious amounts, are you filling your hands? Send me a photo, I'd love to see.

I sprouted the oats this week and on my 90 degree day I tossed one of the batches. ARGH! Mold on one foreign seed. I have the others and for some reason they did alright, I'm experimenting with ventilation, and a spray that my mom told me to get. Grapefruit Seed Extract. I made the spray today using a tablespoon of baking soda, 20 drops of grapefruit seed extract, a cup of vinegar and a cup of water. Mix it in a bowl as that bad boy went off on me today like no other! I knew it had to potential to do that, but seriously, it went off! I poured it into a spray bottle and started spraying all the sprouts, left it on for ten minutes and rinsed well. I'm trying a once a day application. This is the formulation that was recommended for your veggie wash from the store, Oprah, here http://www.livestrong.com/article/37737-wash-produce-grapefruit-seed-oil/. Later I discovered that you can use just the Grapefruit Seed Extract in solution to help disinfect your rabbit cages, hang on, let me get this too, because I want your two cents. http://www.thefamilyhomestead.com/grapefruitseedextract.htm.

Thanks so much for your wonderful ideas, keep sending them. To get my rabbits on an organic diet is no easy task, and the pellets are $30.00 for a 50# sack. As a result, I'm willing to grow, sprout and do what it takes to keep everyone healthy. Wormrun

PS - Someone mentioned barley was hard to find. I get it at Azure Standard, they drop ship free if you order over $500.00 here on the west coast. I'm trying to get some of my rabbit and healthy eating friends on the order with me. $18.95 Barley for 45#. Not cheap, but available. When you sprout it, it lasts a long time. I heard you can get a bushel in Ohio for like $6.00!!! :shock: Check grain elevators.<br /><br />__________ Wed May 01, 2013 2:06 am __________<br /><br />

Wormrun, I know you've only been feeding fodder for 6 weeks, but have you noticed a difference in weight gains in your kits compared to pellets? How is over all herd health?

OK, I weighed the 9 babies. 71 oz. total. The 4 blacks weighed 34 oz. The 5 whites weighed 36 oz. They are 16 days old. I guess that will give us a good idea how they are doing going forward. Just a quick recap, Momma is FG/NZB bred to CA buck. Keep me posted so I have a comparison.

My other young rabbits are between 4 months and 5 months of age. They are growing very well, but since I'm new I have no comparison. I feed fodder first thing in the morning, then I fill waters, tend to fodder, offer hay. They always have a little pellets in their container. I fill these once a week with a 1/2 cup to 1 cup each. I know, seems odd. There are two that are stubborn. One loves her pellets and the other loves her hay. I have no idea how much to give them when they are grown up enough to breed. HELP!

Here's two articles for your reading pleasure that have comforted me in my endeavor to explore fodder vs just pellets. The first is called "Rabbits, Rabbits Everywhere" and the other is on chicken comparisons, "The Broiler Challenge."

http://hydroponics.com.au/free-articles/issue114-rabbits-rabbits-everywhere-rabbits
http://lifeatmennageriefarm.blogspot.com/search/label/basic broiler challenge

Thanks!

__________ Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:38 pm __________

Finally I'm having some success with a mini fodder system. I put some holes in one side of a plastic takeout container and put some seeds in (wheat, oats and orchard grass) after soaking them overnight and about 5 days in the shoots are a few inches high. I really need to see if somewhere around here sells barley or stick with the wheat.

Good luck finding Barley. Wheat has worked well for me so even if I found some it would probably be more expensive so I'll stick with the wheat.

Just to clarify, I find that fryers on natural feed grow more slowly than fryers raised on pellets. Mine take 14-16 weeks as opposed to 10-12 weeks. Mine get alfalfa hay free choice, some grass hay, and wheat sprouts/fodder. I do not feed additional grain when they have the sprouted grain. A few more days and the weeds will be far enough advanced to make gathering worthwhile. Gathered greens make up most of their summer diet. They also have a trace mineral salt block.

I have to grow them out for longer, but overall feed costs are much lower than with pellets so my cost per pound is about half what it was when I was feeding pellets. I like the flavour of the meat better too.

Thanks

Well hi there MaggieJ, I am super happy to know you've been down the road of natural feeding, etc. I do plan on growing some other things for them this summer, but for now, they appear to be quite happy with the sprouted grains. The wheat and the barley is the easiest to deal with, the Triticale is just a tad more money. The oats, well, I just started them and I have tails along with extreme temperatures. We'll see if it grew mold. Thanks

Hey Toady, I would sprout the oats separated from the barley and the wheat. I don't know about the orchard grass? I can tell you barley grows fast, as does wheat, toss in some BOSS. But the oats have their own schedule. I think 2-3 days behind the others. Keep an eye out for the mold too, especially on the barley. I run fans, and open the garage door for ventilation early in the morning. Keep me posted, I'm new to all this too. Thanks, Wormrun

 

[Toady]

Hey Toady, I would sprout the oats separated from the barley and the wheat. I don't know about the orchard grass? I can tell you barley grows fast, as does wheat, toss in some BOSS. But the oats have their own schedule. I think 2-3 days behind the others. Keep an eye out for the mold too, especially on the barley. I run fans, and open the garage door for ventilation early in the morning. Keep me posted, I'm new to all this too. Thanks, Wormrun

I've noticed the oats is taking a while, as is the orchard grass... they were just some seeds I had and put them in as a trial. I'm only using small containers due to only having 3 rabbits, plus my set up is currently in the kitchen so not a lot of room, I soaked a 1/3 cup of wheat yesterday and put it out this morning so we'll see how it goes... the root mat on the mixed seeds is going great! Have to keep the cats away from it

 

[mystang89]

From everything I've read many people have said that it is more difficult to grow oats than wheat and since wheat seems to be more readily available to everyone that is what most people use, myself included. I hope the orchard grass turns out well for you.

 

[MaggieJ]

Wormrun, I have acreage, so I can gather a lot of plants. I usually use a bucket, so they get up to five gallons of loose greens a day. My rabbits are in a small colony in a shed, so I just dump them in.

Living in Ontario, I can only gather from late April to the end of October. The rest of the year we have to rely on fodder or sprouts and such vegetables as cabbage, carrots, beets and so forth. You have to be a bit careful with cabbage. I phase it in very slowly while there are still some weeds available in October and have not had any problems.

Your situation in California is going to be different. You will need to work with your climate. Our temperatures are beginning to warm up and I may run into problems with mould on the sprouts. I'm feeding them to our free range chickens as well as the rabbits at present.

I'm very fortunate that I can get wheat, oats or barley here. Wheat is about $10 for 50 pounds. Alfalfa hay is about 3.50 a square bale. And the weeds are free, free, free!

 

[mystang89]

$3.50 a bale?! Ship me some please

 

[wormrun]

Hey Toady, I would sprout the oats separated from the barley and the wheat. I don't know about the orchard grass? I can tell you barley grows fast, as does wheat, toss in some BOSS. But the oats have their own schedule. I think 2-3 days behind the others. Keep an eye out for the mold too, especially on the barley. I run fans, and open the garage door for ventilation early in the morning. Keep me posted, I'm new to all this too. Thanks, Wormrun

I've noticed the oats is taking a while, as is the orchard grass... they were just some seeds I had and put them in as a trial. I'm only using small containers due to only having 3 rabbits, plus my set up is currently in the kitchen so not a lot of room, I soaked a 1/3 cup of wheat yesterday and put it out this morning so we'll see how it goes... the root mat on the mixed seeds is going great! Have to keep the cats away from it

Yes, I noticed that the oats take FOREVER also! Also remember to buy either people grade or animal feed when purchasing seeds for sprouting. Not planting grade as it is treated. I'm sending good vibes your way. - Wormrun

__________ Wed May 01, 2013 10:48 pm __________

Wormrun, I have acreage, so I can gather a lot of plants. I usually use a bucket, so they get up to five gallons of loose greens a day. My rabbits are in a small colony in a shed, so I just dump them in.

Living in Ontario, I can only gather from late April to the end of October. The rest of the year we have to rely on fodder or sprouts and such vegetables as cabbage, carrots, beets and so forth. You have to be a bit careful with cabbage. I phase it in very slowly while there are still some weeds available in October and have not had any problems.

Your situation in California is going to be different. You will need to work with your climate. Our temperatures are beginning to warm up and I may run into problems with mould on the sprouts. I'm feeding them to our free range chickens as well as the rabbits at present.

I'm very fortunate that I can get wheat, oats or barley here. Wheat is about $10 for 50 pounds. Alfalfa hay is about 3.50 a square bale. And the weeds are free, free, free!

Thank you so much for the visual. WOW! how many rabbits do you have again in the colony? Another great idea that I want to try when I setup the outdoor shed. Yes, I read cabbage is to be fed in limited quantity. Kale is supposed to be okay, I think, need to look it up again. I don't have the forage down yet and placed in my brain. Have you ever grown mangles and I wonder (a root veggie) if they are okay? Think GIANT turnip. One thing I learned is that they are like natures rototiller! HUGE!

Also, the hay here is about $20 a bale for a meadow grass and Timothy was $18.00 a bale. I think I'll get alfalfa 20% mixed with Orchard next time just to see if they like it. I know our prices are super high, but they are organic and I really appreciate that. As to the weeds, I have those and have a little acreage myself - lots of weeds!! I worry about giving them something that is on the very bad list! Any sites you can recommend for a list of edible weeds for rabbits would be great. I'll poke around a look myself. Now I just need to name that weed! Oh, I can do that with some of them anyway. For the others, I'm having a lunch with all my gardener friends and they will help me! I'm getting excited about free food! HA! Thanks again!

We'll need to talk more about the colony, because that just sounds fun. I'll read a few more of your posts before asking questions. That seems like a great way to keep everyone fairly happy. Sadly they do get territorial from what I understand so I'm guessing the pecking order is alive and well in the colony. HA!<br /><br />__________ Thu May 02, 2013 10:15 pm __________<br /><br />

From everything I've read many people have said that it is more difficult to grow oats than wheat and since wheat seems to be more readily available to everyone that is what most people use, myself included. I hope the orchard grass turns out well for you.

__ Thu May 02, 2013 10:10 pm __________

Oats are the :twisted: I sprouted 3 cups into 11"x 20" trays. You can see the wheat for comparison. Oats are so sad looking. I then doubled my amount in the last tray, we'll have to wait for that one to grow. Here are the pictures.

Oats in date order:

[album]1627[/album]
Oats doubled batch to improve mat structure and density
[album]1628[/album]
Oats a day ahead of previous sparse
[album]1625[/album]
Oats - super sparse

Wheat comparison

[album]1622[/album]
Wheat ready to eat tomorrow, it is 3 days younger than the oats that are green!!! :shock:
[album]1624[/album]
Wheat 30 hours old. It soaked for 30 minutes instead of 24 hours.
[album]1623[/album]
Wheat soaked 30 minutes today
[album]1626[/album]
Barley 2.5 cups w/.5 cup of soft white wheat, soaked 30 minutes 5/2

Happy to experiment. I will try to give you an update in 2 days to see the difference, I'm curious too!!!

 

[Miss M]

I worry about giving them something that is on the very bad list! Any sites you can recommend for a list of edible weeds for rabbits would be great.

This will give you a boost: safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html

$3.50 a bale?! Ship me some please

I know... it's disgusting, isn't it? :angry:

 

[Toady]

Well the wheat is amazing compared to the oats, 2 and a half a days and there's tiny shoots and a root mat is starting to form.

I'm also jealous of those who can get bales of good quality hay for $3.50, my grass/alfalfa mix hay was $15 for a bale and the oat hay was $16.50... mind you the oat bale is a lot heavier!

 

[skysthelimit]

It's warm again, so I'm going to try the sprouts again, this time in the bunny barn.