Best Method To Dispatch

[tambayo]

Why do you expect 100% the same way of moving from yourself and a 100% the same behaviour from each time and different animal in this? Or anything for that matter? As a vietnam vet no less? Similar or even the same situation from your point of view may not be that of the other party. There will always be outliers who behave differently period and then you need to add for stronger senses and other priorities or associations due to experience. You cannot exclude bunny/cow/horse/whatever animals logic in how it deals with situations.

No matter the tech stuff we have, we are still first of all human. With human motivations, but also skills that while tech is helpfull in supporting them cannot replace essential parts that require higher reasoning. However that same higher reasoning is also both a blessing and a curse. Complexity doesn't equal progress or better than before. The simple stuff and solutions are still here because they still work so well.
And if you have seen stargate back when. The very advanced aliens came to us for the stupid, working! solution, their thought process was to complex.
Occam's razor applies to many things, also because complexity doesn't hold together long, there are to many variables interdependant on eachother.

 

[Dutch Stoven]

Good questions, Rabbit Dad - though I think you share a common temptation with me: overthinking things due to the desire to get it 'right'.
Seems to me that if we want to eat meat (I do!), we have to accept the fact that it requires death, and it is almost impossible for the average livestock raiser to make death completely painless. Try to give the critter a good life while it's growing, and just do your best and don't take it too seriously. This is a broken world, and there isn't a perfect way to kill something.
I just recruited a white buck for Freezer Camp today. Held him upside down and whacked him on the back of the head with a hatchet a couple times. He died very quickly. Good way to confirm is to tap the eye. No response? then the brain ain't operating. Could he have felt some pain? Maybe, but I went as quick as I could. I don't think God is going to judge us rabbit harvesters harshly unless we *try* to make them feel pain.

 

[RabbitDad]

Why do you expect 100% the same way of moving from yourself and a 100% the same behaviour from each time and different animal in this? Or anything for that matter? As a vietnam vet no less? Similar or even the same situation from your point of view may not be that of the other party. There will always be outliers who behave differently period and then you need to add for stronger senses and other priorities or associations due to experience. You cannot exclude bunny/cow/horse/whatever animals logic in how it deals with situations.

No matter the tech stuff we have, we are still first of all human. With human motivations, but also skills that while tech is helpfull in supporting them cannot replace essential parts that require higher reasoning. However that same higher reasoning is also both a blessing and a curse. Complexity doesn't equal progress or better than before. The simple stuff and solutions are still here because they still work so well.
And if you have seen stargate back when. The very advanced aliens came to us for the stupid, working! solution, their thought process was to complex.
Occam's razor applies to many things, also because complexity doesn't hold together long, there are to many variables interdependant on eachother.

I conceed that I may be way off on this, putting light on a problem that may not even exist.
However... what if the concensus is wrong?
I don't know anyone here but would bet not a single person would be willing to cause unnecessary pain & suffering to a rabbit.
Some very comforting evidence was presented further back in this conversation leading me to believe one of the best methods has already been discovered and is currently being used. However, without absolute proof, we don't really know for sure.
If it was proven that you were wrong, wouldn't you want to know? I know I would. Not that we could somehow magically change the past, but to prevent further errors in the future.
I'm thinking to somehow cease brain function instantly so there is zero possibility of suffering.
I believe that can be detected and measured.
Not having a medical background, I'm forced to rely on information available and personal experience.
I've seen humans with catastrophic injuries but somehow the level of pain was minimal. I assume animals may have the same safeguards in place.
I don't understand how or why that is, merely reporting what I've seen.
By the time pain is perceived, the victim is dead.
I'm not smart enough to have all the answers but somebody is. Is there a doctor in the house?

 

[RabbitDad]

Good questions, Rabbit Dad - though I think you share a common temptation with me: overthinking things due to the desire to get it 'right'.
Seems to me that if we want to eat meat (I do!), we have to accept the fact that it requires death, and it is almost impossible for the average livestock raiser to make death completely painless. Try to give the critter a good life while it's growing, and just do your best and don't take it too seriously. This is a broken world, and there isn't a perfect way to kill something.
I just recruited a white buck for Freezer Camp today. Held him upside down and whacked him on the back of the head with a hatchet a couple times. He died very quickly. Good way to confirm is to tap the eye. No response? then the brain ain't operating. Could he have felt some pain? Maybe, but I went as quick as I could. I don't think God is going to judge us rabbit harvesters harshly unless we *try* to make them feel pain.

Pretty sure we are exactly on the same page.
I doubt your rabbit had a clue anything was "off" except for the unnatural part of hanging upside down. I can't imagine that causing pain. Confusion perhaps but no pain.
My grandfather taught me how to butcher / process rabbits & other game animals. He used the same method but with a heavy metal pipe.
Like yours, the rabbit was unquestionably dead, instantly. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Like I stated previously, I have no problem with being dead... it's the process of becoming dead that I have issues with.
Another consolation is that animals bred for consumption have zero effect on wildlife. Their destiny was sealed prior to their existence. No further management is necessary.
As for GOD judging anyone, I can't imagine anyone here inflicting intentional suffering.

 

[dlynn]

Why did you come? I thought this was a safe place for rabbit people. So far what I see from you is you bragging about bullying your wife, teaching your son to do the same, and a bunch of dialogue designed to make the rest of us feel bad about a hard but necessary part of life. (More bullying)

Rabbit dad, I'm sorry I responded to you as I did

 

[RabbitDad]

Rabbit dad, I'm sorry I responded to you as I did

Thank you. I'd like to propose that we forget about the past & move on to more productive conversation.

 

[ladysown]

The perfect way to kill an animal is the method that works for the dispatcher. Everyone, once they find a method that works for them, will say their method is best. And they will have a variety of reasons why it is the best. I've learned that regardless of my "best" method... always have a back up method handy... cause with anything in life... weird things happen and preventing pain/anguish is (well, should be) always our goal.

 

[Rabbit Warren Man]

To answer your question... curiosity.
Like I said, I don't have any issues with death. Being a Vietnam vet and retired peace officer, I've seen far more than my fair share of it.
Perhaps that's part of my problem. It's becoming dead that I have problems with.
I grew up on a ranch where is was common to slaughter livestock.
Being forced into that lifestyle, my only option was to somehow tune it out.
One event that bothers me still was I was very young & my parents got us baby ducks for Easter. From the first day, my little duck followed me around like a puppy. We even went swimming together.
While that may sound stupid or trivial to most, I really liked that stupid duck.
Then one day, after they had grown up, I returned home from school & they were gone.
Of course I asked where they were & my father told me they must have flown south for the winter.
Being a naive little kid, and the fact that it was my own father telling me, I believed it.
Until the next day when I found the heads, feet & feathers in the garbage.
I was devastated. Besides losing my friend, learning that my father lied to me really sucked. I questioned everything after that.
I don't have problems butchering, in fact I'm quite proficient at it. As the saying goes, practice makes perfect. The difference being, they are already dead.
The captive bolt is quite efficient on cattle but not 100% of the time. 1-2% doesn't go as planned.
Cows / pigs & such are pretty disgusting when dealing with them on a daily basis. They aren't cute & intelligent like rabbits. Somehow that seems to make a small difference.
Another thing you are correct about is... I am putting way too much thought into this.
I don't know exactly why but suspect it's mostly my personal history. Maybe my love & respect for animals, being a wimp... who knows?
Hopefully getting answers to my morbid questions will allow me to get past it.
FYI... My intent was only to satisfy my curiosity & learn more about properly caring for our new "pets". It was NEVER to create drama or problems here.
Thanks!

My rabbits are meat rabbits not “pets”, most people here are farm people who have grown and harvested their own food meat, vegetables etc. I find it insulting that you come here and recommend a study to dispatch a rabbit, a rabbit whose head is dislodged from its spin is a dead rabbit or any other animal for that matter.
Personally I shoot my rabbits always have no study needed they die instantly then I enjoy the meat that animal has given me.
My rabbits are very well cared for and live a happy natural life.
Thanks for your input and point of view, free speech is the bed rock of our society.

 

[RabbitDad]

There is no law "yet" that says everyone must agree on everything.
Even if we have opposing views, I'd fight to my death supporting your right to express your opinion.
I somewhat mentioned this previously... without open discussion & the sharing of ideas, we can't evolve.
Even if such a scientific study was done and a foolproof method was established, not everyone would jump on board.
Just because I'm incapable of taking another life I'm in no position to mandate or judge others for what they choose. That's not what this was about.

 

[Sisi]

Hi there @RabbitDad
Let me chime in from the other side, the experience of loosing your life. I have nearly died twice. First as a child. I was under water and my lungs full of water. It was full peace. I remember seeing big fish swimming around me but I know now there was no such fish in that small lake. I was probably hallucinating bc of losing oxygen in the brain. I was in no pain until I was pulled out of the water.
Then again at 35, I got neumonia. My lungs did not work very well. It was what is called a "silent neumonia" Not much coughing. The infection was deep in the avola. I was in hospital with only nurses about. I started to fade, I saw my dead aunt by the bedside. It was no pain, only need to sleep, no panic, just a feeling of slowly fading. I pulled through and gained consciousness and eventually recovered.( I was not given pain medication or sedatives)
I do not suggest that you drown the rabbits, just giving my insight in near death experience.
I also saw someone going unconscious not long ago. They felt a bit dizzy and sat down. Then in an instance fell over with open moth and open eyes. Luckily they were helped by professionals and survived. The person told me after that what they felt scary, was the fact that you could be gone that fast. No warning, no pain. Only dizzy, then nothing.
I think if the rabbit it knocked unconscious they are gone. I too struggle with the kill. I do cut the trough quickly and let it bleed out after the blow as I feel I can then be sure the animal is dead before I go on doing the rest of the work.
I feel more respect for what I eat now that I have this so close. I used to raise cattle but they where sent to slaughter somewhere else. In a way that is cheating, I feel now. We remove ourselves from the whole process. I did mercy kill a couple of rabbit babies in my youth. It was on instinct, as they where screaming in pain. Not fun, and very different from a planned cull. I do not think I will ever become comfortable in culling rabbits. Maybe that is just part of being human or maybe it is bc we have been removed from natural life
Nature is not perfect, often it looks harsh but compared to the insane world some humans tend to create, I will take nature any day. Good luck on your journey

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Hi there @RabbitDad
Let me chime in from the other side, the experience of loosing your life. I have nearly died twice. First as a child. I was under water and my lungs full of water. It was full peace. I remember seeing big fish swimming around me but I know now there was no such fish in that small lake. I was probably hallucinating bc of losing oxygen in the brain. I was in no pain until I was pulled out of the water.
Then again at 35, I got neumonia. My lungs did not work very well. It was what is called a "silent neumonia" Not much coughing. The infection was deep in the avola. I was in hospital with only nurses about. I started to fade, I saw my dead aunt by the bedside. It was no pain, only need to sleep, no panic, just a feeling of slowly fading. I pulled through and gained consciousness and eventually recovered.( I was not given pain medication or sedatives)
I do not suggest that you drown the rabbits, just giving my insight in near death experience.
I also saw someone going unconscious not long ago. They felt a bit dizzy and sat down. Then in an instance fell over with open moth and open eyes. Luckily they were helped by professionals and survived. The person told me after that what they felt scary, was the fact that you could be gone that fast. No warning, no pain. Only dizzy, then nothing.
I think if the rabbit it knocked unconscious they are gone. I too struggle with the kill. I do cut the trough quickly and let it bleed out after the blow as I feel I can then be sure the animal is dead before I go on doing the rest of the work.
I feel more respect for what I eat now that I have this so close. I used to raise cattle but they where sent to slaughter somewhere else. In a way that is cheating, I feel now. We remove ourselves from the whole process. I did mercy kill a couple of rabbit babies in my youth. It was on instinct, as they where screaming in pain. Not fun, and very different from a planned cull. I do not think I will ever become comfortable in culling rabbits. Maybe that is just part of being human or maybe it is bc we have been removed from natural life
Nature is not perfect, often it looks harsh but compared to the insane world some humans tend to create, I will take nature any day. Good luck on your journey

Drowning a rabbit sounds like an absolute horrible thing to do

 

[qwertyiuyt]

There is no law "yet" that says everyone must agree on everything.
Even if we have opposing views, I'd fight to my death supporting your right to express your opinion.
I somewhat mentioned this previously... without open discussion & the sharing of ideas, we can't evolve.
Even if such a scientific study was done and a foolproof method was established, not everyone would jump on board.
Just because I'm incapable of taking another life I'm in no position to mandate or judge others for what they choose. That's not what this was about.

Lol really? You threatened civil litigation and talked about how much money you have for lawfare. Clown.

 

[RabbitDad]

Hi there @RabbitDad
Let me chime in from the other side, the experience of loosing your life. I have nearly died twice. First as a child. I was under water and my lungs full of water. It was full peace. I remember seeing big fish swimming around me but I know now there was no such fish in that small lake. I was probably hallucinating bc of losing oxygen in the brain. I was in no pain until I was pulled out of the water.
Then again at 35, I got neumonia. My lungs did not work very well. It was what is called a "silent neumonia" Not much coughing. The infection was deep in the avola. I was in hospital with only nurses about. I started to fade, I saw my dead aunt by the bedside. It was no pain, only need to sleep, no panic, just a feeling of slowly fading. I pulled through and gained consciousness and eventually recovered.( I was not given pain medication or sedatives)
I do not suggest that you drown the rabbits, just giving my insight in near death experience.
I also saw someone going unconscious not long ago. They felt a bit dizzy and sat down. Then in an instance fell over with open moth and open eyes. Luckily they were helped by professionals and survived. The person told me after that what they felt scary, was the fact that you could be gone that fast. No warning, no pain. Only dizzy, then nothing.
I think if the rabbit it knocked unconscious they are gone. I too struggle with the kill. I do cut the trough quickly and let it bleed out after the blow as I feel I can then be sure the animal is dead before I go on doing the rest of the work.
I feel more respect for what I eat now that I have this so close. I used to raise cattle but they where sent to slaughter somewhere else. In a way that is cheating, I feel now. We remove ourselves from the whole process. I did mercy kill a couple of rabbit babies in my youth. It was on instinct, as they where screaming in pain. Not fun, and very different from a planned cull. I do not think I will ever become comfortable in culling rabbits. Maybe that is just part of being human or maybe it is bc we have been removed from natural life
Nature is not perfect, often it looks harsh but compared to the insane world some humans tend to create, I will take nature any day. Good luck on your journey

I'm really glad you survived... twice! And thanks for sharing your incredible story.
I'm not concerned of my own death, that should have come long ago. When it does there won't be much I can do about it.
Slaughtering animals though, we have options. And yes, I believe you are 100% correct about people here Vs assembly-line commercial slaughter or even worse, in the wild. I've witnessed both. I don't recommend watching it.
Many assume that my overexposure to death would harden me but the truth is, it resulted in the complete opposite.
Perhaps we are born with a certain allocation of tolerance. If so, I passed my limit quite awhile back.
I also realize how hypocritical it is to buy meat from the store, letting others do "the dirty work." Which is worse in many ways.
At least the animals here have decent lives up to the point of their demise. Commercial animals have far from that. They really are better off dead.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who has or is still searching for the perfect solution. It's looking like the best has already been found or never will be.
An interesting side note. Several years back I was reading some Internet BS about how vets "put our pets to sleep" (permanently) and it falsely described the process and what the three drugs do. I was dumb enough to fall for it.
I confronted our vet to confirm it.
A little background on our vet. She was born with a silver spoon & never had to work a day in her life. She's a vet ONLY to help animals... certainly not for the paycheck.
Her response to me was... "I have to sleep at night. The entire point is to humanely end suffering, not increase it." Then went on to explain the real details of the proceedure.
She stopped short before suggesting I experience it for myself.
Getting the facts from a highly trained professional was fantastic!
I haven't made it to town yet as planned, but when I do, I'll hit her up again on this topic.
Whatever I learn, good or bad I'll post here.
I'm hoping for good news. She doesn't "sugar coat" what she says, just presents the facts... like it or not. Bottom line, I trust her.

 

[RabbitDad]

Lol really? You threatened civil litigation and talked about how much money you have for lawfare. Clown.

Yes really. There is a colossal difference between varied opinions and unsubstantiated personal & family attacks.
I fail to see anything good coming from rehashing this.

 

[RabbitDad]

Drowning a rabbit sounds like an absolute horrible thing to do

Agreed, however, I don't think that was suggested.
I certainly hope nobody is stupid enough to try that.

 

[Nibbles]

I do want to remind the members that this is a in a meat rabbit forum, and the members do process and eat the meat of the rabbits.
There are other rabbit forums for those that just cannot imagine killing / harvesting the rabbits. Each rabbit harvester has their own way.

 

[RabbitDad]

I do want to remind the members that this is a in a meat rabbit forum, and the members do process and eat the meat of the rabbits.
There are other rabbit forums for those that just cannot imagine killing / harvesting the rabbits. Each rabbit harvester has their own way.

Are you implying that this is a forbidden topic?

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Are you implying that this is a forbidden topic?

They just said there's a bunch of people that talk about this and other people who don't

 

[Rabbit Warren Man]

Hi there @RabbitDad
Let me chime in from the other side, the experience of loosing your life. I have nearly died twice. First as a child. I was under water and my lungs full of water. It was full peace. I remember seeing big fish swimming around me but I know now there was no such fish in that small lake. I was probably hallucinating bc of losing oxygen in the brain. I was in no pain until I was pulled out of the water.
Then again at 35, I got neumonia. My lungs did not work very well. It was what is called a "silent neumonia" Not much coughing. The infection was deep in the avola. I was in hospital with only nurses about. I started to fade, I saw my dead aunt by the bedside. It was no pain, only need to sleep, no panic, just a feeling of slowly fading. I pulled through and gained consciousness and eventually recovered.( I was not given pain medication or sedatives)
I do not suggest that you drown the rabbits, just giving my insight in near death experience.
I also saw someone going unconscious not long ago. They felt a bit dizzy and sat down. Then in an instance fell over with open moth and open eyes. Luckily they were helped by professionals and survived. The person told me after that what they felt scary, was the fact that you could be gone that fast. No warning, no pain. Only dizzy, then nothing.
I think if the rabbit it knocked unconscious they are gone. I too struggle with the kill. I do cut the trough quickly and let it bleed out after the blow as I feel I can then be sure the animal is dead before I go on doing the rest of the work.
I feel more respect for what I eat now that I have this so close. I used to raise cattle but they where sent to slaughter somewhere else. In a way that is cheating, I feel now. We remove ourselves from the whole process. I did mercy kill a couple of rabbit babies in my youth. It was on instinct, as they where screaming in pain. Not fun, and very different from a planned cull. I do not think I will ever become comfortable in culling rabbits. Maybe that is just part of being human or maybe it is bc we have been removed from natural life
Nature is not perfect, often it looks harsh but compared to the insane world some humans tend to create, I will take nature any day. Good luck on your journey

In nature when wolves eat a moose or elk they start at the rear end and dine while the animal is alive for long periods of time. Coyotes eating a buck deer is horrifying for a human to watch because like the wolves they start at the anus the goal is to get a tare started. Then feed as the animal walks about.
When I shoot my rabbits they have no idea what’s coming.

 

[RabbitDad]

In nature when wolves eat a moose or elk they start at the rear end and dine while the animal is alive for long periods of time. Coyotes eating a buck deer is horrifying for a human to watch because like the wolves they start at the anus the goal is to get a tare started. Then feed as the animal walks about.
When I shoot my rabbits they have no idea what’s coming.

Yours is the type of method I'm advocating.
Seriously, I get it that it's natural and necessary. Merely trying to make sure we are doing our best. I say "we" in that the day may come when I'm forced to as well.
As a matter of fact, if / when the time comes that I'm personally confident that I've got a goof-proof method I'll stop being a hypocrite buying commercial meat & do it the right way.