Another Rabbit Seizure

[Zab]

this is not about the wire, is it? I personally don't like wire at all and that opinion won't change. I'm not going home to you and cut all wire floors off and I'm not commenting on the flooring whenever someone post a picture of their rabbit or their cages (I'm bad at commenting at all if I don't have any good info to share, but if I do it's a ''nice bunny!" comment, wire or not), so I think I'm entiteled to have the opinion about wire without anyone trying to convince me otherwise I have thought it through, I personally don't like it. :tomato:

Only reason I mentioned it here was because of the opposing opinion that it was unsanitary and horrible to remove the wire from the cages and use solid bottoms. (and even then I don't think those people are right for altering others property). I didn't mean that to become a big discussion either, just stating my opinion and then moving on. I don't expect anyone to change theirs, just point that there is a differense in opinions

I think they were just exploring reasons why a deep bed system might work well in Sweden, but not so well here. I'm not saying absolutely a deep bed system wouldn't work as well here, just that I think they were theorizing about it. They suddenly realized that Sweden probably doesn't experience the brutal summers we do.

It is my opinion that such a system, with the sustained heat that the vast majority of the country experiences, would be much more difficult to properly maintain here.

You are certainly entitled to dislike wire floors and say so. You are also entitled to not change your opinion about it.

But as you said, they should not be altering the cages... or the rabbits... which they are probably also doing.

I understood that but started to feel dragged into a discussion Im not prepared to participate in more deeply, so I tried to give myself a way out. Im sorry if it seemed more harsh than intended

 

[Frecs]

I understood that but started to feel dragged into a discussion Im not prepared to participate in more deeply, so I tried to give myself a way out. Im sorry if it seemed more harsh than intended

You didn't sound harsh...perhaps a bit picked on but not harsh. We just don't want you feeling picked on...you have a right to your opinion and a right to not what to rehash it over and over.

 

[Miss M]

I understood that but started to feel dragged into a discussion Im not prepared to participate in more deeply, so I tried to give myself a way out. Im sorry if it seemed more harsh than intended

Okay. No, you didn't sound harsh.

I do hope you feel accepted here, Zab. You shouldn't have to constantly be on the defensive, nor should any of the rest of us.

Each way of keeping rabbits has its own pros and cons. Also, of course, the way many of us keep rabbits is illegal there, and we understand that. While different people have different standards of cleanliness, there are some conditions which are universally condemned by the members on here.

 

[Zab]

I still hold this forum higher than most others - because I generally don't feel like a cat in a dog kennel here

I suppose sometimes experiences from activities outside a site rubs off, I've had a bit of a rough time at some rabbit places and I feel that the limit of what I can take is a bit low occasionally. I rather stop (to participate in) a discussion before I feel picked on, is all Sometimes our laws are silly, sometimes not.. but it's the laws I've grown up with. And there's always a worse and another side of the coin.

(Besides, I have re-evaluated wirefloors from 'unecessary cruelty' to 'perhaps uncomfortable and boring' in my notebook... so it's not like I yell neglect everytime I see one)

 

[Miss M]

I still hold this forum higher than most others - because I generally don't feel like a cat in a dog kennel here

I suppose sometimes experiences from activities outside a site rubs off, I've had a bit of a rough time at some rabbit places and I feel that the limit of what I can take is a bit low occasionally. I rather stop (to participate in) a discussion before I feel picked on, is all

That's reasonable... goes to the saying, "Once bitten, twice shy"... which simply means that if you've had a bad experience with something before, you're not going to be as eager to try it again. Or at least you will try it, expecting a bad experience again.

Sometimes our laws are silly, sometimes not.. but it's the laws I've grown up with. And there's always a worse and another side of the coin.

Believe me, we have plenty of silly laws to go around. There's actually a website that collects silly laws from around the world. http://www.dumblaws.com/ <-- If you need a good laugh sometime, go here and read. :roll:

(Besides, I have re-evaluated wirefloors from 'unecessary cruelty' to 'perhaps uncomfortable and boring' in my notebook... so it's not like I yell neglect everytime I see one)

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Like to add my 2 cents here...I have rabbits from this man as does a good friend of ours.. these are not cheap rabbits; starting at 100 dollars a pop..They are well cared foe and well bred, a rabbit that lives in "horrendous" conditions does not win on that show table. THEY ARE NOT for pet shops or reptiles. The photos the ara's took was AFTER the cages had been moved, so it looks like they are crowded in. YES there is fur but that is not a federal offense (yet). BTW I shop-vacced my cages this spring,a month later you wouldn't know it.You can clean a tray out and come back next morning to a pile of poo.Some of those pics are inside the van that was used to haul them away. NEXT: the 300-400 number is not of breeding animals but includes kits in the nestboxes.There are probably some does that are due soon as well, so wonder how that will go. They had a search warrant not a seizure warrant, they did not give him the full 30 days either. They waited till he was at work and took everything including 3 dogs. He has paid to get the dogs back.The ARA's claim the rabbits have urine scald... this is a DQ on the showtable. Urine scald would also affect the condition of the rabbit,but even they admit the rabbits are in good condition??!!.. Also Mini Rex especially, can be pigs and are highly prone to getting fat easily which makes for HEALTH ISSUES!! These people don't know what the hell they want and have things set up to accuse anyone of either "offense" if your rabbits doesn't have food 24/7 then you are "starving" them. If they have food all the time and are obese then you are "compromising their health" or causing disease and suffering. Someone here in Canada was charged with animal cruelty for not being able to get their obese cat to lose weight. I am hoping in this case a lot of you know what WILL hit that fan.

 

[Peach]

To avoid $22,000 in fines....

He only gets 15 back, and they must be spayed and neutered...

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/ow ... Y.facebook

This will certainly be a blow on the image of rabbit breeders. The ARBA did not step into help. I think his club is the only ones trying to help him by collecting donations for legal fees.

 

[Demamma]

This is very sad. Did ARBA give a reason why they won't help?

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Mandatory spay/neuter?!

Is this a thing? I mean, could he buy new stock and start anew? Or is that forbidden?!

 

[Cottie]

Mandatory spay/neuter?!

Is this a thing? I mean, could he buy new stock and start anew? Or is that forbidden?!

According to the article, the judge says he can't breed animals. Not rabbits. Animals.

I'm still calling more to the story.

 

[Random Rabbit]

I'm picking up just bits and snippets...."supposedly" the no breeding is only in the county where he lives. "supposedly". I'm hoping for clarification from those who attended the hearing today.

15 speutered animals would be of No use to anyone !


ARBA will Not get involved in ANY legal issues. That is not what they do. They sanction shows and keep records of Grand Champions... and other registered rabbits. period. ..They expect people to abide by the laws in their area.

 

[tailwagging]

and yet they encourage people to get USDAed and not fight the new APHIS ideas.

Hopefully Rabbit breeders will wake up and see that they are now facing what EVERY dog breeder has been facing for the last 12 years.

We MUST fight to keep rabbits livestock and NOT viewed as pets. even if you don't eat them you do NOT want them viewed legalistically as companion animals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[WildWolf]

These things make me sooo angry- I typed and deleted 3 posts because I was either too angry or couldn't express what I wanted to say. They are violating our property rights, they're hypocritical, they're trying to make it hard for us to breed, and they're so narrow-minded that they FORCE everyone to conform to their ideas!! And another thing- it's crazy how they "love" rabbits but hate breeders... if everyone spayed and neutered, and no one bred, would we have any more rabbits??

 

[Cottie]

These things make me sooo angry- I typed and deleted 3 posts because I was either too angry or couldn't express what I wanted to say. They are violating our property rights, they're hypocritical, they're trying to make it hard for us to breed, and they're so narrow-minded that they FORCE everyone to conform to their ideas!! And another thing- it's crazy how they "love" rabbits but hate breeders... if everyone spayed and neutered, and no one bred, would we have any more rabbits??

Repeat after me: voluntary human extinction

The human race couldn't survive as vegetarians. Some would, but most would die. And they know this.

 

[phillinley]

Whether you think it is bs or not, if you don't raise large herds outside of the city (and outside of counties that have large municipalities), this will continue to happen as long as you have crappy neighbors. Even if you have good neighbors now, they could move next month and a crappy neighbor could move in. You can't very easily have a hog farm or cattle farm in a major city either. Abuse of personal property is not restricted to just animals, cities screw over individuals poperty rights on a daily basis through all their bs zoning laws. If you want even a hint of freedom outside of your house head for the city limits and live on property zoned agricultural.

Another thing others have mentioned, no way in hell should Indianapolis ever get another convention.

 

[Miss M]

This is so distressing.

 

[Random Rabbit]

if everyone spayed and neutered, and no one bred, would we have any more rabbits??

If one does a little searching... That is their whole plan. NO breeding of animals by humans. NO contact with animals by humans. NO "Exploitation" of animals Ever for Whatever reason by humans.

When that happens we will live in cities populated by humans only, while all the animals roam wild and free in the country with all of creation singing "Kum-by-ya" ( sarcasm off now... )

 

[Bad Habit]

if everyone spayed and neutered, and no one bred, would we have any more rabbits??

If one does a little searching... That is their whole plan. NO breeding of animals by humans. NO contact with animals by humans. NO "Exploitation" of animals Ever for Whatever reason by humans.

When that happens we will live in cities populated by humans only, while all the animals roam wild and free in the country with all of creation singing "Kum-by-ya" ( sarcasm off now... )

And this always brings me back to : One of these ARA's needs to look at how my dog is treated, and tell me exactly who is exploiting who. Same with my buns, and probably the buns of every member here... Healthy, sleek, little moochers, the whole lot of them.

 

[Frecs]

And this always brings me back to : One of these ARA's needs to look at how my dog is treated, and tell me exactly who is exploiting who. Same with my buns, and probably the buns of every member here... Healthy, sleek, little moochers, the whole lot of them.

I am definitely being exploited by my animals -- the dogs, the chickens, the ducks, and the rabbits...exploiters all. I'm there to serve their needs....

Moochers is a very good word for them, too!

 

[trinityoaks]

And this always brings me back to : One of these ARA's needs to look at how my dog is treated, and tell me exactly who is exploiting who. Same with my buns, and probably the buns of every member here... Healthy, sleek, little moochers, the whole lot of them.

That's the trouble: THEY DON'T CARE!!! In their eyes, your animals aren't roaming wild and free, therefore, you are exploiting them. :furious: :rant: