When to breed a recovering rabbit?

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Br. Fidelis Ebeyer

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So we have a rabbit recovering from syphilis. She had a really bad case; she was neglected for way too long; we didn’t really know what we were doing… thanks to this site I knew exactly what to do. I gave her a 0.01/ lb. dosage for 5 days. She recovered wonderfully; the results were almost immediate. I now have her on 1 shot per week. My question: can we breed her? She doesn’t have any major symptoms. Her nose is still kinda pink and raw looking but other than that basically nothing. I really don’t want to taint our sole buck, but it’s a shame to have a doe sitting around unproductive. What should we do?
 
Can you find a local friend with a buck ready for the freezer to breed then butcher?
I’m not necessarily interested in a new buck… I just wanted to know if it’s safe to breed the recovering doe. There’s no point in having her sitting around doing nothing but I can’t risk possibly infecting the buck.
 
I’m not necessarily interested in a new buck… I just wanted to know if it’s safe to breed the recovering doe. There’s no point in having her sitting around doing nothing but I can’t risk possibly infecting the buck.
I think they mean you have a Buck to breed her with without putting risk to your own
 
So we have a rabbit recovering from syphilis. She had a really bad case; she was neglected for way too long; we didn’t really know what we were doing… thanks to this site I knew exactly what to do. I gave her a 0.01/ lb. dosage for 5 days. She recovered wonderfully; the results were almost immediate. I now have her on 1 shot per week. My question: can we breed her? She doesn’t have any major symptoms. Her nose is still kinda pink and raw looking but other than that basically nothing. I really don’t want to taint our sole buck, but it’s a shame to have a doe sitting around unproductive. What should we do?
Rabbit syphilis is a bacterial disease which is treatable with penicillin, so after 5-10 days of appropriate antibiotic treatment she should no longer harbor the bacteria and should be safe to breed. (Which is not to say she's ready to breed - that depends on her condition). If you see signs that she has a recurring infection, of course that would be a different situation.

To be on the safe side, for both her and the buck, I'd be inclined to wait until her lesions have completely healed; that way her body is not making decisions about allocating resources to her own healing versus growing babies. Having a compromised doe temporarily out of production is not the same as having a healthy doe out of production.

But I'm not at all sure about the one shot per week... Maybe there is some protocol that I'm not aware of, but once you have eliminated the infection, continuing intermittent antibiotic therapy sounds like a good way to eventually encourage antibiotic resistance in any number of other bacteria.
 
I would be very leary personally of breeding a rabbit that has snuffles/ rabbit syphilis as our research says it can be treated and kept undercontrol in the rabbit but the disease is not irradicated just suppressed. The rabbit though showing no symptoms can pass to babies which can show symptom early or in later months. So if you are breeding and selling your kits I personally would disclose that the mom has been treated for this disease or not breed that animal. Pets can be maintained with monitoring and treatment when needed, but putting carriers of snuffles out into other barns can spread the disease like wildfire. We have a large breeder in our area that is vaccinating does for snuffles and then suppressing symptoms in the kits which are showing symptoms with meds before selling them. It looks like the breed stock all vacced has become resistant to the vaccine. That breeder is potentially infecting numerous barns. The recommended practice if a rabbit shows symptoms that could be snuffles like sneezing, running nose, or weeping eyes (or worse white discharge, pustules on the body) It should be immediately quarantined away from the other rabbits and if it sickens further, culled. Any rabbit that is sneezed on or around, or bred will be exposed. People have had to cull their whole barns to stop this horrible disease so really think about breeding this rabbit carefully and consider keeping her away from other animals if you are going to keep her. There are four different at least bacteria possible with snuffles but all I think are considered std's, but you'll have to check me on that. Best wishes!
 
I would be very leary personally of breeding a rabbit that has snuffles/ rabbit syphilis as our research says it can be treated and kept undercontrol in the rabbit but the disease is not irradicated just suppressed. The rabbit though showing no symptoms can pass to babies which can show symptom early or in later months. So if you are breeding and selling your kits I personally would disclose that the mom has been treated for this disease or not breed that animal. Pets can be maintained with monitoring and treatment when needed, but putting carriers of snuffles out into other barns can spread the disease like wildfire. We have a large breeder in our area that is vaccinating does for snuffles and then suppressing symptoms in the kits which are showing symptoms with meds before selling them. It looks like the breed stock all vacced has become resistant to the vaccine. That breeder is potentially infecting numerous barns. The recommended practice if a rabbit shows symptoms that could be snuffles like sneezing, running nose, or weeping eyes (or worse white discharge, pustules on the body) It should be immediately quarantined away from the other rabbits and if it sickens further, culled. Any rabbit that is sneezed on or around, or bred will be exposed. People have had to cull their whole barns to stop this horrible disease so really think about breeding this rabbit carefully and consider keeping her away from other animals if you are going to keep her. There are four different at least bacteria possible with snuffles but all I think are considered std's, but you'll have to check me on that. Best wishes!
Rabbit syphilis isn't the same as snuffles.

Rabbit syphilis, aka vent disease, spirochetosis, or treponematosis, is caused by the spirochete bacterium Treponema paraluis cuniculi, which travels in the blood. It is not a respiratory illness, but is most definitely an std, being passed most often by mating, though contaminated materials can also result in the spread. The rabbit's nose is not usually snotty, rather it can be crusty and scabby because the infection, which produces crusty lesions and scabs around the vent, causes the same to appear around the nose, mouth, eyelids, and sometimes even the feet, when the animal grooms itself and transfers the bacteria to those sites.

On the other hand, snuffles is a common name for pasteurellosis, which is caused by the bacteria Pasteurella multocida, a gram-negative coccobacillus. It produces upper respiratory disease and infections in eyes, ears, nose, bones and internal organs. Symptoms include labored breathing and a characteristic thick white snotty mucous that appears on the nose and often also inside the front legs as the rabbit tries repeatedly to clean its nose. It is a penicillin-sensitive bacterium but many people believe infected rabbits carry and spread it for life, even after treatment. Note, however, that many, perhaps even all, rabbits carry Pasteurella bacteria, but only some individuals contract an infection.

Not all runny noses or respiratory illnesses in rabbits are pasteurellosis, though; while rabbits aren't known to get viral cold infections like humans, nonetheless I can tell you they do get what look like colds, as well as hay fever-like allergies, without having pasteurellosis. The only way to be 100% sure that a rabbit with a snotty nose has pastuerellosis is to get a culture.
 
I’m not necessarily interested in a new buck… I just wanted to know if it’s safe to breed the recovering doe. There’s no point in having her sitting around doing nothing but I can’t risk possibly infecting the buck.
I mean that you would breed with a bu k who is about to be processed anyway, so no risk of passing any infection on. So breed with a meat buck who is ready to go anyway. Immediately after breeding, the buck goes tonfreezer camp.
 
Rabbit syphilis isn't the same as snuffles.

Rabbit syphilis, aka vent disease, spirochetosis, or treponematosis, is caused by the spirochete bacterium Treponema paraluis cuniculi, which travels in the blood. It is not a respiratory illness, but is most definitely an std, being passed most often by mating, though contaminated materials can also result in the spread. The rabbit's nose is not usually snotty, rather it can be crusty and scabby because the infection, which produces crusty lesions and scabs around the vent, causes the same to appear around the nose, mouth, eyelids, and sometimes even the feet, when the animal grooms itself and transfers the bacteria to those sites.

On the other hand, snuffles is a common name for pasteurellosis, which is caused by the bacteria Pasteurella multocida, a gram-negative coccobacillus. It produces upper respiratory disease and infections in eyes, ears, nose, bones and internal organs. Symptoms include labored breathing and a characteristic thick white snotty mucous that appears on the nose and often also inside the front legs as the rabbit tries repeatedly to clean its nose. It is a penicillin-sensitive bacterium but many people believe infected rabbits carry and spread it for life, even after treatment. Note, however, that many, perhaps even all, rabbits carry Pasteurella bacteria, but only some individuals contract an infection.

Not all runny noses or respiratory illnesses in rabbits are pasteurellosis, though; while rabbits aren't known to get viral cold infections like humans, nonetheless I can tell you they do get what look like colds, as well as hay fever-like allergies, without having pasteurellosis. The only way to be 100% sure that a rabbit with a snotty nose has pastuerellosis is to get a culture.
Thus said…

Should I breed her? Unlike our other does. She’s actually been a mother before so I’m hoping for more promising results from her. We first started treatment on 6/30 and I gave her a shot per day for 5 days. She looks good for the most part. Her nose does seem a tad pinkish and raw although that may not be syphilis related. Due to the heat, our buck is only interested in mating at 5-6 am during the coolest time of day… I don’t have a whole lot of opportunities here.

Thanks for all the advice and experience!
 
Thus said…

Should I breed her? Unlike our other does. She’s actually been a mother before so I’m hoping for more promising results from her. We first started treatment on 6/30 and I gave her a shot per day for 5 days. She looks good for the most part. Her nose does seem a tad pinkish and raw although that may not be syphilis related. Due to the heat, our buck is only interested in mating at 5-6 am during the coolest time of day… I don’t have a whole lot of opportunities here.

Thanks for all the advice and experience!
Since her infection responded so well and quickly, I'd feel pretty good about having correctly diagnosed and treated the problem. I'd probably wait til her nose was healed and no longer looked raw, if nothing else just to keep her body from having to split resources between healing and gestation. (Her nose doesn't have to be completely furred in, just healed.) Hopefully you thoroughly disinfected her cage and anything else she's been in contact with. Then, if she doesn't have any other issues and is at a good weight, I would feel comfortable about breeding her.

Did she ever have lesions on her vent, and if so, are those completely gone? And do you have any idea where she might have picked up the infection - did she come with it?

And can mosquitoes get at the rabbits? That might be another explanation for a raw, pink nose.

There is always a possibility of uncovering an antibiotic resistant strain, or of having a rabbit reinfected by whatever gave her the infection in the first place, so it would make sense to keep checking her and all of your rabbits regularly.
 
Here is an excellent vetrinarian article on snuffles along with (warning) gravic photos. The concern amongst rabbit breeders dealing with snuffles is that it can be passed through the breeding process and the kits can also be infected or carriers. In the sense that certain strains can be passed through breeding is why I referred to it generally as a std. I agree it mainly presents as a respiratory issue. It is a very serious disease in rabbits and as Satin and other said, your doe and your other rabbits should be monitored carefully for any signs of recurring symptoms. Pasteurella (snuffles) in rabbits
 
Here is an excellent vetrinarian article on snuffles along with (warning) gravic photos. The concern amongst rabbit breeders dealing with snuffles is that it can be passed through the breeding process and the kits can also be infected or carriers. In the sense that certain strains can be passed through breeding is why I referred to it generally as a std. I agree it mainly presents as a respiratory issue. It is a very serious disease in rabbits and as Satin and other said, your doe and your other rabbits should be monitored carefully for any signs of recurring symptoms. Pasteurella (snuffles) in rabbits
It doesn't sound like @Br. Fidelis Ebeyer is dealing with snuffles.

But as far as Pasteurellosis, the thing that doesn't make sense about culling and/or permanently quarantining a rabbit which has had symptoms and recovered (and libeling a breeder that doesn't do that), is that most or all rabbits are exposed to P. multocida organisms at some time in their lives. Even the link posted above reports this, and the fact that it's nearly impossible to predict which rabbits are going to contract disease after such exposure (although it also refers readers immediately to the House Rabbit Society website, which makes me instantly less confident in everything else they post on their page). Anyway, one theory is that those rabbits which don't evidence symptoms have immune systems that are able to fend off an actual infection when they encounter the bacteria - an encounter which, apparently, is nearly inevitable.

Maybe I'm missing something, but... if most rabbits are already exposed, why is it so important to cull or permanently isolate recovered individuals? I can support not breeding rabbits with current infections that are shedding huge amounts of bacteria; sustained intense exposure to just about any pathogen can overwhelm even a vigorous immune system. But while an asymptomatic recovered rabbit may carry a small population of the bacteria, why is that critical and dangerous, if the organism is already so prevalent in the environment that most rabbits have already been exposed?

I don't know anyone who has lost an entire herd, or even most of their herd to snuffles, though I've heard about people that have euthanized entire herds in response to the threat of the disease. I may or may not have had rabbits with snuffles in my barn in the last 20-some years; I've had rabbits with suspicious symptoms, but can't say for sure since I've never had a culture done. But I have never used antibiotics to deal with runny noses (or anything else for that matter) in my rabbits. I would also not consider euthanizing an entire herd over a pathogen, because there always seem to be some individuals which are resistant to whatever organism it is, and those are the ones I want and need to produce a disease-resistant herd.

People have many different perspectives and approaches to dealing with health and illness in their animals, and it's up to each to determine his or her own practices. It's fair for a prospective buyer to inquire about the approach used by a particular breeder. In my barn, rabbits that develop anything unusual in their respiratory behavior, like snotty noses or a rattle in their breathing, that doesn't respond to VetRx and/or GSE and lasts longer than a few days, are culled, because you get what you breed and I don't want rabbits that get sick. In recent years that has happened so infrequently that I can't precisely remember the last instance. I swap stud services with two other breeders, one of whom brings rabbits up from the Lower 48 regularly, and my rabbits are in and out of the barn every other month or so for shows and extended stays at Fairs. I am probably a biosecurity expert's nightmare, yet my animals are overwhelmingly healthy. I keep in contact with most of the people I sell stock to, and I have not had any reports of respiratory problems from any of them. It has just not been a big issue up here, and I suspect it's because instead of using a vet-oriented approach of meds and isolation, most of us breed for robust health (some by personal preference, others because vets are a rare and expensive luxury here).

A resource on snuffles that is a little more optimistic than the previously posted links is here:
https://afterthoughtsblog.net/2013/11/treating-rabbit-snuffles-without-vet.html/
@MaggieJ also has a good synopsis here: Noisy breathing
 
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There's loads of medical research on rabbits, and a quick search for 'rabbit & penicillin' may produce some medical texts. AFAIK (although I'm not a vet and don't even play one on TV) penicillin isn't going to keep a doe from being bred. If she's in condition then there shouldn't be a problem with her being bred.

Since she's been getting penicillin for five days, most of the bacteria should be gone. If she were my rabbit, she'd get a weekly dose for one to three weeks just to clear out any possible remaining bacteria. AFAIK (although, again, I ain't no vet) there's quite a bit of leeway in how much penicillin a rabbit can have before it becomes a dangerous level.

Since you only have one buck, though, if she were to transmit Vent disease to him, he'd turn around and give it to the rest of your breeding herd. But, if you're willing to risk it, then she should be able to be bred.

Vent disease can result in very low litter counts or no litter at all. If they've had the disease, they may be less fertile because of it, I think I've heard. But, it's your rabbits. If you do breed the doe, keep an eye on the buck to see if he shows any signs of it afterwards.

Several years ago, we had the disease here. The entire herd was treated all at the same time so in case there was a rabbit who had it but wasn't showing signs, they'd be treated as well. It was a lot of shots of penicillin, but it still didn't even use up half the bottle of penicillin. It's sold in cow sized doses which in body weight equals a LOT of rabbits. So it was a bother, but not terribly expensive.
 
There's loads of medical research on rabbits, and a quick search for 'rabbit & penicillin' may produce some medical texts. AFAIK (although I'm not a vet and don't even play one on TV) penicillin isn't going to keep a doe from being bred. If she's in condition then there shouldn't be a problem with her being bred.

Since she's been getting penicillin for five days, most of the bacteria should be gone. If she were my rabbit, she'd get a weekly dose for one to three weeks just to clear out any possible remaining bacteria. AFAIK (although, again, I ain't no vet) there's quite a bit of leeway in how much penicillin a rabbit can have before it becomes a dangerous level.

Since you only have one buck, though, if she were to transmit Vent disease to him, he'd turn around and give it to the rest of your breeding herd. But, if you're willing to risk it, then she should be able to be bred.

Vent disease can result in very low litter counts or no litter at all. If they've had the disease, they may be less fertile because of it, I think I've heard. But, it's your rabbits. If you do breed the doe, keep an eye on the buck to see if he shows any signs of it afterwards.

Several years ago, we had the disease here. The entire herd was treated all at the same time so in case there was a rabbit who had it but wasn't showing signs, they'd be treated as well. It was a lot of shots of penicillin, but it still didn't even use up half the bottle of penicillin. It's sold in cow sized doses which in body weight equals a LOT of rabbits. So it was a bother, but not terribly expensive.
I tried to breed this morning… nothing happened. Maybe it’s providential if she is indeed convalescing. Is her disinterest a sign of feeling under the weather? But if she does conceive, would the penicillin in her system affect her offspring? These are meat rabbits so we do plan on harvesting the offspring eventually. How long do I wait post treatment to ensure the antibiotics are out of her system?
 
I tried to breed this morning… nothing happened. Maybe it’s providential if she is indeed convalescing. Is her disinterest a sign of feeling under the weather? But if she does conceive, would the penicillin in her system affect her offspring? These are meat rabbits so we do plan on harvesting the offspring eventually. How long do I wait post treatment to ensure the antibiotics are out of her system?
She may just be recovering still, she can be low energy for any number of reasons, even without the vent disease. I would just wait a few days or a week and try again.

Penicillin is rated as safe to use during HUMAN pregnancy, so at its proper dose it is not likely to be a problem for rabbits.

As for withdrawal times before harvest, standard is about 7-14 days. It clears the system pretty fast, that is why it is recommended to be taken daily during most antibiotics courses.
 
I'd be real careful about antibiotic dosage. Creating a resistant virus would really suck.
Logic suggests that a rabbit that had been infected, yet since recovered, "should" have antibodies to fight reinfection... aka immunity.
Such immunity "should" be passed through mother's milk. At least I hope so.
FYI I'm not a medical doctor, I merely role-played as one in my younger lifetime. 😉
 
I'd be real careful about antibiotic dosage. Creating a resistant virus would really suck.
Logic suggests that a rabbit that had been infected, yet since recovered, "should" have antibodies to fight reinfection... aka immunity.
Such immunity "should" be passed through mother's milk. At least I hope so.
FYI I'm not a medical doctor, I merely role-played as one in my younger lifetime. 😉
RabbitDad makes a really good point--Use the right dose for the right length of time, not more or less. Dosing too low over a long time is EXACTLY how antibiotic resistance is created, both on the farm and in the lab.
 
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