What other genes produce a silver effect?

[PSFAngoras]

Okay, so I picked up a pair of JW this afternoon, and though they are black with white guard hairs that are fairly evenly distributed through out the coat, they don't have many of them on their face. I know that not all silvered rabbits have a lot of silvering on their faces either, but I'm not sure that they have the silver gene or if there are other genes known for contributing such an even silvering affect. It is not a lot, but it is most definitely there.

Unfortunately, I have no pictures for you guys to look at to help out either, they were so matted I had to shear them both the minute I got them in the door. With their light grey undercoat, you can't see the white guard hairs.

Also, could someone please describe the Silver gene to me a little better? I know it basically causes some of the guard hairs to black out white through the whole hair shaft. What confused me is something I read here about the champagne d'argents and how their silver gene is amplified. Is it because the gene is like the Vienna gene, where it can be co-dominant (VV - normal, Vv - sport, vv - BEW) or is it just dominant/recessive?

New to the genetic side of this and its amazing, but its also confusing... And I love it

 

[Dood]

Vienna carriers can have a lot of white hairs in the coat. My black Vienna marked ND looks silvered except for her sky blue eyes give her away.

Silver tipped steel can also look silvered and it is one of my favorite colours.

Rabbits with the silver gene are born black, they slowly get silver/white hairs as they shed out their baby fur and can look quite blotchy during this process. There are other less understood modifiers that intensify the silvering, sort of like Rufus factors in red rabbits, and these are what the D'Argents have been bred for.

Rabbits who get one silver gene may or may not have white hairs, it depends on the mofifiers, so Silver Fox crosses may look black and carry the silver gene but a D'Argent cross with only one gene can be very silvered if they got the modifiers from their D'Argent parent as well.

 

[PSFAngoras]

Thank you. Can they end up with a silver effect from the Vienna gene and not inherit the blue eyes? I know they're not steels because there is not enough ticking, and also the white does go down the entire hair shaft to the skin, not just the ends like my lilac steel angora doe.

 

[Dood]

Sounds like the Vienna gene.

Just one Vienna gene can have many different effects on rabbits that are not well understood. Some rabbits show no signs they carry it until they have kits with weird white marks. Some will be nearly perfect but for a white toe or snip on the nose, some look like part or purebred dutch, others can be taken for brokens or have so much white they look like Hotots and still others get scattered white hairs usually the ones with more white get the blue eyes, but not always.

 

[skysthelimit]

I wish you had some pictures, because with the JW, it's possible you are seeing neither the Vienna or Si gene. Steel and Vienna are not always that consistent. And it's just possible that the bun has the wrong color of something. I have a black Rex with a white undercoat. There's not necessarily something hinky going on, as my breeder would say "junk in the trunk." A bad recessive gene.<br /><br />__________ Sat Jul 27, 2013 10:05 pm __________<br /><br />The only real way to know is to test breed.

 

[PSFAngoras]

They both came from the same place, they both are very heathy looking, and the doe hasn't been bred in 7 months, so I bred them when I got them home. The lady I got them from had never got him to breed before. When I was checking him out before purchase, I noticed one of his testicles is deformed. It's doesn't look sickly, its just about 1/4 the size of the other. He was more than willing though. Will have to wait to see if it took. I suck at palpitating them. Sometimes I feel kits, sometimes I don't...

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The deformed testicle could be atrophied due to injury. I have had bucks in growout pens damage one another's testes, and when the scrotum heals, the damaged testicle will be smaller or irregular in shape.

The JW's may just have scattered white hairs, but that is as far as I can help in the genetics department. My deceased black JW doe Summit had some scattered white hairs, but none on her face or feet.

 

[Cottie]

Rabbits with the silver gene are born black, they slowly get silver/white hairs as they shed out their baby fur and can look quite blotchy during this process. There are other less understood modifiers that intensify the silvering, sort of like Rufus factors in red rabbits, and these are what the D'Argents have been bred for

This sounds like one of mine, except she's also developing more chocolate as she gets older.

 

[skysthelimit]

It could be a scar.

 

[PSFAngoras]

I do think the testicle could have been injured at some point. The lady I got them from picked them up from the pound, and they had been dumped there by someone who found them wild.

As far as the white hairs, its not a scar. It is most definitely a silvered effect, as it is all evenly distributed all over the body of the rabbit, its just not present on the tail, feet, ears and mask.

 

[skysthelimit]

I do think the testicle could have been injured at some point. The lady I got them from picked them up from the pound, and they had been dumped there by someone who found them wild.

As far as the white hairs, its not a scar. It is most definitely a silvered effect, as it is all evenly distributed all over the body of the rabbit, its just not present on the tail, feet, ears and mask.

We need pictures, please. This is very fascinating. My Silver Foxes have slivering everywhere except the ears and mask.

 

[PSFAngoras]

I can take pictures if you'd like, but you can't see the silvering right now. I had to shear them down with all the mats they came with, and with the light gray undercoat all of the silvering blends in. I'll do my best, but it will have to wait till i get off work, only at lunch right now.

__________ Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:45 pm __________

Okay, here;s some pics of the woolies, as well as one of a silver fox rabbit that has a similar distribution pattern...

__________ Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:46 pm __________



__________ Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:48 pm __________

<br /><br />__________ Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:50 pm __________<br /><br />

 

[skysthelimit]

Looks a lot like one of my Silver Martens, without the tan pattern eye and ear markings.

Darn, guess we will have to wait till the Wool grows back.

__________ Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:21 pm __________

I also saw a bun that was so heavily marked that it didn't look like a broken, except the salt and pepper like markings.

 

[Northern Sky]

I have a black buck and a chocolate doe French Angora who both just molted and their new fur is coming in with tons of white strands mixed in on their bodies but none on their faces. I never noticed any of the white hairs before they molted. They are siblings so it could be genetic. They are out of a black and a chocolate tort according to the pedigree.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

That is just what is called "scattered whites" It would be undesirable on the table as a DQ or a fault, not sure which for JW's

 

[PSFAngoras]

They won't be shown. They are strictly for my own personal wool production, and I will breed them here and there to sell the kits for pets, as the parents are unpedigreed. Not to mention the dwarf rabbit hype that is going around here, I have a hard time selling my larger rabbits. This may be a way for me to make up some of my rabbits' costs. I'm not against dwarfs, but they're not my favorites. Also, I figured since I paid to rescue these two that I might as well keep them. Well, that and the wool is darker than what I'm getting off my angoras. A new color!!!