What are the colors?

[Joanie]

Hello,

i'm from germany and i need help with the determination of the color of my rabbit kits. Sorry for my bad english, im not a native speaker. Here are some photos of the kits, i would be glad if you could tell me what colors they will get.











Thanks for your help.

Greetings Joanie

 

[Cedar Point Rabbitry]

Afraid I can't help you, but those colors are sure neat! Plus the kits are cute

 

[Susie570]

The colors might have different names in Europe and it would also be helpful to know the breed.

The first kit appears white in the photo. If it has shades points we will need to see better pictures and what colors are it's eyes?

The second kit looks like it might be a dilute harlequin... but I'm not even sure that's a valid color (I'm new at colors).

The third kit does appear to be a tort, but it's a little hard to tell without seeing their faces.

Not sure on the other two, but we have some color experts on here.

 

[Joanie]

Also the mother ist blue tort white, her genetic is: aa B? Cc dd ee du Vv Sasa





The father ist tort white or havanna tort white, his genetic is: aa Bb (bb?) C? Dd ee du Vv Sasa rex





Some rabbit babys have silvering. The eye color of the babys I can not see
at this time, i think its blue.

 

[Susie570]

They're obviously lops of some kind... very unusual looking rabbits (at least for us in the States!)

Strangely, both parents look like they have Holland patterns (the white collar) and I was just wondering if there are any 'Holland Lops' (lops with a Holland pattern), haven't seen any... until now

The father obviously has some Rex genetics.

Are they mixed breed rabbits, or are they certain breeds of rabbit? I've never seen anything like them. Pretty though!

 

[Dood]

My guesses

Blue Eyed White - aa __ __ __ ee vv

Vienna marked Blue sable point - aa B_ cchl_ dd ee Vv

Vienna marked Blue tort - aa B_ C_ dd ee Vv

Black tort - aa B_ C_ D_ ee V_

Black tort - aa B_ C_ D_ ee V_

I cannot help with the fur types

 

[Joanie]

Hello,

@ syberchick70
The rabbits are NHD - Nederlandse Hangoor Dwergen.

@ Dood
Thank you for your assessment. I also think that the color of the last two babies (photo 4 and 5) are black tort and no chocolate tort. By the way, they have brown eyes.
The Baby of photo 3 has blue eyes and I also think it's vienna marked blue tort with Satin.
The Babys of photo 1 and 2 have also blue eyes, they are also vienna marked. But the Baby of photo 1 isnt blue eyed white. I send a photo of this baby, where you can see his belly. Its very light blue.



Can it be that the baby photo 1 and photo 2 are the same color, but with a baby very dark blue and a baby is very light blue?
How do you know that it is vienna marked blue sable point (cchl) and not vienna marked blue sallander (cchd) or vienna marked lilac tort (aa bb C? dd ee - the name in germany is separator). How can I distinguish it?
:bunnyhop:

 

[Susie570]

Dood really knows his colors

As for the white kit, I will say that it's very difficult for us to see the blue shading you're talking about. It's probably just the lighting, but to properly assess the color of the kit, we will need to clearly see any shaded areas and probably know the eye color.

 

[Dood]

Sallanders are darker than sable points which is why I believe it's aa B_ cchl_ dd ee

Yes, kit 1 could be a paler version of a blue sable point but is lilac point ( aa bb cchl_ dd ee) possible? Is there any chocolate in their history or have chocolates been produced before?

 

[Joanie]

@ Dood

Also the genetic code from the mother are clear. I do not know her parents, but she had several litters. Only with chocolate she was never bred. It can be BB or Bb, i do not know. Her genetic code is aa B? Cc dd ee du Vv Sasa.

The breeder from the father told me, that the father is vienna marked chocolate tort. But he looks more like vienna marked black tort. Please take a look at his photo.

The parents of the father of my litter are supposed to have the following colors:

The mother's color was chocolate Japanese Satin. Here is a photo of her.



The father's color was vienna marked lilac tort. Here is a photo of him.



Here is a photo of the complete litter.



And here a photo from the father of my litter while he is 5 and 10 weeks old.






Can the father be a very dark vienna marked chocolate tort? In any case, he wears chocolate by his father or not?

 

[Dood]

I do not think he is chocolate tort but a black tort, and carrys a chocolate gene since I am certain his mother was a chocolate

You'll just need to wait and see what colour kit # 1 developes or if a chocolate is born in a subsequent litter to figure out if the mother carries chocolate

 

[Susie570]

If both parents of the father are chocolate, he would have to be chocolate, wouldn't he? I'm not certain the dam is chocolate, but I'm no color expert. The sire does look lilac and the father of your kits would be confusing to me.

I thought torts had to have all darker points, such as around their nose and eyes where your rabbits are white around their nose and feet.

 

[Dood]

Correct, "if" both parents are chocolate then only chocolates, or lilac, are possible, but the father is not lilac, just a washed out blue tort, so the son is can be black tort instead.

The white is just another colour layer - the vienna gene in this case, on the V - locus - that is modifying the base colour of tort

 

[Joanie]

@ syberchick 70

Yes you are right. If both parents are chocolate, then the baby can be only chocolate. But I already doubted, because as you can see in the photo with the complete litter from the Father, there are very dark Japanese are probably black are based. And my buck looks more like a black tort.

@ Dood

I have made new photos of the babies. Maybe you can better see the color now. Please take a look at this photos.

Photos of Baby 1 - blue sable point/lilac sable Point or blue sallander/lilac sallander?







__________ Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:03 pm __________

@ Dood

Photos of Baby 2 - blue sallander/lilac sallander or blue tort/lilac tort?







__________ Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:06 pm __________

@ Dood

Photos of Baby 3 - chocolate tort/black tort? Here I think it's black tort.

 

[Susie570]

I do think the first kit looks like a blue sable point from those shots (again, please take Dood's word over mine!! I'm still learning).

I think kit 2 looks like... maybe a blue harlequin? (with the white) and I see tan in its coat, but not much. You have tricky babies!! It's fun guessing though.

3 I'm guessing black tort (and I'd love to have it, if it were a mini lop!! lol)

 

[Joanie]

@ syberchick 70

Thank you that you give tips. Everything helps. I have never had such colors in a litter. I know a little about genetic, but I'm also still learning. Therefore, I am grateful for any help.

The black tort baby is really very cute, but it is not minilop. It is a buck and his mother is a NHD and his father was a rex dwarf widder.

 

[Dood]

Oooh

Kit 1 is starting to look like a vienna marked blue sallander

= aa B_ cchd_ dd ee Vv

The others still look like a blue tort and black torts

 

[Joanie]

@ Dood

Thank you very much for your really great help.
I have one more question.
When i looked at the photos, i noticed that the Baby in black tort in the side has a very dark black stripes.
Can it be that the baby is an black based japanese with markers from the tort?

 

[Dood]

It is possible that the kits is a very minimally marked harlequin but then the father or mother MUST have the japaneses harlequin gene.

I see the buck had harlequin siblings so he is a likely source but I do not see any marks on him

 

[Joanie]

@ Dood

Yes, you're right, one parent must have the japanese harlequin gene, if the baby is supposed to be japanese.
The mother is definitely not japanese but blue tort.
So it might just be the father. His mother is chocolate japanese, it would be possible. I also do not see any marks on him . But maybe it was with him just as with his baby. You can see now on the side of the baby marked of the japanese. When the baby grows up, you will not see it because it is hidden by the marking of the black tort? Its very difficult.
The father was marked as a baby very bright. Maybe you have not seen it, therefore, that he is a japanese and no a tort.