Vitamins in rabbit feed?
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SyP
Well-known member
Probably because of freshness. The fresher the feed the better, when it comes to vitamins, plus your rabbits will eat more of the feed if it's fresh = Bigger rabbits. :mrgreen:
ottersatin
Well-known member
Hello Punch,
everything a rabbit needs is provided by
a good quality Pelleted Rabbit Feed,
this includes vitamins. The rabbit feed
loses it's nutritional value after three months.
The fresher the feed the better.
If you are feeding a few rabbits and cannot
use the feed within three months, you can extend the
length of time by bagging smaller [ten pound] portions
in plastic bags and placing them in a freezer
until they are to be used.
Ottersatin.
ldtimer:
everything a rabbit needs is provided by
a good quality Pelleted Rabbit Feed,
this includes vitamins. The rabbit feed
loses it's nutritional value after three months.
The fresher the feed the better.
If you are feeding a few rabbits and cannot
use the feed within three months, you can extend the
length of time by bagging smaller [ten pound] portions
in plastic bags and placing them in a freezer
until they are to be used.
Ottersatin.
ldtimer:
because they don't have to be and printing on a bag costs more money.
Animal feeds do not have to follow the same strict rules that human products do. The small bags bought in pet stores often have a long list of vitamins and minerals in the feed but you're paying $10 for a 5 pound bag. My 50lb bags of rabbit food only have the legally required basic ingredients and guaranteed analysis to save on ink.
Dood thanks for trying to answer my question, anyone know how much of each vitamin is in rabbit feed. I expected people in this section to know. How can yall feed naturally without a guideline of what vitamins rabbits need and in what amounts?
Here is a link to a 2004 paper on recommended nutrients for maximum production of rabbits with a large table of ingredients and amounts.
http://cuniculture.info/Docs/Documentat ... Puebla.pdf
http://cuniculture.info/Docs/Documentat ... Puebla.pdf
Those of us who are feeding naturally do not use pellets. Most of us feed alfalfa and grass hay, whole grains and gathered forage and other fresh foods. There is no magical formula... We feed our rabbits as people did before pelleted feed was on the market. Fresh foods provide plenty of vitamins for the rabbits. We also provide a trace mineral salt block to give the rabbits the minerals they need.
If you are feeding pellets and want to know more about the nutrients in them, most companies will supply a full list by email upon request.
If you are feeding pellets and want to know more about the nutrients in them, most companies will supply a full list by email upon request.
Frosted Rabbits
Well-known member
Punch":uf65q0dp said:
We can feed a natural diet because we offer the rabbits VARIETY. We look up the genreal information on a plant - example: dandelions and alfalfa are good sources of dietary calcium. Most green, leafy vegetables are good for vit A, the oragnge and yellow colered veggies are a source of beta carotene-- the precursor for Vit A, Rose hips, berries, a source of vit C ( rabbits do make vit C in their bodies)
We also provide vit/mineral blocks to cover our bases- in my area,, one needs to supply selenium if one wants to feed naturally, AND raise litters on a regular basis, because selenium is lacking in the soils (I think it is more of a case of not being avaialble to the plants due to chemical farming practices)
WE cannot stress enough, the importance of variety-- it is just as important when feeding ANY species a natural diet as it is for us. Even wtih a largely natural diet, some of us supplement with pellets- it helps ensure everything needed is recieved...
My rabbits will turn their noses up at pellets during the natural feeding season here-- this year, I hope top be able to dry a large amount of forage for them to use over the winter...
Dood":jf67gc7z said:
I was familiar with the Lebas paper, if I remember correctly Lebas doesn't show any data on using alfalfa I wonder why that is. I think alfalfa is good for production of rabbits so I wonder why he doesn't show any information about it.
Maggie don't you believe if we had a better understanding of what vitamins rabbits need we'd be able to get better grow out rates, like for example feed a certain amount of each plant to control how much of each vitamin they are getting so each day they got their daily needs. I've heard that Alfalfa makes about 40%(min) of pellets and 30%(max) grains and the other 30% is made of Soy(for protein) and mixture of vitamins and minerals.
FrostedRabbits wouldn't it be better if we could balance their diet knowing exactly what they need? What do you supplement selenium with?
I would like to add that since rabbits are vegetarians they usually are not lacking in water soluble vitamins and the excess amounts are sent out in their urine. They can be short in minerals as they do not have access to dirt to eat or woody plants that use minerals to create their tough stems and bark.
Their fat soluble vitamin needs are usually met by eating their cecotropes.
The biggest problem in feeding naturally is meeting protein needs as plants are generally protein poor. The exception is some grain seeds and legumes like alfalfa, peas, and beans. Rabbit feeds use soybean meal to boost protein levels in pellets but it is not an ingredient commonly found at the store.
Their fat soluble vitamin needs are usually met by eating their cecotropes.
The biggest problem in feeding naturally is meeting protein needs as plants are generally protein poor. The exception is some grain seeds and legumes like alfalfa, peas, and beans. Rabbit feeds use soybean meal to boost protein levels in pellets but it is not an ingredient commonly found at the store.
Many are against using Soy as a protein source, and remember that rabbits are herbivores and I believe I read somewhere that rabbits can store vitamins in there bodies. Wouldn't meat rabbits have trouble eating their cecotropes since most are raised in hung cages?
I also read somewhere against feeding beans to rabbits?
Does anyone know what purpose would commercial feeds use the ratio I discussed earlier of 40%min alfalfa and 30%max grains? Besides controlling the calcium to phosphorous ratio?
I also read somewhere against feeding beans to rabbits?
Does anyone know what purpose would commercial feeds use the ratio I discussed earlier of 40%min alfalfa and 30%max grains? Besides controlling the calcium to phosphorous ratio?
ottersatin
Well-known member
Would meat rabbits have trouble eating their cecotropes
since most are raised in hung cages?
Not a problem at al Punch,
as rabbits eat their cecotropes directly from their anus.
the ones you see on the cage floor are the ones they
do not require or have inadvertently missed.
I hope this helps to clear that up.
Ottersatin.ldtimer:
since most are raised in hung cages?
Not a problem at al Punch,
as rabbits eat their cecotropes directly from their anus.
the ones you see on the cage floor are the ones they
do not require or have inadvertently missed.
I hope this helps to clear that up.
Ottersatin.
ldtimer:
lucern is alfalfa
Some species of raw beans can be toxic and others at least cause digestive upset. Soybeans are roasted or leached before being ground and added to feeds.
I am not familiar with that ratio.
The protein level seems pretty high considering SBMeal is 40% protein so only 12% would be needed to boost a low alfalfa protein of 12% to 17%.
In my feed wheat middlings are the second ingredient and they are not a grain but the husk and bran and stems left over from removing the seed. They are basically a fibre/roughage ingredient.
The fat levels are less than 5% so I cannot see that much grain in the mixture either as oats are 15% fat. Grains typically have 10% to 15% protein and add different amino acids than those found in alfalfa and SBMeal. Eating only one type of plant protein will not give you a balanced amino acid profile.
That ratio I got from a reliable source, and it says min alfalfa 40% and max grains 30%. The source I got it from wasn't an American source but they raise meat rabbits and that's what they use but they don't specify why and what vitamins and minerals their pellets have.
Punch, I really believe you are over-thinking this. I admire your thirst for knowledge, but I bet you are spending much more effort trying to balance the rabbit diet than you do on your own diet.
Why do you keep harping on pellets? Feeding pellets is not natural feeding and if you have questions about feeding commercial rabbit pellets, it would be more appropriate to ask them in the Rabbit Care forum.
The wild European rabbit thrives on the very weeds that are so invasive here in North America. Look at the Safe Plants sticky for an idea of the weeds and tree trimmings we feed for fresh forage.
safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html
It only scratches the surface of good plants available, but it included a wide variety... and as Frosted Rabbits points out, feeding a variety ensures that the rabbits get the vitamins they need.
Alfalfa hay is important to many of us because it provides the protein needed for the rabbits to breed well through the winter. Here it is cheap and I have access to high quality alfalfa hay from a local farmer for $3.25 a square bale.
When I was new to rabbits, back in 2005, I asked on another forum if I could safely feed fresh alfalfa. Oh, don't do that, I was told, they get it in their pellets. What about grain like wheat, oats or barley? I asked. Oh no! they get it in their pellets. So I asked why not just give them the alfalfa and grain and fresh greens which I was already giving them with great success. I was going to stunt my rabbits, kill my rabbits. I was a terrible person even for suggesting it.
Next, I contacted the manufacturer of the rabbit pellets I was feeding and asked for an ingredients list. To my horror I found that the pellets contained animal tallow. This was totally unacceptable to me, so I began transitioning the rabbits to a more natural diet. I've never looked back.
Yes, the rabbits take longer to reach butchering size: 14-16 weeks instead of 10-12 weeks. But the overall cost per pound is half what it was when I was feeding pellets and the rabbits are healthy and happy, and the meat is far nicer than pellet-fed rabbit. I will never feed pellets again.
Punch":2kzyh4hy said:
Why do you keep harping on pellets? Feeding pellets is not natural feeding and if you have questions about feeding commercial rabbit pellets, it would be more appropriate to ask them in the Rabbit Care forum.
The wild European rabbit thrives on the very weeds that are so invasive here in North America. Look at the Safe Plants sticky for an idea of the weeds and tree trimmings we feed for fresh forage.
safe-plants-for-rabbits-list-t55.html
It only scratches the surface of good plants available, but it included a wide variety... and as Frosted Rabbits points out, feeding a variety ensures that the rabbits get the vitamins they need.
Alfalfa hay is important to many of us because it provides the protein needed for the rabbits to breed well through the winter. Here it is cheap and I have access to high quality alfalfa hay from a local farmer for $3.25 a square bale.
When I was new to rabbits, back in 2005, I asked on another forum if I could safely feed fresh alfalfa. Oh, don't do that, I was told, they get it in their pellets. What about grain like wheat, oats or barley? I asked. Oh no! they get it in their pellets. So I asked why not just give them the alfalfa and grain and fresh greens which I was already giving them with great success. I was going to stunt my rabbits, kill my rabbits. I was a terrible person even for suggesting it.
Next, I contacted the manufacturer of the rabbit pellets I was feeding and asked for an ingredients list. To my horror I found that the pellets contained animal tallow. This was totally unacceptable to me, so I began transitioning the rabbits to a more natural diet. I've never looked back.
Yes, the rabbits take longer to reach butchering size: 14-16 weeks instead of 10-12 weeks. But the overall cost per pound is half what it was when I was feeding pellets and the rabbits are healthy and happy, and the meat is far nicer than pellet-fed rabbit. I will never feed pellets again.
skysthelimit
Well-known member
Great post Maggie.
If there is one thing I've learned from feeding the dogs a natural diet, is balance over time, not calculated at every single meal.
If there is one thing I've learned from feeding the dogs a natural diet, is balance over time, not calculated at every single meal.
Yea I have read about the feed you would feed that contained animal tallow, and also about the square bale for 3.50, how much does your square bale weigh?
And I'm asking about nutrients in pellets because if we could feed similarly then we'd get better grow out rates at the cheaper prices that feeding naturally costs.
Also keep in mind that some vitamins and minerals have to be in certain ratio so if we knew that information then it'd be better for our rabbits and us as well. I don't believe I am overthinking it, it should actually be interesting for us to know more about the nutrition of our rabbits.
And I'm asking about nutrients in pellets because if we could feed similarly then we'd get better grow out rates at the cheaper prices that feeding naturally costs.
Also keep in mind that some vitamins and minerals have to be in certain ratio so if we knew that information then it'd be better for our rabbits and us as well. I don't believe I am overthinking it, it should actually be interesting for us to know more about the nutrition of our rabbits.
MamaSheepdog
Well-known member
If you can afford the time and research to make natural feeding an exact science, by all means do so.
So far, my life has been too busy to devote the time! I would actually like to formulate a seed mix for natural raisers to utilize in their rabbit gardens.
Keep in mind that factors such as the nutrient profile of the soil will affect the nutrient values in any plants fed, so it will vary by region.
So far, my life has been too busy to devote the time!
I would actually like to formulate a seed mix for natural raisers to utilize in their rabbit gardens. Keep in mind that factors such as the nutrient profile of the soil will affect the nutrient values in any plants fed, so it will vary by region.
