Vitamins in rabbit feed?

[MaggieJ]

Yea I have read about the feed you would feed that contained animal tallow, and also about the square bale for 3.50, how much does your square bale weigh?

About 40 pounds.

And I'm asking about nutrients in pellets because if we could feed similarly then we'd get better grow out rates at the cheaper prices that feeding naturally costs.

Not really. When I was feeding pellets, the fryers had a lot of fat... pure waste, as far as I am concerned. Now they have just a little around the kidneys... and that is how it should be. Besides, I much prefer the flavour of naturally fed rabbit meat.

What is it they say? You can have it fast, you can have it good, you can have it cheap. Choose two.

Also keep in mind that some vitamins and minerals have to be in certain ratio so if we knew that information then it'd be better for our rabbits and us as well. I don't believe I am overthinking it, it should actually be interesting for us to know more about the nutrition of our rabbits.

This applies to people as well as rabbits. Do you analyze what you eat to that degree? If so, my hat is off to you. Most people don't!

Natural feeding is not for everyone. It's a lot of research, a lot of work and a lot of time... and the advantages are more qualitative then quantitative. Hope you find a balance that works well for you.

 

[Punch]

Yea I have read about the feed you would feed that contained animal tallow, and also about the square bale for 3.50, how much does your square bale weigh?

About 40 pounds.

And I'm asking about nutrients in pellets because if we could feed similarly then we'd get better grow out rates at the cheaper prices that feeding naturally costs.

Not really. When I was feeding pellets, the fryers had a lot of fat... pure waste, as far as I am concerned. Now they have just a little around the kidneys... and that is how it should be. Besides, I much prefer the flavour of naturally fed rabbit meat.


What is it they say? You can have it fast, you can have it good, you can have it cheap. Choose two.

Also keep in mind that some vitamins and minerals have to be in certain ratio so if we knew that information then it'd be better for our rabbits and us as well. I don't believe I am overthinking it, it should actually be interesting for us to know more about the nutrition of our rabbits.

This applies to people as well as rabbits. Do you analyze what you eat to that degree? If so, my hat is off to you. Most people don't!

Natural feeding is not for everyone. It's a lot of research, a lot of work and a lot of time... and the advantages are more qualitative then quantitative. Hope you find a balance that works well for you.

No I definitely don't analyze what I eat. Feeding naturally doesn't have to be an exact science but I do believe that we can somehow do it better if we knew what was in rabbit feed.

 

[Dood]

The main ratio farmers are concern with is calcium to phosphorus, it should be 2:1 in most food animals to avoid brittle bones. Domestic plants have a LOT more phosphorus than wild ones and corn is very high in the element and a main ingredient in most animal feeds but in not rabbit pellets. In fact alfalfa is high in calcium and for this reason it is not suitable for horses or hogs but rabbits have s unique ability to tolerate a 12:1, Calcium : Phos ratio with few ill effects.

__________ Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:35 pm __________

I gave you a link to a table of recommended quantities of essential nutrients, what more do you want?

 

[MaggieJ]

Get in touch with the manufacturers, Punch. All pelleted feeds are not created equal. Find one that is good and ask for both the ingredients list and the nutrient analysis. That's what I did. Unfortunately, I did not like what I found out.

I did take a look to see if I could find the information in my files, but it seems it is gone... Not sure what happened there but I can't find my whole rabbit file. :shock:

 

[Punch]

Anyone else heard that rabbits can tolerate a ratio of 12:1 calhos as Dood pointed out?

 

[MaggieJ]

There's a project for you, Punch! You research it!

 

[skysthelimit]

Sorry, even with pelleted feed, with it's 'guareenteed analysis' feeding is not perfect, and not all feeds suit all rabbits. I am still trying to find a feed that will meet the needs of all of my different breeds. If the scientist that formulate these feeds cannot make it more exact, I don't have the extra time to do so.

 

[MaggieJ]

Good points, Sky!

Another problem with the nutritional analysis on commercial feeds is that they may be accurate when it leaves the factory, but prolonged or poor storage will result of loss of vitamins, especially A and E. It's been a long time since I've bought pellets... Do they have an expiry date on them?

 

[Punch]

I have researched and I don't think I've ever seen a ratio like that before and the forum is here to discuss stuff like this. I don't know a lot and many people reading don't either and by discussing we learn. And it seems like everyone is going against me telling me its not a precise science just like they went against Maggie when she suggested if she could feed hay or grains, and now its what she raises her rabbits with.

 

[MaggieJ]

We are not going against you, Punch... but you do seem to clamp your teeth into a subject and shake it to death. A discussion implies an exchange of information, not a bombardment.

Most of us arrived at our feeding methods over a period of time, by trial and error, using common sense and aided by the traditional wisdom of centuries of rabbit raising. There is a selection of vintage books on raising rabbits that you can "buy" with the BunnyBucks you are earning with your posts. Go to the menu bar at top and click on EBOOKS. You could also work your way backward through the old posts to glean what you can from them, if you are really interested in natural feeding.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

It is not that we are against you- it is simply that we haven't done the in depth research you are hoping for. As I mentioned above, I would LOVE to offer a seed mix so people could grow a balanced diet for their rabbits. But I simply have not had the time to do the research.

Rabbits are pretty good at knowing what they need at a given time, which is why most natural raisers offer a variety daily. For instance, I have catnip growing all over the place- a veritable plague of it- and I want very badly to feed it to the rabbits (except pregnant or lactating does because it inhibits milk production), but they absolutely refuse to eat it. However, I had a doe with the beginning stages of mastitis, and she gobbled it up.

When you feed a variety of weeds, you will notice that they favor certain types one day and ignore them the next.

You might call your county extension agent. They are very helpful in my experience, and may be able to help you, especially with regard to plants that grow well in your area and any soil deficiencies.

 

[Miss M]

The analyses and ingredient lists can vary quite widely for pellets. In general, feed store pellets will be nutritionally better for rabbits than pet store pellets and other pet store rabbit foods. In general, the cheapest feed store pellets will contain a good amount of undesirable ingredients, and even the mid-grade pellets will be far superior.

The analysis of pellets will change with time and storage conditions.

The analysis of alfalfa and any other natural food will change with time and storage conditions. It is also very dependent on the analysis of the soil in which it is grown. For alfalfa and other hays, the analysis also depends on which cutting of the hay you have. Alfalfa is cut 3, sometimes 4 times in a year, and each cutting has a slightly different analysis. It can even change depending on the time of day you harvest.

Some plants have more of something in the morning than in the evening. "This plant contains a lot more oxalic acid in the morning; pick in the evening for a less tart flavor," one plant I bought said. I looked into growing Digitalis in case I needed to provide it for my mom someday... there's no way. It must be done by a lab. Not only do the levels of the drug change in the plants over the course of the day, not only do they vary from plant to plant even at the same time, the levels vary from leaf to leaf on the same plant at the same time!

All of that is probably partly responsible for the uncertainties in the labeling of pellets. "Max" this, "min" that. They can't say for sure what the exact analysis is, unless they print a different label for each batch. Instead, they probably just test a representative sample now and then to make sure it is at least this much, and not more than that much.

Not all rabbits have exactly the same requirements. Requirements change based on climate, for instance. Some find that they can use 16% pellets for everybunny no matter what. Others have to feed 18% to pregnant and nursing does, or they lose condition or have litter troubles. I fed Purina Complete for several years... a feed that is not really highly regarded here. However, my rabbits did great on it. Others have had all sorts of troubles with it.

I just finished a 6-month experiment using a locally produced horse feed for my rabbits. My rabbits did alright on it. Not as well as on pellets, but not bad overall. I've just finished transitioning them back to pellets. SatinsRule tried the same thing a long time ago. He lost almost all of his rabbits. Others raise show-quality rabbits on horse feed, and at a lower protein level than the one I was using.

I think it's just not consistent enough to really make something exact out of it.

 

[skysthelimit]

I think it's just not consistent enough to really make something exact out of it.

That is my exact point.

To make it more exact, you would need a lab created vitamin/mineral supplement to add to any diet, pellet or natural, with water soluble vit/min, so each individual rabbit can get what it needs exclusively.