Telly why... sell for $5?

[phillinley]

Since when are we talking about helping people?

I have. The entire thread.

Why do you sell for $5?

Me: To help people.

Everyone else: But I don't understand?

Me: Because I don't care about the money.

Everyone else: But I don't see how.

Me: The concept is not hard to grasp.

If someone needed a rabbit for food, giving it away would be the thing to do. That is NOT the comparison here. You can't even come close to guilt tripping me for wanting real money for my animals. IF that was the case, we should not sell anything, let's run around and find people who need it more than we do and give it all away. In that case, I need a car, anyone got one for free?

I dunno why you are having a problem getting this. I'm not guilt tripping you into doing jack. I don't give a flip what YOU do, and I completely understand that what you do with your rabbits is your business and can see your perspective on not selling them for little or nothing. I'm not giving them away for food, I'm giving them away for anything.

 

[Bad Habit]

Since when are we talking about helping people?

I have. The entire thread.

Why do you sell for $5?

Me: To help people.

Everyone else: But I don't understand?

Me: Because I don't care about the money.

Everyone else: But I don't see how.

Me: The concept is not hard to grasp.

When you post a rabbit for sale on CL for anyone and everyone to buy, how do you know you are helping people? How do you know that the person buying your rabbits isn't intending to take advantage of your generosity?

I give away my rescue rabbits, unless I am in desperate need of rabbit food or other supplies. I post them for sale for $20, and until the new owner comes to pick them up, they think they are paying for the rabbit. Once they arrive to take the rabbit, cash in hand, I tell them that I will not be taking their money.

 

[tailwagging]

the OP said nothing about CL nor adverting them for $5.00. only asked WHY some sell them for $5.00.
I don't advertise them for $5.00 but I have sold them for that and less, for free.

 

[phillinley]

the OP said nothing about CL nor adverting them for $5.00. only selling them for $5.00

Exactly. I would never post rabbits on craigslist. Eww gross.

 

[tailwagging]

I have but in the farm and garden were they belong. for the regular price.

 

[Bad Habit]

the OP said nothing about CL nor adverting them for $5.00. only selling them for $5.00

Exactly. I would never post rabbits on craigslist. Eww gross.

How do you sell your rabbits then? With one of those classy "rabbits for sale" signs on your front lawn? How do you prevent your $5 rabbits from being impulse buys that end up neglected and abandoned? How do you screen your buyers and ensure the rabbit is going to a good home?

 

[tailwagging]

how can you be sure that the $35.00 or the $50.00 or $150.00 rabbit isn't going to be neglected or abandoned?

fact is you can't. money is nothing to some.

I think if i were a bunny i would rather take a chance at getting a home then not given a chance at all because i might be abandoned.

 

[phillinley]

the OP said nothing about CL nor adverting them for $5.00. only selling them for $5.00

Exactly. I would never post rabbits on craigslist. Eww gross.

How do you sell your rabbits then? With one of those classy "rabbits for sale" signs on your front lawn? How do you prevent your $5 rabbits from being impulse buys that end up neglected and abandoned? How do you screen your buyers and ensure the rabbit is going to a good home?

We sell them at rabbit shows. We go to about 15 of them a year so it's not hard to get rid of our show rabbits that way. This way we get to meet the person face to face. I've never sold sight unseen (or didn't already know on a forum for a long time). The tire kickers in that environment are pretty low, when it comes to actually coming up and talking to you about them. The price is on the cage, people walk around all day seeing the rabbits. If they want one, they can come talk to us about it, we'll go over it's strengths and weaknesses, does it fit in with your rabbitry, and then how many would you like vs how many you can afford. Only can afford one? Well let's try to set you up with a trio instead. You'd like to get in the breed but can't afford it? Here's a pair. I don't advertise they are free at a show, but they just become that way many times after talking to people and feeling out their situation.

 

[Bad Habit]

how can you be sure that the $35.00 or the $50.00 or $150.00 rabbit isn't going to be neglected or abandoned?

fact is you can't. money is nothing to some.

I think if i were a bunny i would rather take a chance at getting a home then not given a chance at all because i might be abandoned.

I talk to the people. I don't rush the rabbits out the door, there is a minimum of 4-5 days between contact and picking up the rabbit, during which I discuss how to care for their potential new pet, costs, etc. It's called screening a purchaser.

 

[tailwagging]

all well and good but they still can lie to you.
people will say anything to get what they want.

 

[Peach]

i guess because it is cheap to get a really good rabbit in common breeds(under $300.00) most just go that rout. instead of the really hard work of rare breeds.

this thread has shown that

1. if you don't sell your rabbit for what they are worth, then they are crap rabbits. that you mustn't care nor value them if sell them at a lower price.

2. that there is something wrong with you if you don't freezer camp those genes if you can't get your money

3. and who cares if a rare breed goes out as long as we feel high and mighty about "keep the best and cull the rest"
better cull these cl mutt finds

4 oh and a "pet breeders" are too low to know how to breed.
guess what, most rabbits breeders were pet breeders before becoming show breeders.

1. Doesn't mean they are necessarily crap , but to some random stranger, yes, price CAN make a difference with the inexperienced. I've seen crap go for stupid money and I've seen great quality go reasonably. Unless you know a top/experienced breeder off the back or born into a family of national winning stock, the likelihood of having a good eye for quality stock is very slim. At the end of the day we make our prices, and we choose who we want to by from.

2. Nobody said their was anything wrong with anyone for not freezer camping. It's just ultimately the best way to eliminate inferior stock from re entering the gene pool. I don't know how many times I've turned down sales because people just want to purchase my pet stock in pairs to make more pet stock. I do not stand behind breeding just pets. With 30,000 ARBA members all breeding,making babies, etc... I stand behind not breeding just pets, but I won't tear someone down for doing it. It's a choice. There are people that are down right nasty when it comes to it and nobody on RT has shown any bad behavior towards those that do.

3. Nobody said anything about rare breeds going out either and nobody is trying to be high and mighty... Culling out poor examples will preserve a breed. Even if you have to outcross. I don't mind if people outcross and make others aware of it. Some of the dying breeds NEED it if their gene pool is too small. If all rabbits in your herd have pinched HQ, long shoulders,a weak loin, etc and there is no quality animals within the breed to improve it, you need to bring the genetics from somewhere to improve. It just won't come out of thin air.

4. No one said every pet breeder is bad and not knowledgeable. I don't support just pet breeding but I'm not going to bash someone either. Its common courtesy to be respectful of others choices. To each their own. I had one pet litter before I even knew you could process them (living the average life never raising livestock but rode horses and had my own garden), and fortunately, they all found a good homes and I still keep in contact with their families. I did have one with bad teeth and a few runts that I didn't feel would be good pets, and they went to our pet snake. Then, I did research, learned about showing, buckled down, and made choices to focus for the table and to provide someone who has been waiting patiently for several months for something from my rabbitry.

 

[phillinley]

I talk to the people. I don't rush the rabbits out the door, there is a minimum of 4-5 days between contact and picking up the rabbit, during which I discuss how to care for their potential new pet, costs, etc. It's called screening a purchaser.

That's a good strategy for minimizing neglecters. Show screening works kinda like that to. At the show, a lot of that is made easier on me because not only does the buyer get to see my rabbits, I more importantly get to see their rabbits. If their rabbits look neglected and ratty (not heavy molt, everyone blows a coat, just ratty), if they handle them over aggressively getting them in and out of the cages, they aren't getting my rabbits. Granted someone could dress up their rabbits quite well the week before a show, but it does whittle down the people who are so bad with their rabbits they don't even care what they look like at shows. People who go to show in the first place have already shown they are more committed to proper animal husbandry that the average rabbit owner, so that's also helpful. I say this all while still acknowledging these are just limited possibilities of a neglectful owner, knowing that anybody, no matter how neatly polished, can be a bad rabbit owner.

 

[tailwagging]

Culling out poor examples will preserve a breed.

this depends on what you call poor examples. 4th out of 15? 7th out of 23? 5 out 7 what? it differs for people.
if i have better in my barn that rabbit, that nice rabbit, might be placed. if i need cage space for an up come show bun that rabbit that has been shown but doesn't have any legs might be placed. even though it may have been due to molt.
are these poor examples?

if i have granded a buck yet need that space to put his son so i can have enough non gch bucks to make a leg and maybe place his mom with out losing her bloodline, i might place him.

yes even for $5.00 bucks (remember $5.00 can get me a rotisserie chicken at Sam's club. that i can make 4 or 5 meals from)

 

[Demamma]

I just deleted my replies because I realize this topic is getting nowhere and hard feelings are starting to develop. Here on rabbit talk we all strive to do what we feel is best for our rabbits. It's obvious that a lot of misunderstanding and such is going on. Some of the topic we flat out disagree with each other. I feel it's best to agree that we all feel different about this subject and move on.<br /><br />__________ Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:35 pm __________<br /><br />I have a lot of respect for a lot of people on this forum. We all strive for improvement and that is what is important

 

[Elsbet]

I have a small rabbitry full of excellent, pedigreed, rare breed foundation stock that I didn't pay a cent for. We have ONE rabbit that was paid for. One of my bucks, a crème d'argent, has 5 show legs. Some of my does have placed well at shows, too. I don't personally show at this time, I'm still learning the ropes with crèmes and with raising rabbits in the south.
One of my family's goals is to teach others about caring for themselves- how to homestead on a small property, with small stock. How to get the most bang for the buck. We also have a passion for critically endangered heritage breeds of all livestock.
Despite the fact that my entire rabbit herd was basically free, (including many of the cages!) that does not mean AT ALL that we do not appreciate them, their line, or their worth.
My son accidentally put our brun buck in with our Californian doe. He thought the brun was a doe, and he was having problems with the buck's cage during a feeding time. We are going to have mixed kits very soon. I doubt they'll be worth more than $5 a piece when they come. We might eat them, we might sell them. If they go for $5, that's a gallon of milk for my kids. A payment on a healthcare bill. Mad money in the clearance section of a craft store.
The thing is, value for the dollar doesn't mean ANYTHING anymore. Prices are attached willy nilly to items, and it doesn't matter what you produce, you aren't going to get what it is worth. When I tally up my hours and materials on a piece of hand tatted lace, or a crocheted doily, or a skein of handspun yarn, or an Appalachian style basket, I am not going to make back my money. Period. Going by the "fair pricing guides" for artists, my doilies tend to range in the hundreds of dollars. Some easily tip into the thousands, depending on thread weights. How do I reach the 1%? I live in a depressed area. Even selling online, I can't get the worth of my items. So I sell lower, and just take out the value of the item in the therapeutic effect of doing the handcrafting, and knowing I produced quality. That is value to me.
The same may go for the rabbits. If I cannot get more than $5 for them, I'm still putting a good deal of manure into the garden, I've had the enjoyment of raising the kits, and maybe someone has just gotten a great deal on a breed they want to get into, but couldn't otherwise afford. I can't MAKE a purchaser appreciate anything I produce. If the rabbit is unappreciated, that's sad. If someone takes one of my doilies home to use as a dipstick rag, that's their problem. I don't need to know the fate of what I've sold. It's not my business when it has left my possession at the price I chose to ask.

__________ Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:47 pm __________

That said, with my angoras, I'm a freak. I will ONLY sell to spinners who understand or are willing to learn how to properly care for an angora coat. I've done too many rescues on neglected angoras, and that is a MESS.<br /><br />__________ Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:55 pm __________<br /><br />btw, I got into my rabbits through a CL ad for a goat... which was also sold for a pretty low price. I think both parties were satisfied with the results of that...

 

[Honorine]

*Sigh* In the old days, before people feared being raided all the old timers had beautiful rabbitry/rabbits for sale signs that were proudly displayed on their front lawn. I only know of one old Flemish breeder who has one now, and its old and peeling. Sad sign of our times. I've sold rabbits for 5 bucks, rare breeds even, I still remember this perfect but tiny fawn Silver doe a few years ago, don't think she was going to make 4 lbs, was so happy to have her go to a pet home. Her silvering was exquisite, she was so feline and perky, putting her in the freezer never crossed my mind. I did also donate a bunch to my local raptor rescue that year, but not her, she was a perfect little gem. I would happily sell special rabbits for $5 to good homes, or even free. I often give rabbits to a friend who takes them to auction, if she gets a lot she gives me some money, if not its her gas money and I no longer have to feed them. She does the same thing, sells what she can for a considerable amount, but doesn't hesitate to send off rabbits she didn't manage to sell, even when they did have big price tags on them. She does quite fine with this mentality, its good economics. Since I've done a bunch of the rare breeds, and been around a lot of them as well, and so am quite familiar with some of the crossbreeding that has gone on I have an insight into the situation. This whole 'Silver Foxes' have been ruined train of thought I find very interesting, because if it is true it has not been perpetuated by pet breeders, no its been done by show breeders trying to enlarge the gene pool, but they chose poor crosses. Like when some not so swift breeders decided to use Beverens to cross with Blanc De Hotots, not a great idea. I've seen just as many 'responsible show breeders' screw up as lowly pet or meat breeders, and their mistakes hang around a lot longer. Thinking your 'saving' a rare breed from those who are not worthy by destroying your years of work instead of passing it on is such a waste, breaks my heart, as I'm a very dedicated rare breeds supporter, and its this kind of thinking that hurts rare breeds, it doesn't save them. I mean look at the success story of the Americans, it was only thru the hard work and dedication of a core group of breeders that the gene pool was opened up and shared, remember the Great American Drift? These breeders greeted everyone with open arms and made a huge difference in the breed, and Americans are still gaining ground. They didn't worry if someone was 'worthy' to raise their breed, they knew they had to get Americans into as many hands as possible, and they did an incredible job. I see the Blanc De Hotot people struggling to save their breed, they are happy to introduce new people to their breed in the hope that more will take Hotots on, and their not 'vetting' these people out prior to selling to them. What matters is a desire to try and see if the breed is a good fit, hopefully it is and the breed will have another staunch supporter. The thought of any other breeder questioning my ethics, dedication and worthiness prior to even selling me a rabbit boggles my mind, particularly a rare breed. I fall all over myself trying to promote my breed to all comers, hoping I'll strike a chord with them somehow. I push other rare breeds to perfect strangers, breeds I no longer raise, such as Creme D Argents, because while I chose not to continue with them I happily suggest them to others and extoll their virtues, because perhaps they will try them and love them. That is what matters, that is how you save rare breeds, not by hoarding your genetics and judging others unworthy to raise your chosen breed. Not picking on anyone, but I've seen genetic bottlenecks in rare breeds, and its not pretty. Rare breeds need all the good genes they can get.

 

[Dood]

not by hoarding your genetics and judging others unworthy to raise your chosen breed.

I didn't get this vibe at all, except from the people looking for $5 rabbits who seem to be accusing others of doing this.

I bet if Demamna could find a passionate breeder, or newby, who shared her view on breed development she would give them her buns for free or at a reduced rate. Just my impression.

And breeds can come back from a bottle neck. My show dog breed was in the Guinness Book of World Records in the '60's as the world rarest breed and are still rare and regardless of the extreme inbreeding (their numbers were NOT increased by out crossing) they are one of the healthiest and even tempered breeds out there because inferior stock was ruthlessly eliminated from the gene pool!!! It's crappy breeders breeding more crap with floating platella's, missing teeth, eye disease, fearful or high strung or just nasty attitudes, etc... that has ruined more popular dogs like Mini Dachshunds, Toy Poodles and Shih Tzu's

I thank god my dog is a rare breed so I didn't have to sift through all the junk out there in the more popular ones.

Dont believe me, just try and find a Ibizian Hound with hip displasia or an Affenpincher with skipping knees.

The same can be applied to rabbits and unfortunately the Silver Fox seem to have gone from being rare to popular overnight and the breed has suffered for it, not improved IMHO.

 

[tailwagging]

dogs are not livestock. most don't eat their dogs.
there are some Ibizian Hound with HD and Affenpincher with bad PATELLA
just not many breeders will not speck up so the numbers look low. (in both the mode of inheritance is not fully known)
http://www.offa.org/stats.html#breed

any who if you want to go there would you consider euthanizing a litter of good quality pups because someone couldn't get what they think is the right amount of $$$, good for those breeds?
wouldn't it be better to find good homes for a reduced price?

that said
i am done.

 

[Dood]

dogs are not livestock.

but the genetics is still valid for both species.

most don't eat their dogs.

apparently not many people are eating their rabbits either since they'd rather sell them for $5 than cull.

just not many breeders will not speck up so the numbers look low

:lol: Seriously! It's a big conspiracy eh? The community breeding these dogs is so small that ANY health issues are quickly addressed and ELIMINATED by removing the offending animals from the gene pool. Anyone breeding dogs known to carry genetic diseases would quickly be ostracized and cut off from other bloodlines. There are very few secrets, especially with modern social media, in theses groups. I can trace my dogs pedigree back to the 60's and since the Internet I have access to pictures of her relatives at my finger tips and in many instances their heath records as well. Good breeders are proud to show off that their dogs do not have any heritable diseases and if it does crop up in a litter they apologize and won't do the breeding again and ensure the animal is not registered so it can never get back into the gene pool, regardless of how many champions are in its background.

any who if you want to go there would you consider euthanizing a litter of good quality pups because someone couldn't get what they think is the right amount of $$$, good for those breeds?

perhaps I need to be more clear - "ruthlesly culled" = euthanized !

wouldn't it be better to find good homes for a reduced price?

NO! That's my point! That is how dogs end up with backyard breeders, in puppy mills, or producing Malti-poos, Jugs, and other mutts. This has happend to the Silver Fox- many are actually Nilver Fealands and people are trying to recreate the authentic Silver Fox from mutts. It can be done, but not very easily, and only if you eliminate inferior rabbits from the gene pool and because rabbits are not dogs, very few of them are spayed or neutered and will be bred, especially if they are a rare and in demand breed that someone sold to them for $5 but that they can sell for $20.

I agree with Demamma that this thread is going nowhere. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[tailwagging]

any who if you want to go there would you consider euthanizing a litter of good quality pups because someone couldn't get what they think is the right amount of $$$, good for those breeds?

perhaps I need to be more clear - "ruthlesly culled" = euthanized !

wouldn't it be better to find good homes for a reduced price?

NO! That's my point! That is how dogs end up with backyard breeders, in puppy mills, or producing Malti-poos, Jugs, and other mutts. This has happend to the Silver Fox- many are actually Nilver Fealands and people are trying to recreate the authentic Silver Fox from mutts. It can be done, but not very easily, and only if you eliminate inferior rabbits from the gene pool and because rabbits are not dogs, very few of them are spayed or neutered and will be bred, especially if they are a rare and in demand breed that someone sold to them for $5 but that they can sell for $20.

I agree with Demamma that this thread is going nowhere. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I know I said I was done but
your point is if you can't get the $$$ for even those good pups, kill them.
now that is the pure definition of a puppy mill.