Sneezing! What does it mean, help please?

[DarayTala]

I noticed my colony rabbits have been sneezing lately and am very worried, having heard many horror stories about losing whole herds to an illness. I had heard them sneeze on the rare occasion since I first got them, but it was so infrequent and they had no other symptoms, so I assumed it was dust from when I would change their straw or something of that sort. Lately they've begun to sneeze more frequently, but I'm not sure if they are showing any other symptoms. The only other thing I can think of is that my buck is a little bit thin. I attributed that to my partner accidentally not feeding them enough each day when I was gone for a few days (he got the measuring cups I have out there mixed up somehow), but now I'm wondering if it could be another symptom? I don't even know for sure which of them are sneezing, because they never seem to when I am watching them, always when I'm in the garage but not close enough to really see into their enclosure, or when my back is turned.

So I guess here is what I need to know:
What illnesses and environmental factors could cause this?
What other symptoms do I need to look for?
If they do need to be culled, is any of the meat still edible, for humans or dogs?
Is it possible for any of my chickens, dogs, ducks, or any of us humans to get any of the possible diseases?

I have made sure to only tend for them after my other rabbits since noticing this, and mostly did so beforehand anyways. The did have contact with some of my other rabbits about a month ago I believe though. None of the others are showing any symptoms or sneezing at all. Are they at risk? Obviously I will watch them carefully, but it would be good to know the chances of exposure. I really hope I do not have to cull my colony, and especially not my whole herd, but I guess I will have to see how things progress. Any info and advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[mystang89]

First thing that comes to my mind would be allergies. Are you doing anything different than you were before? Feeding them anything different from different types of hay, straw, or the like to do you have any other types of animals around? If its allergies I wouldn't be too concerned. I had a rabbit who sneezed everyday all day it seemed but he was a good rabbit and never had any problems out of him.

The second thing I would look for would be if there is any drainage on any of the rabbits noses. If they do I might start to worry about Snuffles and look more seriously into it. Here is a link on it. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=18+1803&aid=2686

Either way I would try to quarantine them until its figured out what it is.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Sneezing can be caused by environmental factors, much like allergies in humans. However, if any of your rabbits have white globs of snot in the corners of their eyes or by their nostrils, it would indicate Pasteurella. You may also see matted front paws, on the inner surface of their "arms" from wiping their noses.

I am currently experiencing an outbreak here, and have culled three adult nursing does and one baby. In the adult rabbits, the evidence was clear when looking at their lungs- they were a darkly mottled pink, some with dark brownish patches. I was surprised since they appeared outwardly healthy and were culled at the first sign of white snot.

Occasional sneezing after drinking or eating hay if it is a bit dusty is to be expected, but if you are hearing sneezing throughout the day I would be very concerned. Even if it is simply allergies, I would cull them because it shows a genetic weakness. You could approach it more gradually, however. If it is Pastuerella, the sooner you cull them the better.

 

[DarayTala]

I haven't seen any discharge on their noses, paws, or anywhere else. I definitely will check again though, and continue to do so. How long would I need to keep checking until I could be relatively sure it is an allergy and not pasteurella? As far as doing anything differently, I have switched them from MannaPro Sho to Pro because my feed store has not carried Sho the past few times I've been in. I did make the transition slowly and carefully, and none of my other rabbits have seemed to have a problem. All of the colony rabbits are from one breeder though, and all my others from two other breeders, so it could be weak genetic lines or bad breeding in my colony crew. If that's the case, I suppose they could be more susceptible to allergies, or could have weaker immune systems and therefor are succumbing to pasteuralla when the others remain unaffected. Would that make sense? I'm still trying to puzzle through exactly how that illness works, whether its dormant in all rabbits, only some, how it is affected by genetics, stress, and so on. So, is there any way I can be sure it is just allergies if I watch for other symptoms, or could it still be pasteurella if they show none? What if I were to cull one of them, would there be a full proof way to tell it is pasteuralla by their organs? I'm really hoping to figure it out for sure one way or another. If it is just allergies I would still remove them from my breeding stock, but there are two that are my partner's rabbits, and I know he would prefer to keep them even as pets if they shouldn't be bred. Also, could the cooling temperature have some effect on this?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Is it possible for any of my chickens, dogs, ducks, or any of us humans to get any of the possible diseases?

Yes. I am not sure about the ducks.

Pasteurella multocida is an aerobic Gram-negative coccobacillus, measuring 1–2 µm in length.6 It is part of the normal upper respiratory flora of domestic and wild animals, such as cats, dogs, cattle, rabbits and wolves.4–6 Cats have the highest rate of colonization (50–90%), followed by dogs (50–66%), swine (51%) and rats (14%).4 In humans, local wound infection with P. multocida following animal bites or scratches is most common,1–4,6 and the respiratory tract is the second most common site of infection.4,6

The above was copied from this page http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 721.x/full which has extensive information if you wish to read further.<br /><br />__________ Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:16 am __________<br /><br />

What if I were to cull one of them, would there be a full proof way to tell it is pasteuralla by their organs?

I don't know about "foolproof"... I have no idea what a rabbit's lungs look like if they have allergies- but I will try to post pics later of the lungs of my infected rabbits. The doe I culled yesterday (after seeing one little glob of snot) had white fluid drain from her nose immediately after I dispatched her.

 

[DarayTala]

Thank you very much. If I cull one and the lungs are clean will that be confirmation that they do not have pasteurella, or is it possible still? So, if they do have pasteurella, does that make the meat inedible or just the lungs? If it is edible, would it need to be cooked, or could it still be given raw to dogs?

 

[garden lady]

Is it possible for any of my chickens, dogs, ducks, or any of us humans to get any of the possible diseases?

The above was copied from this page http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 721.x/full which has extensive information if you wish to read further.

This link and story of the woman I do not understand. Why did they give the dog away? Is it just something with the woman and she got sick and other people will be safe with that dog? :x

 

[DarayTala]

The way I understood it was that since she did not get ill from a scratch or bite as is normal, that it was attributed to her being particularly susceptible because of age an possibly already being in a weakened state. So, its possible then that it would be unlikely or impossible for the new owner of the dog to get sick unless they were scratched, bitten, or also extremely susceptible. But I also found that to be odd, because it seems like it would put any other animals they have or that the dog might come in contact with at risk.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

If I cull one and the lungs are clean will that be confirmation that they do not have pasteurella, or is it possible still?

The baby bunny I culled yesterday had nice pink lungs.

I would wait until you see one of the rabbits sneeze before culling so you at least know it was showing symptoms.

Here are the lungs of one of my infected rabbits:



View of opposite side:

 

[DarayTala]

Well, one has green mucous, and the other two have clear, only one seems not to be showing any right now. So does that mean its pasteurella for sure? I'm guessing I need to cull them ASAP? And what are the chances of the rest of my herd being at risk? Some of them had contact with my colony two weeks, three weeks, or a month ago, depending on which. How long do I need to watch the rest for symptoms?

 

[3mina]

Quarantine for 30 days minimum, care for them last, wash and change your clothes after caring for them. Personally, I'd cull the snotty one and check the lungs, while keeping the rest in quarantine till you know what's going on with them or they show symptoms.

 

[ZRabbits]

Is it possible for any of my chickens, dogs, ducks, or any of us humans to get any of the possible diseases?

The above was copied from this page http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 721.x/full which has extensive information if you wish to read further.

This link and story of the woman I do not understand. Why did they give the dog away? Is it just something with the woman and she got sick and other people will be safe with that dog? :x

A 75-year-old woman was admitted to our hospital with high fever and cough. She had been treated for bronchiectasis and diabetes mellitus at our hospital, and had a past history of pneumonia occurring twice in the previous 4 years. She had also owned a dog during the previous 4 years, but had no history of animal bites or scratches.

Sounds to me it had to do with the woman and her system. Diabetes is a disease, which those who have it, can only try to manage it. No cure yet. Doctors hunt and peck all the time (seen it personally with another disease) to find answers. So the one thing common in the 4 years is the dog. So they (doctors) told her or relatives to get rid of the dog, thinking it could be the culprit.

Karen


Sneezing with "snotty" substance is what I call a "red flag". My rabbits sneeze when hay is too dusty or if they water up their nose drinking from their bowls. At first, was nervous, but all are healthy. So I always look at their paws and noses for "snot". The one with "snot" I'd definitely quarantine to watch what happens.

Karen

 

[mystang89]

I agree with everyone else. Snot is a red flag that means either immediate quarantine or immediate cull for me.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

It *could* be Bordatella, but that can also be a co-infection with Pasteurella...I would quarantine ALL the sneezers until you can rule out illness.

 

[DarayTala]

What is bordetella? Is it treatable, and how can I tell that from pasteurella?

 

[ZRabbits]

http://www.raising-rabbits.com/bordetel ... bbits.html

Gee, another disease that will affect rabbits. Poor rabbits.

Don't know what to say. Or what to do. Rabbits do have allergies, just like every other living mammal. My dog has allergies. So what do you do? Just cull? Doesn't necessarily mean the rabbit is ill or a carrier.

Karen

 

[ladysown]

my policy toward sneezing or any other condition in rabbits (aka kits who break their legs stomping the cage floor, head tilt, nestbox eye, and such like). It shows a problem with THAT particular rabbit. My goal is to breed for healthy strong rabbits.

WHY on earth would I keep a rabbit that has a problem that the other rabbits DO NOT HAVE? Why?

You need to ask yourself that question.

If all the other rabbits in your barn/herd have no signs of any type of problem, why would you keep them?

I used to believe that nestbox eye was solely the problem of dirty nestboxes, I have since come to the belief and understanding that it is simply NOT SO. I can have kits in less than ideal nestboxes that have great lovely eyes, and have kits in other boxes that are stellar...and have horrid eyes. Guess which ones get held back for my breeding program? Wild guess?

I keep clean eyes, clean feet, clean butts, clean bodies, good temperaments.
I don't keep sneezers (doesn't matter the reason). I don't keep kits with bad eyes.

I've conducted experiments with kits.
Doe A has kits with bad eyes all the time, Doe B has kits who eyes are clean all the time. Switch the litters. You know what happens? Doe A's kits STILL have bad eyes, and Doe B's kits STILL have good eyes. ALL that changed was who raised them.

Doe A and her kits got either culled or sold.

The end result is now I have only one doe in my barn who has kits with bad eyes. She is going to be sold, her kits are going to the pet market. I don't need that ick in my barn.

Snot rabbits die, doesn't matter to me the reason. Sneezers move to my isolation/for sale area and are either culled or sold to the pet market. It's not worth it in my opinion to fight with the immune systems on a prey species animal.

The goal of any breeder should be for strong healthy animals that don't need to be fussed with in order to maintain their health.

Consider this... we give them EVERYTHING they need. So they should remain healthy as they don't have to fight for survival. They just need to eat and do their job. (whatever that job may be.. companion, food producer, show, sport, wool etc).

__________ Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:57 am __________

okay... green snot on one, clear snot on two correct?

Green snot in my experience is NOT pasturella but tends to be pneumonia dues to environmental issues. (aka high ammonia content). Pasturella may play a role as it exhibits in a variety of forms, but predominately I would guess that there's pneumonia going on or possibly bordatella.

I would cull rather than treat as pneumonia wrecks havoc on the lungs.

The clear snot ones I would move to an area with lots of good air flow. See if they improve within a week. if they don't, I would cull.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

my policy toward sneezing or any other condition in rabbits (aka kits who break their legs stomping the cage floor, head tilt, nestbox eye, and such like). It shows a problem with THAT particular rabbit. My goal is to breed for healthy strong rabbits.

WHY on earth would I keep a rabbit that has a problem that the other rabbits DO NOT HAVE? Why?

You need to ask yourself that question.

If all the other rabbits in your barn/herd have no signs of any type of problem, why would you keep them?

I used to believe that nestbox eye was solely the problem of dirty nestboxes, I have since come to the belief and understanding that it is simply NOT SO. I can have kits in less than ideal nestboxes that have great lovely eyes, and have kits in other boxes that are stellar...and have horrid eyes. Guess which ones get held back for my breeding program? Wild guess?

I keep clean eyes, clean feet, clean butts, clean bodies, good temperaments.
I don't keep sneezers (doesn't matter the reason). I don't keep kits with bad eyes.

I've conducted experiments with kits.
Doe A has kits with bad eyes all the time, Doe B has kits who eyes are clean all the time. Switch the litters. You know what happens? Doe A's kits STILL have bad eyes, and Doe B's kits STILL have good eyes. ALL that changed was who raised them.

Doe A and her kits got either culled or sold.

The end result is now I have only one doe in my barn who has kits with bad eyes. She is going to be sold, her kits are going to the pet market. I don't need that ick in my barn.

Snot rabbits die, doesn't matter to me the reason. Sneezers move to my isolation/for sale area and are either culled or sold to the pet market. It's not worth it in my opinion to fight with the immune systems on a prey species animal.

The goal of any breeder should be for strong healthy animals that don't need to be fussed with in order to maintain their health.

Consider this... we give them EVERYTHING they need. So they should remain healthy as they don't have to fight for survival. They just need to eat and do their job. (whatever that job may be.. companion, food producer, show, sport, wool etc).

__________ Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:57 am __________

okay... green snot on one, clear snot on two correct?

Green snot in my experience is NOT pasturella but tends to be pneumonia dues to environmental issues. (aka high ammonia content). Pasturella may play a role as it exhibits in a variety of forms, but predominately I would guess that there's pneumonia going on or possibly bordatella.

I would cull rather than treat as pneumonia wrecks havoc on the lungs.

The clear snot ones I would move to an area with lots of good air flow. See if they improve within a week. if they don't, I would cull.

I completely agree with what Ladysown has stated.... :goodpost:

 

[AnnClaire]

AMEN Ladysown ... a lot of diseases and genetic problems associated with certain breeds, etc. all have their widespread impact because of what I would consider improper breeding criteria or less than stringent culling criteria.

Let's face it ... some folks just won't admit that illness can and should be culled for and they sacrificed not only the health of their herd, but the herds of anyone that received breeding stock from that breeder.

I also have a doe that has had 4 litters (3, 5, 3, 1) with 2 kits developing nestbox eye even with a different doe raising the kits. She is a wool breed, and honestly, she has not performed, her conformation is lacking, and now, the low birth numbers ... she will be replaced soon, but she is also the sweetest doe I have. And the herd buck (other does regularly kindle 7-11) is so totally in love with this particular doe! She is also the dominate doe when with the other senior does.

You have to do what you are comfortable with, but keeping the long view in mind, breeding weak immune systems, or less than stellar genetics doesn't harm only your herd, but the herds of every other breeder that get's stock from you.

 

[DarayTala]

I guess for me it differs a little because I am breeding for meat only, not to sell in any form at this point. I also was aware from the start that my family would get attached to our breeding stock, and while I made it clear that any kits were for meat unless I kept them as breeding stock, I did allow them to name our other rabbits and spend time with them. If my colony has something that could be treated and not past to the rest of my herd I would allow my family to keep at least the two they are very attached to but not breed them, where as if they have something that is definitely a danger to the rest of my herd they will be culled for sure. Its the not knowing for sure if my others are in danger that is really making me a bit panicy right now.

I think we are going to try and quarantine for thirty days and see how they look after that. I've made it clear that no one but myself and my partner goes near them, and the two of us are going to take care of them last and then shower and wash our clothes afterwards each day. Hopefully that will be enough to keep it from spreading. Is there anything else you would recommend? What results could we suspect for each of the possible illnesses? I'm also debating culling at least one anyway so I can take a look at their organs and try and find out any more from that. What should I be looking for aside from bad lungs?