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WhatTheFluff

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So I have several litters and some of the colors have me stumped (I have new bucks, and a couple new does this round).

I will attach pics (side and/or top view(s) plus face pic of each) and what I think they may be?


first little doe I am leaning towards and lilac/fawn tri? But the spots on her sides seem darker than the lilac looking spots on her face.



this guy at first I thought was just a regular broken, but he seems to have a couple little chocolate spots in his orange…so would he technically be a choco-orange tri? He has no Chocolate on his face, only orange.
 

WhatTheFluff

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Idk why it posted before I even finished the post 🤦🏼‍♀️

but here is the first kit (possible lilac/fawn tri)
23F55DDC-4E4E-4AE6-A336-4834C4A70D3D.jpeg

here is the second kit (possible Chocolate/orange tri, with minimal chocolate spots).
924CDF24-2BD2-4639-96C5-96FB8CA8DA1B.jpeg

These next two I believe are some sort of torte or poorly marked harlequins? First one maybe a blue/fawn and second a black/orange?2866E7E4-D194-4AC1-9879-20DAC03DB93C.jpeg A08E2D5A-BC15-4366-BCE9-4A7B00CD8244.jpeg


these last three are all from one litter (dam a REW and the sire I believe to be a Sallander.)
I think the first two are some sort of sable point or something like that? The last one has me truly stumped.
2A265989-8DCC-456C-BC6A-9607D245128F.jpeg 244E09D5-EFE4-4D8E-9AB0-404E08B8AC20.jpeg 98725755-CBC7-4D6E-9A1C-2B44DC2F7ED8.jpeg
the last kit is pure white, but isn’t a REW (which the litter did include two REWs), and his eyes aren’t blue, they almost seem a brown color?
 

RabbitsOfTheCreek

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Idk why it posted before I even finished the post 🤦🏼‍♀️

but here is the first kit (possible lilac/fawn tri)
View attachment 29779

here is the second kit (possible Chocolate/orange tri, with minimal chocolate spots).
View attachment 29780

These next two I believe are some sort of torte or poorly marked harlequins? First one maybe a blue/fawn and second a black/orange?View attachment 29781 View attachment 29784


these last three are all from one litter (dam a REW and the sire I believe to be a Sallander.)
I think the first two are some sort of sable point or something like that? The last one has me truly stumped.
View attachment 29782 View attachment 29783 View attachment 29785
the last kit is pure white, but isn’t a REW (which the litter did include two REWs), and his eyes aren’t blue, they almost seem a brown color?
The first two look like tricolor brokens, the second looks like a tort, and the last ones look like frosties. The one that you think is white with brown eyes could have a dark blue eye color
 

Jackrabbit

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Blue fawn tri, choc orange tri, blue fawn harle, black orange harle. X. X. Ermine…. Maybe try taking pix without your hand. Ik it can be hard to do but I encourage you to try! Most buyers I’ve sold rabbits to don’t like those pix plus you can’t see the rabbits face well
 

WhatTheFluff

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Blue fawn tri, choc orange tri, blue fawn harle, black orange harle. X. X. Ermine…. Maybe try taking pix without your hand. Ik it can be hard to do but I encourage you to try! Most buyers I’ve sold rabbits to don’t like those pix plus you can’t see the rabbits face well
Thank you! Do you think those Harle’s would be considered low Rufus?
yes I have my hand there to help them stay still and to help try and keep them posed to show shape. That’s why I also include photos of the faces with the body shots. These young buns are movers lol. Plus my goose that decided to nest nearby and her boyfriend and friends weren’t helping making an awful racket 🥲 we currently have 40 kits 🤠 here’s a picture of most the bucks kits just for fun (not perm cage, was just using as I was sexing and separating).

61080E67-7D84-40CC-86D1-19E614DC36C5.jpeg
 

RabbitsOfTheCreek

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Thank you! Do you think those Harle’s would be considered low Rufus?
yes I have my hand there to help them stay still and to help try and keep them posed to show shape. That’s why I also include photos of the faces with the body shots. These young buns are movers lol. Plus my goose that decided to nest nearby and her boyfriend and friends weren’t helping making an awful racket 🥲 we currently have 40 kits 🤠 here’s a picture of most the bucks kits just for fun (not perm cage, was just using as I was sexing and separating).

View attachment 29792
Wow that's... a lot. I'm glad they're only in there for a little bit, it looks crowded
 

WhatTheFluff

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Wow that's... a lot. I'm glad they're only in there for a little bit, it looks crowded
Lol yes, this is just the cage I use while I’m sexing everyone and taking pics. All the boys go in here while I go through each littler and the girls stay with mom until I get everyone pictured and sexed, then I have multiple large grow out cages that I divide them up into, still keeping bucks and does separated.
I just consider them Regular Harle. Omg are those Rex?????
Thank you!
And yes lol, I mainly raise Rex. I only have one odd doe out that was given to me (she’s a New Zealand/Silver Fox cross) and I breed her to my Rex bucks sometimes too. She’s such a good mom, I like to have her available for fostering and her kits always turn out so sweet and beautifully shaped.
 

WhatTheFluff

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Blue fawn tri, choc orange tri, blue fawn harle, black orange harle. X. X. Ermine…. Maybe try taking pix without your hand. Ik it can be hard to do but I encourage you to try! Most buyers I’ve sold rabbits to don’t like those pix plus you can’t see the rabbits face well
Hello I’m back with a couple updated pictures 😅😂 the “blue” is looking lighter so I thought I’d check back for your insight, if available? The lighting beforehand wasn’t the most ideal so I tried to get them in some good natural light this round.
And then the last one (last two pics), it’s white except some very light shading JUST on the top of the tail area, brown eyes….it’s the last one in the OG post.
 

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Jackrabbit

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Lol I haven’t posted in awhile,,, I’ve had a horrible week:(… Anyways, The Tri might be Lilac Fawn..? Can’t really see it that well. The harle is DEFINITELY BLUE/FAWN. The other maybe some sort of frosty… what are they’re parents?
 

WhatTheFluff

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oh no! I’m sorry to hear about your week, hopefully it’ll turn around here shortly! I’ve had bad luck in my goats area of the homestead 😵‍💫 luckily the rabbits are still on the up and up.
I’ll have to see if I can get the tri again at a better angle in better natural light.
The weird one has a REW dam (which the only info I have is a REW sire…and the dam for her was either red or amber 🫠 I was brand new to rabbits when I bought her) the sire is sallander or ermine??? The breeder said he was sallander, sent pics of parents and said they were REW and the other was “lilac based”. I’ve posted him elsewhere and a bunch of people said ermine? I’ll attach pics of them.
Picture #1 is the dam (rew) and sire (sallander???) that I bred that produced the mystery color kit. Pics 2-5 are pics of the same buck from pic #1, but the pics are from #1 (newest) to pic #5 (oldest pic). Last pic (#6) is the “sallander?” buck’s dam that I was just simply told was “lilac based”.
 

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Jackrabbit

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Thank you!😊. Not sure if it’s the lighting but the sire definitely looks like a lilac otter to me. The kit I’m still unsure of, sorry lol but it’s definitely a broken and not solid. The last one who I believe you said is the sires mom looks like one of mine (HEIDI) who is lilac otter ermine.
 

WhatTheFluff

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Thank you!😊. Not sure if it’s the lighting but the sire definitely looks like a lilac otter to me. The kit I’m still unsure of, sorry lol but it’s definitely a broken and not solid. The last one who I believe you said is the sires mom looks like one of mine (HEIDI) who is lilac otter ermine.
A Lilac otter oh! Well, I mean, he does have any of the tan on him that would be an otter characteristic right? The two Rex does I bred him with this round (the REW and a broke castor) didn’t produce any otters.
The broken castor doe paired with him produced mainly REW kits a solid castor and one or two brokens.
the REW doe produced a magpie, that weird one with the brown eyes that’s mainly white with the shading on the tail I just posted (also the last one posted in OG post), two others that were posted towards the end of the OG post, I believe someone said above they were ermine? And a couple REW.

I have bred that gray rabbit (male) that you are now suspecting is a lilac otter to my New Zealand/Silver Fox doe (Cleo), just for fun. And that produced about a 50/50 of otters or solids. Cleo is this rabbit, attached picture below.
 

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WhatTheFluff

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Thank you!😊. Not sure if it’s the lighting but the sire definitely looks like a lilac otter to me. The kit I’m still unsure of, sorry lol but it’s definitely a broken and not solid. The last one who I believe you said is the sires mom looks like one of mine (HEIDI) who is lilac otter ermine.
Also, here’s another picture of the buck I have that the lady said was Sallander but you suspect is a lilac otter. The flash is on though. I didn’t grab him out as I had an escapee puppy in the other arm 😅😂
 

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Alaska Satin

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First, that sire can't be a sallander because sallander is a self - it would not have that white belly, eye rings, jowl markings or ear lacing. And it isn't an otter since otters have tan or fawn markings, not silvery white markings.
What he looks like to me is a lilac martin, which is basically a lilac otter with the chin gene suppressing expression of the yellow (tan/fawn) - that would be <at_ bb cchd_ dd E_>. There's a possibility that it's lynx, too, which is a lilac aguoti <A_ bb C_ dd E_>.
Blow into the fur and see if he has rings. If rings, lynx; if no rings, probably lilac martin.
The thing that's mystifying me is that he looks shaded in several of the photos, in the way that non-extension colors look shaded, but that could be the lighting. And he seems much too highly-colored to be an ermine. That's what I think his mystery kit is, though.
Bred to a castor and REW, he may not have produced any otters or martins because aguoti is dominant over tan (otter).
He's really beautiful, by the way. :)
 

WhatTheFluff

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First, that sire can't be a sallander because sallander is a self - it would not have that white belly, eye rings, jowl markings or ear lacing. And it isn't an otter since otters have tan or fawn markings, not silvery white markings.
What he looks like to me is a lilac martin, which is basically a lilac otter with the chin gene suppressing expression of the yellow (tan/fawn) - that would be <at_ bb cchd_ dd E_>. There's a possibility that it's lynx, too, which is a lilac aguoti <A_ bb C_ dd E_>.
Blow into the fur and see if he has rings. If rings, lynx; if no rings, probably lilac martin.
The thing that's mystifying me is that he looks shaded in several of the photos, in the way that non-extension colors look shaded, but that could be the lighting. And he seems much too highly-colored to be an ermine. That's what I think his mystery kit is, though.
Bred to a castor and REW, he may not have produced any otters or martins because aguoti is dominant over tan (otter).
He's really beautiful, by the way. :)
Oh thank you! I will have to check him for color rings in the fur this evening after work if I remember. I completely forgot to check last night.
 

WhatTheFluff

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First, that sire can't be a sallander because sallander is a self - it would not have that white belly, eye rings, jowl markings or ear lacing. And it isn't an otter since otters have tan or fawn markings, not silvery white markings.
What he looks like to me is a lilac martin, which is basically a lilac otter with the chin gene suppressing expression of the yellow (tan/fawn) - that would be <at_ bb cchd_ dd E_>. There's a possibility that it's lynx, too, which is a lilac aguoti <A_ bb C_ dd E_>.
Blow into the fur and see if he has rings. If rings, lynx; if no rings, probably lilac martin.
The thing that's mystifying me is that he looks shaded in several of the photos, in the way that non-extension colors look shaded, but that could be the lighting. And he seems much too highly-colored to be an ermine. That's what I think his mystery kit is, though.
Bred to a castor and REW, he may not have produced any otters or martins because aguoti is dominant over tan (otter).
He's really beautiful, by the way. :)
I think I’m going to have to agree on you with him being a Lilac Martin. Thank you again so much! Sorry if the pics are the best, he was being grumpy, probably cause it’s already so hot today and I interrupted his nap because I finally remembered to go check him for rings and get a pic of him outside in natural lighting (granted we are in the shade, but it’s midday and it’s HOT).
 

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WhatTheFluff

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I think I’m going to have to agree on you with him being a Lilac Martin. Thank you again so much! Sorry if the pics are the best, he was being grumpy, probably cause it’s already so hot today and I interrupted his nap because I finally remembered to go check him for rings and get a pic of him outside in natural lighting (granted we are in the shade, but it’s midday and it’s HOT).
And then, because I forgot to ask, can a Martin produce otter kits? I have a mix doe that I’ve paired him with twice and they ALWAYS throw otters. Pics are a couple otter kits they’ve produced, and then last pic is of me holding the mix doe.
 

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Alaska Satin

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A martin is basically an otter with the yellow pigment suppressed by the addition of a chinchilla gene, so yes, a martin can produce otters. In fact it usually will, if bred to a full-color rabbit like your doe, who is apparently <A_ B_ C_ Dd E_> It's that C_ that allows the pairing to produce otters.
I've given her a <Dd> because she's not dilute but one of her kits looks like it's a blue or maybe lilac otter. If it's actually a lilac ottr (hard to tell the color from the angle of the photo) it means she also <Bb>. At the A locus, she is either <Aat> or <Aa>; if she has ever produced selfs she's <Aa>.
 
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WhatTheFluff

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Oh my gosh, you’re my new best friend. I had been trying to figure this stuff out and asking for help on a couple fb groups and have gotten no where! Lol. Thank you so much.
Also the little nuggets they have produced together (in two different litters) are always the same, black, blue, castor/chestnut, red/orange, and a blonde/Lynx color. The blacks and blues are either solids or otters…I’ll have. To find pics of the blonde/Lynx and the red… I am fairly certain these are pics from the first litter they produced. But this second litter produced all the same colors again.
 

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