John and Jill's Kits @ 28 days

[bitterroot]

Oh no, I'm so sorry to hear this. I hope you're able to save the kits.

 

[MKirst]

Thanks. Ya I'm sorry too. Darn it, this works on the nerves.

Now I'm not supposed to feed or even go near my other rabbits as long as I'm still taking care of the babies. My son has that job now for the time being.

He gave John, Jack, Joe and the 3 does physicals, took their temps then mixed up some powder concoction to be given once a day over feed. Hopefully they don't get this what ever it is. But he said it's very well possible.

I sent a note to the 3 people who bought 3 of the babies telling them what is going on. I didn't know what else to do other than give them double what they paid me. So I sent $14.00 to each of the 3 people with a note.

I hope they get better by tomorrow afternoon though.

 

[garden lady]

Thanks. Ya I'm sorry too. Darn it, this works on the nerves.

Now I'm not supposed to feed or even go near my other rabbits as long as I'm still taking care of the babies. My son has that job now for the time being.

He gave John, Jack, Joe and the 3 does physicals, took their temps then mixed up some powder concoction to be given once a day over feed. Hopefully they don't get this what ever it is. But he said it's very well possible.

I sent a note to the 3 people who bought 3 of the babies telling them what is going on. I didn't know what else to do other than give them double what they paid me. So I sent $14.00 to each of the 3 people with a note.

I hope they get better by tomorrow afternoon though.

Did he take any swabs or cultures to see what it is? So sorry!

 

[MKirst]

No, but he took Jill with him.

 

[garden lady]

No, but he took Jill with him.

I am looking at different rabbit diseases to become familiar with future problems for my rabbits. Did she seem to be in any pain like gas? How are the kits doing?

 

[skysthelimit]

I going to go out on a limb and say this, but I have had quite a bit of experience with this and have since learned how to recognize and deal with enteritis.
First, I totally disagree with what the vet is doing and saying.
Second, this is not something that the rabbits caught, it is an immune weakness. You are not going to pass it onto your other rabbits
Last winter, I had a kit get sick, right around 2-3 weeks. You might start to see poopy butt, that is your first warning. Then it's huddled in the corner, not eating. It stays away from the rest of the litter, or the others sometimes pile on it. You start to see more poopy butt, and when it stops eating, you see the mucus on the rear. If you squeeze the kit, massaging it's stomach, more clear jelly mucus comes out.
Very shortly, the nursing doe had the same symptoms. She died a week after the first kit, and another kit died a few days after her. At that time, I did not know what was happening. I lost one more before I figured it out.
Now nursing does can be susceptible to GI stasis and an adult form of enteritis, it's not common, but can happen. You don't need to put down the rest of the litter, that's not necessary in most cases, but I will say this, I've had the reoccurring problem out of the same doe no matter what buck I bred her too, so I culled her, and nearly all of her offspring (the black does that were underweight).

Here's what I did...no vet no drugs...First, I brought the kit inside. It needs to be warm. Cold is the enemy. Next, I spent quite a bit of time massaging the belly and basically doing the guts job, squeezing out mucus. I syringed gas drops, electrolyte powder and probiotic paste. I soaked dandelion leaved and flowers in water, and when the kits would eat nothing else, (older kits) would eat that. And kits that were old enough were let loose to run around, to get that gut moving.

 

[garden lady]

I going to go out on a limb and say this, but I have had quite a bit of experience with this and have since learned how to recognize and deal with enteritis.
First, I totally disagree with what the vet is doing and saying.
Second, this is not something that the rabbits caught, it is an immune weakness. You are not going to pass it onto your other rabbits
Last winter, I had a kit get sick, right around 2-3 weeks. You might start to see poopy butt, that is your first warning. Then it's huddled in the corner, not eating. It stays away from the rest of the litter, or the others sometimes pile on it. You start to see more poopy butt, and when it stops eating, you see the mucus on the rear. If you squeeze the kit, massaging it's stomach, more clear jelly mucus comes out.
Very shortly, the nursing doe had the same symptoms. She died a week after the first kit, and another kit died a few days after her. At that time, I did not know what was happening. I lost one more before I figured it out.
Now nursing does can be susceptible to GI stasis and an adult form of enteritis, it's not common, but can happen. You don't need to put down the rest of the litter, that's not necessary in most cases, but I will say this, I've had the reoccurring problem out of the same doe no matter what buck I bred her too, so I culled her, and nearly all of her offspring (the black does that were underweight).

Here's what I did...no vet no drugs...First, I brought the kit inside. It needs to be warm. Cold is the enemy. Next, I spent quite a bit of time massaging the belly and basically doing the guts job, squeezing out mucus. I syringed gas drops, electrolyte powder and probiotic paste. I soaked dandelion leaved and flowers in water, and when the kits would eat nothing else, (older kits) would eat that. And kits that were old enough were let loose to run around, to get that gut moving.

I am going to remember this. I think it is the immune system too. Do you think anything to do with just something off with a certain food, or just the immune system? I wondered with Jill's kits eating the celery, but Jill should not have got sick from celery unless there was something wrong with the celery. You said, "cold is the enemy" so does this happen in the summer too or more rare?

 

[ZRabbits]

I'm so so sorry to hear you lost Jill and one of her kits.

Karen

 

[MKirst]

A second kit died early this morning. Both kits were the smallest and both rex fur, not that that means anything.

The Propulsid drug is working on the 3rd sick bunny very well, he is a strong drinker (not just sitting taking a sip here and there anymore) and he beginning to eat good. I think this one will make it, he's becoming more and more active since last night. Fingers crossed.

The healthy bunny is doing great.

Thanks for the replies and helping me threw this.

 

[skysthelimit]

I am going to remember this. I think it is the immune system too. Do you think anything to do with just something off with a certain food, or just the immune system? I wondered with Jill's kits eating the celery, but Jill should not have got sick from celery unless there was something wrong with the celery. You said, "cold is the enemy" so does this happen in the summer too or more rare?

If the kits get chilled, no matter the season, it can be a trigger.
The last time it happened in July with some new kits I bought,only one got sick of three siblings, but this group is also smaller than they should be, about 4lbs at 5 mos, they are not going to make sr weight. They are also directly related to the dam and kits that died in the prementioned story. I'm seeing that connection.
Yes rabbits are very sensitive to begin with, losing one kit to a food change, losing a litter to a food change, happens, losing a nursing mother happens, the combination makes me think weak immune system all around.

If the kits eats and drinks, usually it survives.

 

[owlsfriend]

I'm thinking the "healthy" kit should be a keeper....

 

[skysthelimit]

I'm thinking the "healthy" kit should be a keeper....

If there is a kit that did not get sick, yes.

But a kit that recovers is another matter altogether. Unless it is essential to your breeding program, I would not breed it, or if I did, I would cull that line very hard as problems arise.

 

[garden lady]

I am going to remember this. I think it is the immune system too. Do you think anything to do with just something off with a certain food, or just the immune system? I wondered with Jill's kits eating the celery, but Jill should not have got sick from celery unless there was something wrong with the celery. You said, "cold is the enemy" so does this happen in the summer too or more rare?

If the kits get chilled, no matter the season, it can be a trigger.
The last time it happened in July with some new kits I bought,only one got sick of three siblings, but this group is also smaller than they should be, about 4lbs at 5 mos, they are not going to make sr weight. They are also directly related to the dam and kits that died in the prementioned story. I'm seeing that connection.
Yes rabbits are very sensitive to begin with, losing one kit to a food change, losing a litter to a food change, happens, losing a nursing mother happens, the combination makes me think weak immune system all around.

If the kits eats and drinks, usually it survives.

I am sure trying to understand it. I read back and they were eating hay. I am not sure if they were taken away from mother and in the house part of the day. You would think the mother did not get chilled. The poop smelled bad. They ate celery, but not sure if the mother did or all the kits. They were drinking more water and less nursing, so I could see stress if being weaned, but not the mother. I can see a weak immune system and they caught ____?

 

[skysthelimit]

They don't have to catch anything, enteritis is a sickness all of itself. Chilled can set it off, but they do not have to be. It's fairly common, but very possible to breed out of the lines. It effects kits just being weaned, up to about 12 weeks old. It affects nursing does that have weak immune systems from the start. Sometimes the best care is taken, and still it happens. Sometimes nothing seems to trigger it. Stress triggers what is already there. Don't over think it, it is what it is. I culled two does and several kits and I haven't had a problem since.

 

[MKirst]

I think too it is what skysthelimit is saying with the babies addition to something metabolic with Jill according to the vet. He did a tests on Jill and it showed the calcium carbonate level was 87.7% with around 50% being normal among other things leading to weak immune and metabolism system basically. He said no matter who would have owned her she would have died after giving birth. It's just by chance she lived longer than he would have expected with the tests he did. He said she never should have lived this long to begin with.

I dunno, but the 4th (healthy) bunny has been truckin threw it all with no sign of illness what so ever. The 3rd bunny is doing much much better tonight, although he isn't drinking much if anything that I see.

I give him butt baths twice a day to keep him clean down there and he is eating hay, pellets, oats what ever he wants I let him eat. Tonight after the butt bath I was kinda rough housing with him a little and he seemed to like it - afterwards he was all washing himself and acting more like a healthy bunny would. I just wish he would drink.

The 4th (healthy) bunny I removed from the 3rd (sick) bunnies cage this morning to outside in his own hutch next to Joe. He's more happy and not confined to a sick area in my living room. I felt bad for him because before they were sick I kept the cage door open so they can go in and out as they please because they used the litter box, when the 3 got sick I kept the door closed and the 4th bunny always wanted out to sit with us on the sofa.

John misses Jill I think - he looked depressed today.

 

[ZRabbits]

Thrilled to hear the 3rd bunny is doing better.

Just so sad to hear about Jill. Poor John, missing his Jill.

Karen

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Here are my thoughts....

Some adult rabbits have weaker immune systems and are more prone to this. Kits can be prone to this due to immature digestive systems. The best treatment is to do the following:

1) remove all pellets and offer only hay, dry oats, water (with electrolytes if you have it),

2) give some kind of probiotic twice a day (Probios or Benebac paste), and

3) give either infant gas drops or GasX strips to help with bloat, along with tummy massage.

If they recover, good, but I won't use them for breeding. I don't take my rabbits to the vet, it costs too much and honestly, if it is serious enough that they require vet treatment, then I usually just put them down, since I want healthy rabbits in my breeding program, not rabbits that need special treatment. I hope that does not sound heartless, because I do care for my rabbits very much.

 

[MKirst]

Thanks for the replies.

I probably should cull the #3 bunny, but it's hard to make that decision when I've seen him fight to even feed himself. But he did. Last night he started to drink and now he's drinking often. His pooh isn't yet normal but it is in a form of a large soft pea. I dunno, my boyfriend said cull everything that we wouldn't want to eat, and knowing what happened to this 3# kit we would never eat him - that's for sure.

Either way, I'm keeping these 2 bunnies for a long while. I'd like to see how they turn out, granted bunny #3 survives this. I hope he does. So they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

Splash (Broken Tort) bred to Jack (Opal) is due on the 7th ... hopefully I will have better luck at a future breeding doe or buck from them.

It's nice to discuss and share things with people who know rabbits, you guys are great, Thanks.

 

[AnnClaire]

MKirst - #3 would probably make a GREAT pet house rabbit for some lucky girl or boy