Inspections

[DonnerSurvivor]

Oh Dear... we have gone over the Six Bells issue so Many times !!!!!

There was so much More than what the Media reported ! Such as... There were a couple cages that the Youth , who boarded rabbits there were due to clean that weekend. The rest of her cages were in good shape. LOOK at the rabbits that the seizure people posted... A rabbit that LIVED in those cages would Not look as bright and healthy as those did. Can we PROVE that some of the pictures were Staged... i can Not personally. BUT... there have been Other seizures where it IS known that photos are Staged. ( including one where they Actually had the Chalkboard for Take 1...or Take 45...)

The furry fan in one of the photos was Not in use... Could it have been Less furry... most likely. It was Not in use Because it was in the 90s when the raid took place... a Swamp cooler was being used to cool the barn. (did they photo That ? not that i remember) Debe was Verbally chastised for the barn getting Warm.... when the so called 'rescuers' had kept the doors wide open in that heat while they did what ever it was they did in there...They were there for about the Entire day. Then the rabbits were loaded into dog crates...including newborn kits...taken to a fairgrounds where they sat in the heat for several days before the 'rescuers' realized that they needed cooling...duh !

There is so MUCH more information than h$u$ or the re$cue$ will ever give out...Their stance is ALL breeders are equally EVIL !!!

What is AMAZING !!! is that the animals in such Terrible shape and condition...Were, within a couple days...All better and ready for 'adoption'. FANCY THAT !!!!

What if she had been found innocent and her livestock had already been adopted out? That would of been a rocking lawsuit im sure. I do not put it past HSUS to fake or misrepresent photos.

 

[Random Rabbit]

What if she had been found innocent and her livestock had already been adopted out? That would of been a rocking lawsuit im sure. I do not put it past HSUS to fake or misrepresent photos.

It does happen...far more often than one would think...

http://justice4pnw.weebly.com/the-olalla-story.html

 

[jollysrabbits]

that's the problem with pictures, they are not always worth a thousand words. I fear I opened my mouth too quickly, read a few more articles and there was something fishy going on with that. Sounds like she got railroaded.

 

[Miss M]

Yes, I'm afraid she was railroaded. If you look at the rabbits without paying attention to their surroundings, there's no way they could have been so healthy and had such clean coats in those cages. There's no way I believe those rabbits were in those cages before the rescue people got there.

Plus, there's the testimony of her neighbors and friends, which contradicts the pictures and further demonstrates the incredibly horrible handling of the situation by the authorities. If I recall correctly, one of them actually shut off the automatic watering system shortly after they arrived. Just all kinds of stuff.

 

[AnnClaire]

Jolly, I was emailing her through the hearing when the judge awarded the rabbits to the HSUS ... there was a lot that wasn't reported in the press or on the HSUS site ... of course, it was the things that showed the allegations were not as egregious as what was reported.

I am not defending nor condemning Debe Bell for the condition of some of the cages, etc. She had valid reasons IMHO for some of the condition photos, and claimed those were empty before the seizure, or belonged to the 4H kids who had missed the previously scheduled cleanup day and were scheduled in for that weekend. The proof in the pudding is the condition of the rabbits ... did you SEE the photo of the ANGORA? That was a CLEAN rabbit, yet they claimed he came from one of those nasty cages. NO FREAKIN' WAY! I raise REW angoras ... and believe me, the smallest bit of poop or hay in the cage is IN THE COAT!!!!

All I can say is that what Debe reported, her friends reported on the conditions before the seizure and how the seized rabbits were being housed, and the swiftness of the spay/neuter surgeries by the vet the Sheriff's used as the "consulting vet" during the seizure (yes, the vet that was also a consultant for HSUS and HRS in that area!), they DID NOT go to her property with the intention of inspecting, but to seize!

Folks need to do the research for themselves on cases like this, form their own opinions, and be ready for the same actions to be taken against them! While doing the research, look very carefully at the CONDITION of the animal being displayed as the example of the mistreatment ... that will tell you a lot about the conditions!

In another forum and in some threads here, discussions about poop and how the buns build poop piles and the reasons behind that have happened. In my experience, a doe WANTS a poop pancake in her cage when she has kits as that is part of their necessary development of good gut bacteria/flora ... but according to some, that is evidence of bad husbandry and grounds for seizure. HUMPF!!! I don't condone stinky, smelly, dirty conditions, but with animals, some mark their territory in certain ways, and if you continually remove that marking, you are adding unnecessary stress to that animal. I am still impressed that a doe can build a poop pancake on standard floor wire with a 3' drop to the ground below ... that takes some real planning and work on her part!!! LOL

 

[Miss M]

I am still impressed that a doe can build a poop pancake on standard floor wire with a 3' drop to the ground below ... that takes some real planning and work on her part!!! LOL

I know! I have yet to figure out how they do it. :lol:

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

I am still impressed that a doe can build a poop pancake on standard floor wire with a 3' drop to the ground below ... that takes some real planning and work on her part!!! LOL

I know! I have yet to figure out how they do it. :lol:

It's that Cecatrope thing-- ever notice how much stickier they are?
And yes, baby rabbits DO EAT mom's poops! As do baby horses, and baby cows-- just about anything that uses bacteria for digestion, one will find babies 'tasting' mom's droppings!


Yes, In Debe Bells case-- the water supply to the swamp cooler was shut off, as well--The temps, in the 90's, were taken at the end of a long day, where the barn doors had been left open-- even then, the barn temp was 84 degrees. A litter was wrapped in something, thrown in a carrier box, and Mom thrown in on top-- the litter expired-- gee- stress out Momma rabbit, WE know Momma will stomp her kits rather than let a predator kill them! there was apicture of a matted angora-- taken in (dropped off) to be dispatched and used for animal food at the zoo-- becasue it was alive, and in her barn- she was charged with neglect--Now, if one does not have the time to dispatch right away, does one take the matted rabbit and house it, with food and water, or just let in languish until the time for dispatch? And get this-- the necropsy on the frozen rabbits (food for zoo) "They were alive when the necks were broken" DUH!!!

No, she was railroaded- big time--because she would not sell a rabbit to someone-- and the person who made the complaint--waited a year-- until AFTER the "reward" for information leading to a conviction went into effect!!! This was a carefully planned event-- and she was meant to be 'made an example of' THE ZONING wasn't even checked!! Her property is Zoned AG, NOT Residential! They came back, and claimed neglect on an 8 year old rooster that was missing a toenail!!! Now, how many roosters live to be 8 years old?


I LIKE Connecticut's new law-- ANY person or organization filming/taking photos of such 'neglect' MUST turn in the UNEDITED footage within 24 hours--or face their own penalties--

Now, Perhaps I will clean out my rabbit shed today-- the sun is actually out- that will give me a chance to see if I can re-arrange things to make more efficient use of space...

 

[DonnerSurvivor]

This thread makes me very glad I quit raising goats for off the farm sale. My only question about the Debe Bell case is why did she not appeal? If she had been found innocent she could have a decent lawsuit against these scumbags and hopefully even the person who turned her in.

 

[trinityoaks]

My only question about the Debe Bell case is why did she not appeal?

#1. Horrendously expensive, and her means of funding such an endeavor had already been wiped out
#2. ALL of her rabbits were neutered or euthanized BEFORE the case ever went to trial. Even if she had won on appeal, all of her stock was gone, and years of breeding work obliterated.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I just have one thing to add...if someone DOES show up at your door with a warrant...that does NOT mean they get access to your whole property unless it says so SPECIFICALLY IN THE WARRANT. When they say "we have a warrant to search your property," before you let them in INSIST on reading it first. If the warrant is only for, say, your garage...they do NOT get let into the house. If it is for a barn or shed, likewise they get to search NOWHERE ELSE.

The warrant should also state what they are looking for...if they are there to see if your animals have fresh water, they don't get to open containers and poke around in your stuff.

As my dad always said, "If they have a warrant to search for a shotgun, they cannot go looking for it in a jewelry box." They can only look where it is reasonable to expect that item to be. Anything else is "fishing" and it is illegal!!!

 

[AnnClaire]

:yeahthat: Kyle, it also depends on the honesty of the officer(s) which in some instances, I have found to be quite lacking

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Oh-- this came out during some of the Debe Bell hearings and law look-ups--

YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TAKE YOUR OWN PICTURES AND VIDEO AS THEY GO ABOUT "THEIR" BUSINESS!!!

I am seriously considering a game cam placed someplace hidden for the interior of my shed, some type of video surveilliance for my lot--
I dispatched rabbits today, and quite frankly, to have enough light to see by, I need to do it when the sun was bright-- I got enough light through the partially open door, while still being unseen by any passers-by.. Still, if some nosey-losey had seen me dispatch-- for sure AC would have been called. Thankfully, only one screamer out of 4--and all the immediate neighbors were at work(*whew*)

 

[Flemishstar]

I find this thread interesting, I had this happen to me years ago....one of my crazy neighbors who thankfully no longer live there called animal control or something. We had about 80 rabbits at that time, and thankfully they came they day after clean up, sometimes people ont understand a pile of heap or manure that you have there resting until you can spread it etc, I thaought it was cause we had a couple screamers too>>>...The person came...walked about in eyes distance of my old rabbitry...noticed how spotless it was ...laughed and left...PHEW thank god and that was the end of that

 

[Miss M]

Wow, Flemishstar, good break they came the day after clean up!

I have a game camera, not hidden, pointed at the front of the rabbitry. There's no real place to hide the thing, so there it is.

 

[Flemishstar]

Yeah And after a 30 rabbit cull!!, I mean Its usually up to par but ya know how it gets sometimes when its hot out days on end and you have other stuff to tend too and vegitables to pick etc, and when you have that many to the untrained eye it could seems overwhelming, but people that visit cant believe how good theyre kept, I'm harder on myself I guess lol....I was like "ill be more than happy to show you my premisis...ahemm.... follow me, but now that Im older etc, I dont think Id let em in regardless just for the point, theyve been there once thats enough!!

 

[Miss M]

Absolutely!

It's a good thing nobody stopped by while we were preparing to move last year. We were hardly at my uncle's house, and there was no time to clean it except now and then!