Inspections

[DonnerSurvivor]

Another thread got me thinking about this and I didnt want to side rail that thread but wanted to talk about this as ive heard of atleast a few people on this site being inspected by various organizations. Why would anyone allow a organization like HSUS or ASPCA etc to do a inspection on their farm/rabbit barn? Personally if someone from one of these organizations shows up at my front step and says they want to "inspect my facilities" I would politely tell them to leave if they didnt immediately comply the real police would be called and charges would be pressed. Curious to hear other peoples thoughts/opinions on this important subject.

 

[Prisma]

Some times employ bully techniques...if you don't let us see, we're gonna take'm all...or they've got 'papers' showing there's problems that they 'must' check on and if you really have nothing to hide you will let them in but its not a court order so really they have no grounds to stand on unless they're let in. If they come with a warrant, there's not much one can do as far as I know

 

[Lizardslaps]

I dont see how they could get a warrant what can they say to the judge

 

[Secuono]

I would totally tell them to get the heck off my land or the cops will arrest them.
I meet all unknown people with my riffle and my dogs. >=D
I know the law and my rights, any 'organization' is not the cops with a warrant, period. All they are, is crazed people who don't follow the law themselves!

What's more annoying is that some people refuse to buy unless they get a tour, I tell them to bite me and take a hike. I am not a petting zoo nor a museum. If they own a rabbit, all they get is their ~paid~ animal, if they have no rabbits, then they can come up to see the animals they are choosing from. Three seasons out of the year, anyone can see my animals from the road, no one could say they are in any way treated as nothing less than spoiled pets.

 

[DonnerSurvivor]

Basically it comes down to them bullying people into letting them inspect then. That is what I thought and why I made this thread we need to get the word out to anyone with animals to not let these organizations inspect no matter what line of BS they feed you. HSUS is actually wrapped up in a couple of lawsuits were they illegally seized animals. I dont go quite as far as chickensnbunnies and greet people with a rifle but we do have some NO Trespassing BIO SECURE AREA signs up near the barns.

 

[skysthelimit]

Somewhere there is an article, not sure if it is rabbit or dog, about what to do if they show up on your property. The first statement is do not let them in.

 

[Secuono]

We are on the highway in a blind, been here two years and have already had many near dangerous people pounding on our door. We never lived in an area where we had to greet with any view of a weapon, but this place needs it. They need to know we won't take any crap nor take threats lightly. =(


Doesn't letting these people usually end up in more trouble? At least, that's what I've read in blogs, forums and websites. Far worse to let them wander with your permission than refuse them.

 

[DonnerSurvivor]

I pretty much quit selling goats just because the only market was off the farm and I didnt like people coming up from the cities and checking stuff out it was just asking for disaster. I just didnt understand why anyone would allow someone from ASPCA or HSUS to come fishing for violations. I also worry about these groups using "drones" Rc airplanes can easily be equipped with small cameras and I feel its only a matter of time before these lunatics decide they can fish for violations from the air. I believe the landowner has 500' of airspace that cannot be infringed upon except by FAA approved aircraft or ultra light aircraft so I figure if its RC and within shotgun range its coming down.

 

[Miss M]

Absolutely not. Unless invited by me, no one sees my rabbits without a warrant.

I remember hearing about the RC things. :angry:

 

[Random Rabbit]

It has happened , in the past... and will happen in the future....Someone reports Someone else to either animal control or the local police for "neglecting or abusing their animals / livestock / pets.

Animal control and / or the police have a duty to check out those complaints. Most places ..it is the law. There are parts of the country that hsus and aspca have been Handed the authority by the local jurisdiction, to investigate.

Some of the high profile seizures in the past few years came about from : fellow exhibitors ( of whatever species involved).; disgruntled neighbors or family members ( or Ex family) Some of these events have happened months and years After the initial contact was made.

Then there are the people who Loudly proclaim..."If you are not doing something Wrong...You should let anyone / everyone onto Your property to see what You are doing" "What are You Hiding if You don't ??"

It is a very sad state that we have permitted ourselves to be in.

 

[azbowhunter]

AZ has a couple interesting laws on the books that cover livestock well.
Essentially, anyone on my property that i deem is harassing my livestock can be shot.
In AZ, rabbits are considered livestock, just like horses, cattle, etc...
There's also law that anyone entering our property acknowledges that interaction with livestock has inherent dangers, and the property owners cannot be held liable for accidents that may occur.
The drones thing is a little spooky, but not totally surprising.
Glad i am pretty good at bird hunting....

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Unless a judge really understands agricultural practicers, really knows the differences between say, a milk cow and a beef cow, so many will issue a warrant based on another persons' 'supposedly' expoert opinion. I am fortuneate-- one of my local judges grew up here--he knows skinny cows are 'working' dairy cattle! He considers rabbits to be 'livestock' that sometimes enjoy 'pet' status. But then, he also has s shotgun in the trunk of his car....
Do NOT let any9ne on your property without a clean warrant-- if the person is not law enforcement, they bwill have to get one-- which gives you enough time to make phone calls, and get your support system in place--
Do not forget, we do have access to the show rabbit protection society- and yes, they have alink to the dog site with the short article titled something like "What To Do When Animal Control Shows Up..."

Here is a link:

http://www.ckcscsc.com/animal-control.htm

have fun!!!

 

[Dood]

In Ontario Canada we have the OSPCA Act ( http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... 0o36_e.htm ) that gives inpectors the right to inspect "places used for animal exhibit, entertainment, boarding, hire or sale" so if you sell animals from your house or farm you cannot turn them away. If you are a private residence then they need a warrant.

The way around this us to never sell off your propery, but meet up at another location, even the sidewalk in front of your house. As soon as you allow the public on to your property to purchase livestock you must allow an inspector in.

 

[DonnerSurvivor]

In Ontario Canada we have the OSPCA Act ( http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... 0o36_e.htm ) that gives inpectors the right to inspect "places used for animal exhibit, entertainment, boarding, hire or sale" so if you sell animals from your house or farm you cannot turn them away. If you are a private residence then they need a warrant.

The way around this us to never sell off your propery, but meet up at another location, even the sidewalk in front of your house. As soon as you allow the public on to your property to purchase livestock you must allow an inspector in.

If I lived in Ontario and had a beef farm and sold a cow to another farmer and he came over and picked up the cow would I have to open my farm up to a buncha yuppies who wanted to inspect it?

 

[Dood]

No, but if there was a complaint and you were 'open to the public' and did business transactions on your property then you must let them in.

In the post I believe you are referring to, the person making the complaint was the purchaser so it was known the defendant was selling from the home.

 

[AnnClaire]

Check the Debe Bell, Six Bells Farm disaster ... the HSUS/House Rabbit Society showed up with a Sheriff and she was threatened with arrest if she so much as moved from her seat as they completely destroyed her herd of show rabbits.

If they show up over a complaint, Animal Control in the US is required to respond. If the Sheriff shows up, you DO have the right to contact an attorney and have them present while an inspection/seizure is underway.

 

[Frosted Rabbits]

Check the Debe Bell, Six Bells Farm disaster ... the HSUS/House Rabbit Society showed up with a Sheriff and she was threatened with arrest if she so much as moved from her seat as they completely destroyed her herd of show rabbits.

Sadly, the after-effects of THAT fiasco are still underway for Debe. She had to FIGHT to get her job back-- and is now being harrassed at work. She has re-started a breeding program using descendants of her original rabbits, but-- the parts of her program dearest to her are lost--some really good genetics are now extinct.

Sad what a spiteful competitor or angry neighbor can do to a person-- and the judge-- well, the judge wrote her own laws in the courtroom! Despite USDA and COLORADO laws stating rabbits are livestock- the judge insisted the term 'livestock' could not be used-- essentially removing any way to show 'common' or accepted, agricultural practices...

 

[Dood]

I hadnt heard of Debe Bell or her farm and when I googled it some of the pictures were pretty shocking. That is some serious neglect going on whether or not they are considered pets or livestock.

Im not saying they should have seized them, usually the protocol here is to give a warning and come back for a follow up visits to give the owner time to comply but I believe something did need to be done to improve the lives of those rabbits.

 

[jollysrabbits]

I saw some nasty photos as well. if it was that bad she needed them taken away. feces and filth just don't accumulate like that over night. the bowls with poop and pee in them is understandable that is what rabbits do, but the other pictures I saw were downright wrong.

 

[Random Rabbit]

Oh Dear... we have gone over the Six Bells issue so Many times !!!!!

There was so much More than what the Media reported ! Such as... There were a couple cages that the Youth , who boarded rabbits there were due to clean that weekend. The rest of her cages were in good shape. LOOK at the rabbits that the seizure people posted... A rabbit that LIVED in those cages would Not look as bright and healthy as those did. Can we PROVE that some of the pictures were Staged... i can Not personally. BUT... there have been Other seizures where it IS known that photos are Staged. ( including one where they Actually had the Chalkboard for Take 1...or Take 45...)

The furry fan in one of the photos was Not in use... Could it have been Less furry... most likely. It was Not in use Because it was in the 90s when the raid took place... a Swamp cooler was being used to cool the barn. (did they photo That ? not that i remember) Debe was Verbally chastised for the barn getting Warm.... when the so called 'rescuers' had kept the doors wide open in that heat while they did what ever it was they did in there...They were there for about the Entire day. Then the rabbits were loaded into dog crates...including newborn kits...taken to a fairgrounds where they sat in the heat for several days before the 'rescuers' realized that they needed cooling...duh !

There is so MUCH more information than h$u$ or the re$cue$ will ever give out...Their stance is ALL breeders are equally EVIL !!!

What is AMAZING !!! is that the animals in such Terrible shape and condition...Were, within a couple days...All better and ready for 'adoption'. FANCY THAT !!!!