In the UK most people think wire cages are cruel……

[Sinar]

Sorry, this is just a bit of a rant, but I wanted to share in a place where people might understand.

I live in the UK and have wanted to keep meat rabbits for a long time, now I’m coming up to retirement I have plenty of time to take care of rabbits and I’m researching how best to keep them. After extensive research I’ve decided I will keep the rabbits in wire bottomed cages, for all the usual reasons.

Sadly, there is nowhere to buy wire cages in the UK as they are considered barbaric by most of the (ignorant) people here. I’ve bought some 43”x28” dog crates I’m modifying for the rabbits, if I get into them in a big way I will buy wire and make my own.

I don’t need people to agree with my choices and I do not feel the need to justify them either, I believe I will be giving my rabbits a healthy clean environment in which they can thrive.

The point of this post? I just saw an advert for these poor 2 rabbits for sale, the living conditions are disgusting, it breaks my heart to see any animal living in such dismal conditions, but this is OK and I am the bad one.

 

[kusanar314]

One caution, check your laws. I'm in the USA, but something in the back of my mind is saying that wire bottoms may actually be illegal there. Just don't want you doing what's best for your animals and ending up in hot water.

 

[Sinar]

One caution, check your laws. I'm in the USA, but something in the back of my mind is saying that wire bottoms may actually be illegal there. Just don't want you doing what's best for your animals and ending up in hot water.

Thanks, I’ve already checked the laws, wire bottoms are fine if they are of the specified gauge and hole size, I wouldn’t be using them otherwise.

I will also comply with all relevant humane slaughter rules we have here, legally I am fine, some may disagree with the ethics, most of those people are happy eating chicken from an intensive operation, or pigs kept in crates.

 

[Sinar]

Thanks, I’ve already checked the laws, wire bottoms are fine if they are of the specified gauge and hole size, I wouldn’t be using them otherwise.

I will also comply with all relevant humane slaughter rules we have here, legally I am fine, some may disagree with the ethics, most of those people are happy eating chicken from an intensive operation, or pigs kept in crates.

Uk laws for keeping rabbits on wire

 

[Preitler]

Same prejudice here, imho this goes back to campaigns in trhe 80s or so against chickens in wire cages in industrial egg production, pretty graphic campaign and anything wire cage became a synonym for animal cruelty and projected on everything by people with no clue about what they are talking about.
It's stupid, but what can be done...

The other reason is, wire cages for rabbits were never a thing here. It has always been wooden hutches, mostly with solid floors and deep litter. Meat rabbits were a quite common protein source when I was a kid in one of the poorer regions of Austria, my grandparents had rabbits and chickens , at least every second house had one of those two.

The living conditions for the rabbits were awful, tiny hutches in a windowless shed, but that was considered normal, and it worked, rather good protection against parasites and illnesses, and they didn't get old anyway. They were strictly not pets, we kids were somewhat kept away from them.

Even now, another breeder in my street, old guy, had whole litters in just one floor of that hutch you pictured, not cleaned until it was half full. Got reported to authorities, that didn't do much, had to stop breeding for other reasons. New owners of that house kept 2 of the bucks, but in the same hutches, kids lost interest so I took those 2 to a rescue a few months ago.

 

[MsTemeraire]

The other reason is, wire cages for rabbits were never a thing here. It has always been wooden hutches, mostly with solid floors and deep litter. Meat rabbits were a quite common protein source when I was a kid in one of the poorer regions of Austria, my grandparents had rabbits and chickens , at least every second house had one of those two.

Same in the UK. Wire floors just never caught on here, except for commercial rabbit farms which were around in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Looking at the history of wire floors, they seem to have been first manufactured in the USA in the mid-1930s and heavily marketed there. Unfortunately for Europe, we were using our spare metal for making aircraft around that time, needed for WW2. Rabbits were kept in hutches and were an important meat source during that war. After the war, people seemed to go off eating rabbit somewhat, and then Myxomatosis arrived in the early 1950s, around the time that food rationing ended.

The only wire cages available in the UK were those I saw in the late 70s-early 80s on the rabbit meat farms. I don't think there are any commercial rabbit meat producers in the UK now; those still left in the 1990s went under when RHDV1 arrived, which was a government-notifiable disease until the early 2000s.

Angoras are normally kept on wire, but I've not seen the interior of a UK commercial Angora production farm, just show breeders, who keep non-show stock clipped off. While in show coat they may be kept on wire for a short period. While wire floors aren't illegal, licensing for rabbit breeders (breeding as a business, but not for meat) stipulates that wire floors are not acceptable but Angoras may be kept on wire for no more than 4 weeks.

 

[Sinar]

It’s really weird at the moment, you get the full on house bunny people, who believe rabbits need full roam of the house and any type of cage is cruelty, then you get the other extreme of dank hutches at the end of the garden. At least the house bunnies are having a good life, so while it’s not something I would do, I can understand it, I treat my beloved cats like my children, which some people will never understand.

When I was much younger, maybe 40 years ago, I remember going to an agricultural show and there was a display of commercial rabbits, New Zealand’s, kept in wire cages, trying to promote rabbit farming, they had a lot of interest, if that happened now there would be protests I’m sure.

It’s not just meat rabbits that are looked down upon now, showing rabbits is the next thing animal activists want banned. An agricultural show that had rabbit shows for decades received complaints about rabbit welfare and they stopped the rabbit shows there, I think it’s really sad, you don’t have a chance of winning at a show, unless your animals are at peak physical and mental condition, I have no doubt a typical show rabbit has a much better life than 90% of pet rabbits here in the UK.

I have a background of showing cats and cavies, and I hope to show rabbits at some point in the future, but I worry there will be a time when it will all be banned, due to the interference of do gooder hypocrites, quick to condemn others while being party to out of sight cruelty on factory farms.

There is such a deep cultural heritage of show animals in this country (and many others I’m sure), while rich people showed their horses and dogs, working class people took just as much pride in thier pigeons, and mice and rabbits, that so many decades of meticulous breeding and dedication might be swept away by ignorant people, who don’t take the time to consider the history and realties of the hobbies, and just have a knee jerk reaction when seeing an animal at the show in a small cage, choosing to ignore that it is only a temporary cage, and that all exhibits are in exceptional condition, is so disheartening.

Hopefully I am just being pessimistic and things are not as bad, maybe I am lucky to be older as I’ll probably never have to experience a society in which all animal ownership is considered unacceptable.

 

[kusanar314]

Same in the UK. Wire floors just never caught on here, except for commercial rabbit farms which were around in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Looking at the history of wire floors, they seem to have been first manufactured in the USA in the mid-1930s and heavily marketed there. Unfortunately for Europe, we were using our spare metal for making aircraft around that time, needed for WW2. Rabbits were kept in hutches and were an important meat source during that war. After the war, people seemed to go off eating rabbit somewhat, and then Myxomatosis arrived in the early 1950s, around the time that food rationing ended.

The only wire cages available in the UK were those I saw in the late 70s-early 80s on the rabbit meat farms. I don't think there are any commercial rabbit meat producers in the UK now; those still left in the 1990s went under when RHDV1 arrived, which was a government-notifiable disease until the early 2000s.

Angoras are normally kept on wire, but I've not seen the interior of a UK commercial Angora production farm, just show breeders, who keep non-show stock clipped off. While in show coat they may be kept on wire for a short period. While wire floors aren't illegal, licensing for rabbit breeders (breeding as a business, but not for meat) stipulates that wire floors are not acceptable but Angoras may be kept on wire for no more than 4 weeks.
View attachment 44534

This may be what I had heard / seen. I never looked into it because... well... I'm on the other side of the world practically so it doesn't directly effect me.

 

[MsTemeraire]

It’s not just meat rabbits that are looked down upon now, showing rabbits is the next thing animal activists want banned. An agricultural show that had rabbit shows for decades received complaints about rabbit welfare and they stopped the rabbit shows there, I think it’s really sad, you don’t have a chance of winning at a show, unless your animals are at peak physical and mental condition, I have no doubt a typical show rabbit has a much better life than 90% of pet rabbits here in the UK.

It's several agricultural shows unfortunately, and the activists also contacted the owners of just about all the village halls where shows are held. Some of them did take heed and cancelled their arrangements with rabbit clubs. It's not looking good; show breeders are low-hanging fruit and easy to target. At this rate we will lose a lot of rare breeds, some of which are native to the UK and not found elsewhere in the world. It's claimed a show is too stressful for rabbits, but show rabbits come from generations of carefully chosen stock and given the propensity rabbits have of developing GI stasis in response to stress, it's not something which is a problem in show rabbits! If it were so, it would be impossible to show them more than once!

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

I've never been able to agree with most pet rabbit people on stuff, it's sad that anything they see that isn't giving a whole room to one rabbit is considered cruel
Hopefully you are about to take care of your rabbits the way you want to without having to get in trouble for it

 

[jaxmarblebuns]

After getting hounded for our families rabbits setup/care when I was 12 (I had no control over setup at this time) I started to agree with some of the point the HRS people made, mostly about living space and diet, it made sense (and after independent research, it still does).

But when I saw a post on reddit saying to bond rabbits by placing them in a small carrier on top a running cloths dryer/washer, with links to the HRS article, I lost all respect for them and there devote followers....... I just...... I've never truly been speechless until reading that comment.

But I'm the bad guy for using wire with, resting mats, and giving them free roam time almost everyday. Oh, and god forbid I pick them up because "they are pray animals and think that your are a predator they will never trust you".

Rabbits in question that are abused and hate me.