I can't stand the suspense!!

[WildWolf]

She seems completely relaxed and normal. She's layed down, stretched out, groomed, jumped, and hoped around normally right in front of me... wouldn't she be at least teeth grinding, or bloody, or skittish, or reluctant to run/jump?
Do you think that because she was bred (even though she didn't give birth- yet) I could still breed her after she's more than a year old?

The thing is- she's a little used to dogs. My fenced in dog area(with two dogs running around like crazy) is about 40 or 50 feet away from her hutch. And she's been barked at by loose dogs before...
If she ate them, would I see blood anywhere?

I'll try feeling for babies again this evening (I'm taking the advise to not visit so much). I'll see if my dad will help me hold her still.
Sigh... I really hope she kindles tonight.

 

[OwnedByTheBuns]

She seems completely relaxed and normal. She's layed down, stretched out, groomed, jumped, and hoped around normally right in front of me... wouldn't she be at least teeth grinding, or bloody, or skittish, or reluctant to run/jump?
Do you think that because she was bred (even though she didn't give birth- yet) I could still breed her after she's more than a year old?

The thing is- she's a little used to dogs. My fenced in dog area(with two dogs running around like crazy) is about 40 or 50 feet away from her hutch. And she's been barked at by loose dogs before...
If she ate them, would I see blood anywhere?

I'll try feeling for babies again this evening (I'm taking the advise to not visit so much). I'll see if my dad will help me hold her still.
Sigh... I really hope she kindles tonight.

Yes, if she was stressed you would most likely notice. What breed is she? If she was bred and didn't take, then if she was a french Lop, no she could not breed again. BUT, she's not a French Lop. If she were to abort you would most likely notice, but some does clean up very very well. When my doe ate one of her kits, there was bloody bedding in the corner.

I would try feeling for babies, but just don't stress her. That could also mess things up. If she really is that annoyed at you when you try, then don't. Or, I wouldn't.

Oh goodness, I hope she kindles! I had a doe do this to me last week. Waited forever, got some babies reserved, and then she didn't kindle. And she takes every time!

 

[AmysMacdog]

I hope so too Wildwolf, sorry your going through this. I know how it is to wait for babies.
Its possible she didn't take. Has she ever had a litter before? Sometimes if it their first litter after they are a year old it harder for them to get pregnant at first. I hope she pops today though, got my fingers crossed she does!!

 

[WildWolf]

This is her first litter, and she is a week less than a year old. She's a Silver Fox... If I were to rebreed her this November (if she isn't pregnant now), can she give birth for the first time when she is a year and 5 months?
Also, does age matter for bucks? My buck is 4 months old now, and hasn't bred. Could he breed for the first time in November?

Well, I had to go check on them, because it's so hot, but she didn't mind. I just won't check this evening... or maybe I'll just briefly check this evening.

I'll only try to feel her tomorrow morning if she still doesn't have kits. And I won't press her into it- I'll try to do it without a helper to keep her still.

Thanks everyone for your support!

__________ Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:50 pm __________

OK- this is messed up: I just googled long pregnancies for rabbits, and a very scientific article said that false pregnanies end with nest building 15 to 18 days after the false pregnancy was induced... she built a nest on DAY 34!! She shouldn't have a false pregnancy!!!! And if the buck was sterile, then she would have a false pregnancy. And she couldn't have absorbed them that late. And she's not in pain. And yes, I have looked everywhere for kits that weren't in the nest- no lost kits found. WTH is wrong???!!

This evening I'll check very closely (but briefly) for blood, or signs that she ate them, or kits outside/inside the nest. Tomorrow morning if she still doesn't have kits then I'll feel her.

 

[Flemishstar]

lol the periles of rabbit breeding lol....it drives me NUTS

 

[WildWolf]

OK, I've decided that I'm not going to check this evening. I'm only checking in the morning...

 

[Desert Rose Rabbits]

I'm on pins and needles over here!!!! She's not even my rabbit and I'm anxious waiting to see if she's going to kindle!

 

[WildWolf]

There were no kits in the nest, no kits outside the nest, no second hidden nest, no blood anywhere, no dead-kit-parts anywhere, no teeth grinding, no skittishness, no anything!!!!!!!! What in the world is going on???????

I tried to palpate her twice. I could only get her to sit still when she was laying on her side- so I could only feel one side. It was hard to tell if there was kicking, because I could feel her heartbeat. Her belly felt squishy, with nothing in it... except the first time I palpated her, it seemed like there was something hard in the bottom of her belly, which was hard to feel since she was laying on her side. The second time I didn't feel it. Could that have been kits- and then the kits moved away from my prodding? Or can you feel organs?
Sadly, I've never palpated before... Although I tried to palpate her on Day 16ish- and I thought I might have felt some little grapes, but I wasn't positive.<br /><br />__________ Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:01 am __________<br /><br />Can someone please tell me how in the world she could make a nest on Day 34, and not have kits by now???

 

[AmysMacdog]

I wish I knew Wildwolf. I'm sorry your going through this, its hard to say whats going on. As long as she is eating and drinking well I wouldn't worry about her.

 

[dangerbunny]

This link has good info on palpation,https://www.arba.net/PDFs/palpation.pdf
it does take practice but I have found if you aren't sure then the doe is likely not pregnant. You do need to squeeze harder then you would think and it helps to feel up some other does (or even a buck if you don't have another doe) to get the feel of organ placement versus babies.

this link has some graphic but helpful pictures http://breeding_info.tripod.com/palpating.html

As for the nest building, she's a rabbit! they do all sorts of things that only make sense to rabbits.

It sucks that she missed though, I transported my doe 10 hours to visit my mom's buck and she didn't take, I just bred her to my buck and I'm fairly sure she is preggo.

Fingers crossed for a successful breeding for your doe next time!

 

[WildWolf]

Thanks!!
OK, so our vet tech neighbor friend came out to check it out. She confirmed my suspicion that Ink Blot no longer looks pregnant (I didn't post my suspicion because I really was unsure). So, that means that Blot was pregnant, built a beautiful nest, then for some reason reabsorbed her kits without showing signs of stress... maybe she wasn't getting enough calcium, so that she reabsorbed them due to nutrition? Except I've been feeding her dandelions and some dill, which is supposed to help with that.

I know she was pregnant. She looked like it, and she built her nest too late for a false pregnancy.
I know she hasn't eaten her kits, or given birth, because there's no sign of blood, kits, or anything like that.

Another weird thing- I pulled out her entire nesting material and searched through it, looking for hidden kits. None found. But, when I put everything back, she checked out the nest!!!!! I mean, she went in there for a minute or so, and came back out. I'll check in the morning to see if she rearranged anything (or kindled...)

I decided I'm not worried about her- she's completely normal. She runs, hops, jumps, flops, rolls, lounges, eats, drinks, and poops normally. I'm going to leave the nest in there, as long as she continues to not soil it, for the next week... yeah, I know, she won't give birth in the next week, but it won't hurt. If she doesn't give birth, then I will rebreed her to my buck in November. I think I'm willing to risk her late age, because I read that really the problem (talking about medium/large breeds) is fat build up that prevents conception, not birth (someone correct me if I'm wrong). And she is not fat at all- she used to be underweight, now she is pretty much normal (she's a little small, but not underweight or overweight)

__________ Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:33 pm __________

Also- I think that after 2 more days or so, I'm going to feed her lavender. Do you think that's a good idea, or a bad idea?

 

[Flemishstar]

I think your doing everything right....why are you waiting until november again,... as Im too lazy to read up a couple posts lol....My FG doe I had that ened up not being bred was always in the nestbox I put in....she never pulled fur nor had a haystach though lol i WAS def a popple stalker.... I sure hope 1 of my 2 bred does kindle the first week of august...it would really make my summer!!! Good luck to you also

 

[Sinnfox]

I keep reading about you having read somewhere that a false pregnant doe builds a nest late...I don't think that is always true. I have a doe...wonderful mom, but when I first tried breeding her she screamed at the bucks, wouldn't lift, generally declared "I'm not ready get me out of here". I gave up at the time...tried a month later, same thing. Month after same thing again.

So I now have a small rabbit that is 9 months old and hates males...well a month goes by and she makes a pretty little nest as if she had been tagged (which I know for a fact she hadn't since she pretty much scared the buck to bits screaming at him so he was as far from her as he could get). Well at least it meant she might be willing?

Nope attacked the buck since she thought she was preg she wasn't gonna let him near her. so back in her pen and I had to wait out her made up pregnancy (two months) suddenly she was done with her phantom kits, so in with a buck and up she lifted. Finally kits out of her and she was a perfect mom.

>.> I was really tolerant with her because she is sweet and I think she is gorgeous...so I could afford to give her more time then normal. Now she is the only one I have had even have a phantom pregnancy so I didn't know it was odd...just frustrating at the time. So maybe your doe is going through one like that...even thinking there are imaginary kits like my little doe did?

 

[Dood]

I had a doe have a 30 day false pregnancy.

Her first litter was only 4 so I bred her back right away and she was covered 3 times.

On day 24 she had a haystache so I pulled her kits and started weaning them. I tried palpitating her but felt nothing and thought maybe it was another small litter.

On day 30 she had plucked belly fur and created a lovely nest.

On day 33 I put her with the buck to see if it would help get things going and she lifted once and was done.

On day 35 I tried palpitating again but nothing and noticed her teats were shrinking!

By day 40 I figured it was a false pregnancy

and on day 66 she had a litter of 11, from the one cover by the buck 33 days ago

 

[WildWolf]

I had read that false pregnancies cause them to build a nest on day 15-18. But, Dood, you're sure it was a false pregnancy and not reabsorbing or something else? (and wow, a litter of 11 from one cover!! That's awesome!)

Maybe she just had an extremely late false pregnancy when she built that beautiful nest...The thing is, my doe looked pregnant too. Her belly bulged, and when I tried to palpate her early, I thought I felt something. Now, my doe definitely has shrunk- and her belly's more squishy, which I guess is due to her belly skin shrinking back to normal. It's as if she had her babies, but I can't find them...

I found a reason she might have reabsorbed the kits: Lately I've been giving her BOSS, as well as her usual grain, to help with her fur condition and weight gain (she was slightly underweight a few weeks before she was bred, but gained weight and better condition by a week after she was bred. She is now perfectly fine). So, normally she doesn't eat all of it, and I just top it off every morning. But today, I decided to replace all of it, and not just top it off, because there were a lot of shells in it. Apparently she just puts the shells back in the feeder once she's broken them open :roll: Well, I found a tiny bit of moldy BOSS at the bottom (I'm kicking myself for not checking it for mold earlier). Could she have eaten some moldy BOSS and reabsorbed her kits because of it?

I'm waiting until November to breed her because I have a winter break when I am not as busy as usual.

And of course, no kits in the nestbox today.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I only breed before 1 year. I have to, or their cervix closes and they can't deliver. That is with French Lops, though. I hope this isn't why your doe isn't kindling. She would most likely be stressed by now, though.

I am thinking that this is similar to the "pelvic bones fusing" myth...I know lots of breeders that breed for the first time over a year old successfully, especially in the giant breeds like Flemish, since they mature more slowly.

 

[WildWolf]

So, the bigger the doe, the slower to mature, the more likely she will conceive/give birth successfully after a year?
I think that maybe the problem is just that after a year, without breeding, they have more fat than if they had bred. And that fat makes it more difficult to conceive, and on extreme cases, difficult to give birth.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

So, the bigger the doe, the slower to mature, the more likely she will conceive/give birth successfully after a year?
I think that maybe the problem is just that after a year, without breeding, they have more fat than if they had bred. And that fat makes it more difficult to conceive, and on extreme cases, difficult to give birth.

Generally, yes. The longer a doe goes without breeding, the more likely she is building up internal fat deposits around her ovaries, which make it harder, if not impossible, for her to conceive.

 

[WildWolf]

Thanks!!<br /><br />__________ Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:33 pm __________<br /><br />Oh NO, I just read that permanently retained kits usual cause infertility... NO!!!! Now I'm really really hoping that Ink Blot did not retain her kits... I hope it was just a false pregnancy. If Dood had a Day 30 nest build with a false pregnancy, I can have a Day 34 nest build with a false pregnancy, right???

 

[OwnedByTheBuns]

I don't know... she also pulled fur so that may be a possiblity.