Frosted Flemish?

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Sagebrush

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Hello everyone. I know it has been a minute since I was last here and made an actual post, life has been busy! However, I have been working with Flemish Giant. I actually breed for meat and fur as I like to make gifts for family with the furs. I started out with a couple Fawn Flemish Giants, and a Sandy. The sandy gave me 1 Black, 2 Fawn, and what I believe to be several Frosty (Ermine). They where solid white with brown/hazel eyes. Out of the Fawn doe I got Fawn, Frosty (again all white but no Albino). I bred the son I kept, a Frosty, back to his mother and got some Fawn, and Frosty. Out of 3 litters from this pairing I have only ever gotten 3 Albino. As I didn't have a lot f space to start with I was only keeping a few adults for breeding and processing everything else. I got in some new rabbits once I had more space I could give them and am now getting really light Silvers/Light Grey. I will attach some pictures of my breeders to see what you all think could be carried. I never received any pedigrees with my originals. Sagewort and Clerise are both 5 months old. Buck-O is my herd buck, one of the original offspring.
 

Attachments

  • Buck-O.JPEG
    Buck-O.JPEG
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  • Sagewort 2.JPEG
    Sagewort 2.JPEG
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  • Clerise.JPEG
    Clerise.JPEG
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  • Big Momma.JPEG
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Sagewort looks like a chinchilla based color, I believe the Flemish Giant breed calls it 'light grey' (I looked up the Flemish colors at Happy Tails Flemish Giants - Recommended Color Breeding.) There are five options on this, the 'C' color gene, in descending order of dominance. Melanin is the pigment base of all the rabbit colors; eumelanin forms the dark colors like black, chocolate, lilac and blue; pheomelanin forms the yellowish fawn/orange/red/cream shades. Most dominant is full-color C, where both dark and yellow tones are produced as needed by the other genes. The fawn & sandy colors fall into this category, as the recessive 'e' extension gene extends the yellow to the end of the hairshaft, and yellow tones are fully produced by the full color 'C' gene.

Chinchilla is next down in dominance, where the dark colors are produced in full force, but the yellow tones are mostly eliminated, so a castor/chestnut agouti becomes a chinchilla. Your stock must have light grey recessives. A full color fawn only needs one full-color 'C' to show the yellow tones, as it is dominant, so you must have chinchilla chd as the other gene for your stock.

Not involved in your colors would be sable chl where yellow is eliminated as well as some of the dark; and pointed white/Californian/Himalayan ch where all color is eliminated except on the cooler points. The most recessive of the five, albino red (or ruby)-eyed-white c is where the pigment factories are shut down and no color is formed.

Ermine is what happens when fawn/sandy yellows meets chinchilla that removes all yellow, leaving the pearl white coat. So, ermine is just a fawn non-extension chinchilla (all rabbits carry two copies of each gene, one inherited from each parent; a dash is used when the second copy is unknown, because the dominant gene only needs one copy to express itself):
  • A- for agouti patterning
  • Your light gray appears to be a black-based color, with black tips, so B- for black
  • c(chd)- for chinchilla in the light grey, Cc(chd) for the fawn that throws light grey would be my guess, although a recessive albino combined with a recessive light grey chinchilla from the other parent would also throw light grey.
  • Fawn is the dilute shade of sandy, with less total pigment spread over the hairshaft, making the color lighter. In the same way, blue is the dilute of black, and lilac the dilute of chocolate. Blue chinchilla is the dilute of light grey. Your fawn carried the recessive dd, so their offspring will all carry at least one recessive copy of d.
  • Fawn & sandy are both recessive extension ee, so all of their offspring will also carry at least one copy of recessive e.
So, there's my guess.
 
Thank you Judymac. That is what I was thinking and trying to work out. I wish I could get better pictures of them all but is rather difficult. They don't like being on the table.

Edited to add the pictures below. Sagewort is a new buck that I got specifically to breed with Clerise. I am hoping to get cleaner greys from them. Would love it to be light greys / silvers.
 

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  • Clerise banding.JPEG
    Clerise banding.JPEG
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  • Clerise face.JPEG
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  • Sagewort 3.JPEG
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  • Sagewort back and banding.JPEG
    Sagewort back and banding.JPEG
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  • Sagewort face.JPEG
    Sagewort face.JPEG
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