Feeding Animals Grain, vs hay, produce, morality?

[michaels4gardens]

Zass, that post was not aimed directly at you, -[the corn digestibility thng]- is a common mis-conseption,-- brought on by "suposed experts" writing a lot of "health" books, and trying to promote products. A lot of people have "intollerances" for foods, or allergic reactions to certain foods, -- but-- these conditions are not a reflection of the general human population, it is a individual problem. - so-- nothing personal was intended.

__________ Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:52 am __________

Fertilizer thing--
I tried raising rice, oats, and red clover in rotation -after I read a book called "The One Straw Revolution" I lived in California at the time and had a much longer growing season then I do now, -- I ran the test for 5 years it works well without any fertilizer addition.
In this system rice, oats, and red clover are sown together in the fall. The red clover comes up first and takes over, then the oats shade it out and it dies back, after the oats are harvested, [leaving all straw and chaf in the field] The field is flooded, and the rice begins to grow, after the rice is "started" the field can be kept damp or flooded [depending on your choice, and on your variety] after the rice is harvested in the fall,[leaving all the residue except the grain] -the red clover takes over again and the cycle is started again. It did work very well and harvest increased each year, [after the second year, that was a little less]-I fed the grain to livestock, [and family] and put the manure back on the field.-[ and sold or ate the livestock]- so in some places and with some crop rotations "fertilizer" is not something that has to be brought in.
The problem with most "modern" farms is the "import / export imbalance- when you remove [sell] products from your farm, instead using them on the farm, you gradually "use up" your "wealth" stored in the soil, and have to start importing "fertilizer" to remedy this imbalance.

 

[Redbird]

Most beef cows here are raised in CAFOs. not the prairie

False. They are FINISHED in CAFO's but they are born on pasture and live on it for at least the first 8 months of their lives. Then they become "stockers" and are sold, the smaller ones usually stay on pasture until they reach a normal frame size (farmers are penalized if their cows won't fit properly on the assembly line at the slaughterhouse) others go to feedlots and are on concentrates for 4-6 months. A few are bought by farmers like me who finish on pasture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_Animal_Feeding_Operation
It's odd that they have a chart showing many calve pairs would fit into each size CAFO if they don't[ show up until 8 months old. Do you think these large scale farmers wouldn't break a few rules? Even if a cow came in at 8 months, most don't butcher until 2 years old. (maybe CAFO cows are killed sooner IDK. My dad kills them at 2, but those are grass-fed) that's more than half it's life on grain. Hats off to you for finishing your cows on pasture, hopefully more farmers do./b]

When a cow is fed high calorie/ low nutrient food its whole life

It would only live to 6 months old. Breeding cows and their calves are NOT fed a high concentrate diet, or even a medium concentrate diet since it would kill them or at least make them very sick and less fertile. Finishing beef on concentrated a is called "finishing" for a reason - it's the end of the line for them

Imo corn has no nutrient value anyway

Your opinion is scientifically incorrect. Corn is very nutrient dense which is why it is such a great livestock feed and has more digestible calories than the other common grains. :roll:

feeding grain to cows is a way to get them bigger and heavier, faster.

Actually it is fed to get a AAA Prime rating and get the most money for their product. If people stopped paying a premium for AAA beef then maybe the pasture finished beef would have a chance but I don't see that happening anytime soon.So it's the comsumers fault? I can only buy from the choices in front of me.

but humans don't eat alfalfa hay, so IMO I'm not going backwards as far as food production.

this doesn't make sense . Instead of growing alfalfa for your bunnies, that field could be growing vegetables for people. Do you see the hypocrisy?Re-read that. I suggested leaving the original alfalfa pasture to graze, as opposed to plowing and planting grains, which someone suggested. I also said the same thing you did in a later post.

But not many Americans eat corn, wheat, and barley

You do know wheat is turned into flour that is turned into bread and pasta - inarguably the MOST consumed foods in North America. Barley is the main ingredient in beer and Americans drank 6.3 BILLION gallons last year and I couldn't find the statistics for the hard liquors that also use barley.

all GMO corn is of the dent variety

Good Grief! Where do you get your information from? Actually, I learned that from Mother Earth News! Apparently they released a GMO sweet corn variety in spring of 2012, pardon me.

50lbs waste per cow per day

True but 85% of that is water. On a dry mater basis cows only produce 7.5 pounds of waste, not bad for a 1000 pound animal on a high fibre diet How much does the garbage at the curb, or flushed down the toilet, weight each week for the average American? 85% urine. Urine still contains nitrogen. What the heck does my poop weight have to do with how much cattle manure a hypothetical plot of pasture can take??????I said if there's not enough grass for x cows to eat, there's not enough grass to absorb x cows waste. As in that's 2 reasons not to have so many cows on that particular spot of land

Hills too steep for crops (what kind of crops?)

But why spend hundreds of hours to grow human edibles here when you can grow weeds that your livestock can browse on ? I NEVER SAID THAT!!! you're putting words in my mouth and its right there to read. I suggested permaculture features. Anytime a person can graze a natural and existing grass, they should IMO. It's free animal food with no labor input.

If you want to grow people food on every possible spot of your lot then go for it but your missing a big part of crop science - fertilizer!

Crop rotation and cover crops can only do so much, for example ; I re- seed my land every 3-5 years with legumes like white clover, trefoil and vetch and even with all my free manure to spread, my pastures are still nitrogen deficient. If these poorer nations don't have livestock manure they will be forced to purchase chemical fertilizers or even use human wastes to feed their plants. Agreed, I had also mentioned controlled grazing - Have you tried "mobstocking"? keeping them huddled closer together with portable electric fence, and moving to fresh pasture daily. They stomp and tromp in a more restricted area, stimulating natural seed banks, they eat the pasture more uniformly, and concentrates manure load also.
Just a suggestion, but what if it helps?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHkIUcOB2vA part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tKvkehHsOE part2

The North American system is messed up but we are rich and can afford to feed our beef grains. We spend more on our dogs than the entire Gross National Product of some nations !

In the original comment the authors Buddhists friends

feel it is immoral, and decadent to eat beef [in China]

- I don't think for a minute we should convert all livestock pastures to crops, especially in 2nd and 3rd world countries where it is a much more symbiotic relationship and one that should be supported and not criticized.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I have no market, rabbits make no profit on their own. After tilling the little scrap of land I have, I'd rather eat the veggies myself

Besides they would not grow at the right rate for what i use them for on forage and green food alone---

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I have found that [for me], My rabbits take an extra week to grow to 5 lbs [9 to 10 weeks] when fed weeds and greens as their diet, however-- when cooked potato, J Artichoke, or sugar beet are added to the diet [in varied abounts depending on consumption] I get as good a growth rate as I do feeding "pellets".
---I have also observed that when cooked potato, used sunflower oil, and out of date powdered milk were mixed together, and fed along with free choice alfalfa hay and corn stalks, the rabbits grew about 10% faster then when fed pellets alone.[about 4 days faster]
[5 lbs of potato, 1 cup sunflower oil, 1 cup old powdered milk]
I did notice some abnormality -there were little hard yellow lumps in the fat tissue near the livers in several of the butchered rabbits, when this last ration was fed.- and an excess of fat stored in the rabbits, and the "fat" was very soft compared to normal fat.
-- so I "assume" the fat from the oil was stored directly into the body, and not "changed" into "normal" rabbit fat.

 

[Zass]

Sweet potatoes have been working as a dual purpose crop for us and the rabbits.
We eat the tubers and they eat the tops. There are a few other garden veggies that work well like that. The buns fertilize the beds, and we all eat It's really a beautiful system when you get everything working together.

I'm going to apologize. I've been told that "everyone just needs to eat more grain instead of meat" by militant vegans before. It ruffled me a bit because I know I'm far from the only one who can't handle most grains.

from
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddisease ... ac/#common

"How common is celiac disease?

More than 2 million people in the United States have the disease, or about 1 in 133 people. ."


I can see the US diet is BAD just by looking at the people in my small city. I hear about digestive and metabolic complaints from most people over 20. So yeah...somethings gotta give. Too many of my friends are over 50 and suffer from diabetes. It's heartbreaking because I see them TRYING to eat healthy, and not understanding why it isn't working.

My families cure was to grow and produce as much of out own food as possible...and it's worked for us. (remember I mentioned I don't buy meat at all)

There needs to be some solution for people who can't do that. I don't really think americans need MORE CARBS but I do agree they need LESS MEAT in general. More fruits veggies would be good....but you know we keep getting mass food poisoning cases from the bacteria from the feed lots contaminating the veggie farms...and even most of the veggies have about 1/3 less nutrition than they used to. It's been followed closely since the 70s.
They have less nutrition because the farming practices strip the soil of nutrients and the fertilizers mainly give the plants what they need to gain SIZE and market weight, just like the grain fed cattle.

I'm pretty sure most of us on here raise some of our own food cause we all know the current system has got it all wrong. And it's at least the start of the "cure". We really need to make sure big industry doesn't pay the US govt to pass legislation making raising our own foods illegal.

On another note, I think the US would rather make Ethanol and alcohol and pet food out of it's extra grain than sell them to hungry people elsewhere.

 

[Dood]

Actually it is fed to get a AAA Prime rating and get the most money for their product. If people stopped paying a premium for AAA beef then maybe the pasture finished beef would have a chance but I don't see that happening anytime soon.So it's the comsumers fault? I can only buy from the choices in front of me.

.THANK YOU!!! Of course it is the consumers fault !!!! Demand for "premium" meat started this whole mess! Did you ever wonder why "A" grade is not the top quality ? It use to be but beef got "better" on grain do they had to add the AA and AAA and AAA Prime to describe it. Have you even tried to order a 1/4 or 1/2 or whole cow from a small farmer who pssture finishes and put your money where your mouth is? Most consumers don't want a mixed box of cow parts they just want the T-bone steaks and sirloin roasts, I don't even think you can buy hocks, tongue or ox tail in most stores buts that's what you might get so people don't buy it.

I am NOT putting words in your mouth.

Humans require animal products. We are not herbivores. We cannot produce from plants everything we need. US rice is also greatly inferior to asian rice. Eat some good asian rice for awhile and you'll find US rice hardly edible. We sent some to japan when they had a food shortage and some preferred to nearly starve instead of eating it. In many countries tons of cheap labor is used to plant and harvest rice by hand. It would be nice to have lots of locally grown, good quality rice instead of dent corn but the logistics just don't work.
RE: meat diet/plant diet...Please consider this video. The guy makes some interesting points. Just food for the brain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nclHgRDR ... QlEJtJ_Hk7

As mentioned most of the land animals are on is unsuitable for crops. It could be too hilly or poor soil. Grassfed beef is popular here. That includes hay in winter without grains. Grain fed beef is given a cheap, easy to grow dent corn or other cheap grains that are not useful to humans in the last few months before butchering. That's what people mean when saying they are finishing off a meat animal. A lot of byproducts from making human foods are put in to large livestock feed. The stuff we can't digest or tastes bad. Most good quality, human edible parts of foods are not fed to livestock.

I agree that natural diets are best, and also agree not every farmer can feed naturally. While some farmers might say it's not feasible to feed x many cows naturally on this land, I would argue it's not feasible to put that many cows on that land. That farmer is pushing the lands ability to extremes and has to supplement feed. If there's not enough forage for x amount of cows to eat, then there's probably not enough grasses and weeds to absorb all that poo either. (50lbs waste per cow per day)

Hills too steep for crops (what kind of crops?) are probably too steep for cattle also. I suppose it only takes 1 brave cow to hike a bit and the rest would follow. hills and permaculture love each other! Just take the hill, find its valley and dam it up = temporary water for animals, gravity fed water for fields,and deeper soil saturation to protect against drought and expand crop diversity. soil can easily be rebuilt through cover crops and controlled grazing in just a few years
Akane - thank you for the last sentence/clarification. I'm just talking about corn when I get hung up on that stuff. Growing corn on the scale that we do here is just beyond foolish to me, and a waste of farm-able land to boot. I want to be a farmer with a REAL farm someday so it's hard to see so much land dedicated to a (IMO)useless crop/ cow food. makes me feel like Charlie Brown "AAAAARRRG!! LOL

 

[JohnMc]

If one was to look at 6000 years of written history vs say the last century from a dietary perspective we have changed dramatically. Most cultures prior our modern one were more meat centric in % of calories. Historically the value of grains was pretty high from a labor perspective. Flour being considered quite dear in that regard. (Harlots being traded for small lots of grain, eg the Bible.) Mechanization changed all that.

The other thing to keep in mind is, US society eats little offal today. We have been trained to eat only musculature or its ground equivalents. How often do you see pate' in the stores? Or head cheese? Or Tripe? Of that 40-50% of the animal that ends up as feeds today, homesteads in the past might convert more than half of that to other food stuffs. Kidney pie, blood sausage, etc.

 

[Dood]

We said.

People here are spoiled by the bland, tender meat they grew up with. Our customers complain that our pasture raise meat is "gamey" and tough, well duh ...

Many are unwilling to change their cooking habits to turn our ultra lean meat tender or learn to accept the flavour. Some cannot even stomach our stronger tasting free range eggs.

If people asked their grocer for grade A (or even B) meat then THAT is what they would carry and eventually the farmers would stop wasting grain on beef that is no longer in demand. The cost of corn would decrease and the corn producers would cut back on procuction and/or switch to other crops

 

[Zass]

If one was to look at 6000 years of written history vs say the last century from a dietary perspective we have changed dramatically. Most cultures prior our modern one were more meat centric in % of calories. Historically the value of grains was pretty high from a labor perspective. Flour being considered quite dear in that regard. (Harlots being traded for small lots of grain, eg the Bible.) Mechanization changed all that.

The other thing to keep in mind is, US society eats little offal today. We have been trained to eat only musculature or its ground equivalents. How often do you see pate' in the stores? Or head cheese? Or Tripe? Of that 40-50% of the animal that ends up as feeds today, homesteads in the past might convert more than half of that to other food stuffs. Kidney pie, blood sausage, etc.

These are really good points. When I was younger I would have never even considered eating hearts, livers, or kidneys. But since we began raising our own foods, those parts are looking better and better to me.

Those parts are more nutrient dense, right? Nutrient dense foods make people feel full for longer periods of time. I think that is a huge key to the obesity "epidemic" in the US. I guess I didn't mean so say we need "less meat", so much as "less fatty meats". (hotdogs, fatty hamburger and bacon coming to mind)

A lot people seem to consider organs and offal unhealthy to eat though.
I looked at the reasons. Liver for example was said to be high in cholesterol and have a store of the toxins fed to the animals through medication and antibiotics.

Somehow I doubt my rabbit's livers have those same problems.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I personly believe, US consumption of sugar, is a major factor in most degenerative disease, as the huge increase in degenerative disease follows the graph of White sugar consumption in the US. I am not a fan of white flour, high fructose corn syrup, and artificial sweetners either. -and MSG makes me deathly ill, - There is a "theory" that most of the digestive disorders now affecting so many americans, is caused by the candida damage to our system, -- and candida eats sugar. But what ever the relationship is-- Countries where white sugar is not available or not used much, have a many times lower degenerative disease rate then we do.

 

[Zass]

I personly believe, US consumption of sugar, is a major factor in most degenerative disease, as the huge increase in degenerative disease follows the graph of White sugar consumption in the US. I am not a fan of white flour, high fructose corn syrup, and artificial sweetners either. -and MSG makes me deathly ill, - There is a "theory" that most of the digestive disorders now affecting so many americans, is caused by the candida damage to our system, -- and candida eats sugar. But what ever the relationship is-- Countries where white sugar is not available or not used much, have a many times lower degenerative disease rate then we do.

That's a great point too. My problem with gluten wasn't discovered until I removed most of the sugar from my diet (cause what refined sugars do to the body strait up terrifies me) and I started uncontrollably dropping weight. The easily absorbed sugar was compensating for my inability to derive calories from anything else.

Heh, the side effect of pulling commercial meats, sugar and most grain from out diet? My husband has become an avid hunter, and I begin to wonder what rabbit kidneys taste like

 

[DogCatMom]

Sweet potatoes have been working as a dual purpose crop for us and the rabbits.
We eat the tubers and they eat the tops. There are a few other garden veggies that work well like that. The buns fertilize the beds, and we all eat It's really a beautiful system when you get everything working together.

I have a very small (96 sq ft) garden, but it's in raised veggie boxes, so I can grow intensively. Parsley Graybuns' "pellets" are assisting the plants, and he's almost eaten down the overgrowth from last year's neglect of the (esp.) arugula and chicory. Unfortunately, it's not hot enough in my microclimate to grow sweet potatoes, but I'd LOVE to learn the names of more veggies that this is true of.

I'm going to apologize. I've been told that "everyone just needs to eat more grain instead of meat" by militant vegans before. It ruffled me a bit because I know I'm far from the only one who can't handle most grains.

from
http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddisease ... ac/#common

"How common is celiac disease?

More than 2 million people in the United States have the disease, or about 1 in 133 people. ."


I can see the US diet is BAD just by looking at the people in my small city. I hear about digestive and metabolic complaints from most people over 20. So yeah...somethings gotta give. Too many of my friends are over 50 and suffer from diabetes. It's heartbreaking because I see them TRYING to eat healthy, and not understanding why it isn't working.

Agreed. DH is Type 2 diabetes (runs in his family; not that he made much of an effort to stave it off :angry: ) and one of my sisters has been diagnosed w/celiac. I've cooked Thanksgiving/Christmas/other dinners for her, and with care there is no cross-contamination. The cook needs to, essentially, impose a "kosher" mentality on him/herself: "These are the gluten utensils and dishes; these are the non-gluten utensils and dishes. They are all washed before beginning the meal prep; the counters and pots are washed." Then carry on.

As to "less meat," I think it's more that Americans need to eat less-fatty meat. Lean meat, or grass-fed meat, is immensely satisfying, and less of it goes further (see my earlier post about the stew from the grass-fed lamb). In my view, the obesity epidemic is multi-factorial, but a few factors stand out:

--Americans don't walk to work or to errands anymore; we drive or take mechanized transit.

--Americans don't eat enough fruits and/or vegetables on a daily basis (BTW, these are non-subsidized foods, so the prices are expensive for many people esp. when compared to processed foods, which are subsidized)

--corporations have undue sway over the USDA's dietary recommendations. Prof. Marion Nestle's book, What to Eat, has a discussion about how corporate pressure changed the USDA recommendation on sugar when the "My Pyramid" system was released. That pressure still stands (current USDA brochure here; note use of the term "sugars").

OTOH, as community gardens have been developed nationwide, they're oversubscribed immediately, so the "grow it yourself" message is out there!

 

[michaels4gardens]

As to "less meat," I think it's more that Americans need to eat less-fatty meat. Lean meat, or grass-fed meat, is immensely satisfying, and less of it goes further (see my earlier post about the stew from the grass-fed lamb)

. In my view, the obesity epidemic is multi-factorial, but a few factors stand out

:
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Another major factor in obesity is MSG -when fed to young animals, and people, it causes what is called"fat rat syndrome" when animal researchers want to do testing on fat rats, they feed the young rats MSG, so when they grow up they will be obese ,so they can use them in testing, --otherwise it is hard to get rats to over eat to the point that they are obese. The same works in human children, if you feed young humans MSG, most of them will become obese when they grow up.

----------------------
What rabbit kidneys taste like--
No one else here knows weather or not they like rabbit kidneys , or not--
because I eat all of them myself.

 

[JohnMc]

We said.

If people asked their grocer for grade A (or even B) meat then THAT is what they would carry and eventually the farmers would stop wasting grain on beef that is no longer in demand. The cost of corn would decrease and the corn producers would cut back on procuction and/or switch to other crops

Odd you mention that. My mother whenever she served pot roast would browbeat the grocer looking for a really gristled cut the day before because she knew she would be cooking it all day anyway. :roll:

 

[skysthelimit]

Very good points.

I grew up in a family eating liver, heart, gizzards and intestines. In very hushed tones, I say (chitterlings) to various people. Hate the smell, love the taste.

In an ethnic neighborhood, I see kidneys, heart, and tripe all the time. They are expensive! I've bought kidney and fresh tripe for the dogs, but never eaten them, pretty much put off by the smell. Though I like chitterlings enough that I don't let the smell bother me. I wonder what rabbit liver/intestines would taste like?

 

[michaels4gardens]

When I lived in florida, I had some customers who wanted butchered rabbit, I don't remember what "nationality" they were - but-- they wanted all of the rabbit, when I butchered for them I had to skin out the heads and just take the intestinines out, leaving the kidneys, heart, lungs, liver, all "in place"--they asked me if I would wash out the "guts" for them, [I said no] so they settled for the rest, -- but-- if they had been doing the butchering, they would have washed out the stomach, and intestines and ate that too. -now I wish I had asked them about the process, and how they prepared the "guts" for consumption. But-- as mentioned above, "the Smell" was always my down fall, when being served any kind of intestine dishes by my "latin" friends- It tasted good, but the smell was hard on me. -I supose if I had been raised with those foods, it would have been a fond memory.--like scrambled eggs and brains, Rabbit livers, hearts, and kidneys.
There are several things I just never wanted to try, - Balut is one of those foods, I sold plenty to a market in Chinatown, but had no desire to try any.
-------------------------------------------
The taste of grass fed beef is very diferent from "grain finished" beef, and I like both, --but-- I have noticed that a lot of people who "want" grass fed beef, buffalo, etc. still want it to taste like well marbled, grain fed, "northern beef", and be able to cut it with their fork. --when I worked at a resort as the "organic grower" it was always amusing to me to watch, the people say they wanted all natural, grass fed, etc., when it was obvious they really wanted what they were used to.
The best tasting , most tender beef I have ever had was the result of a comedy of errors on my part- I used to raise "drop calves" ,-in one batch was a very sickly Jersey bull calf, and when castration time came for the group, he was left "whole" because I was afraid he would die if any trauma happend to him. The others were sold and he was too substandard to ship, and I needed the space for another group, - so he was put in a make shift pen in a corner of a shed, then-when he out grew that, -he went out in the sow field, with the dry sows, -- eventually he got to be big, and a big nusance, and had chased the cops out of the field, while they were suposedly chasing "bad Guys"- and he was getting agressive, -- so I had the butcher take him when he was making a trip anyway, -- I had him cut "normal" instead of just making ground beef, -- Every piece of meat we got from him was tender, and very nicely marbled, [with yellow Jersey fat], you could cut any steak with a fork. so-- an almost 3 year old Jersey Bull, was the best I have ever eaten.

 

[skysthelimit]

My parents would not eat the fresh eggs or chicken I raised. They described the taste as "wild." I do not believe I have ever eaten any fresh meat other than chicken.

 

[michaels4gardens]

A lot of people think they do not like liver, because they ate some old metalic tasting , green tinged, liver from a grocery store, or "heat and eat" liver at a restaurant, -- I have had several people "be polite" and taste a little liver at my house, when it was served. -almost everyone of them wanted to know how I had made liver taste good, -- I told them the only thing different about liver at my house was that it was fresh.[I never freeze liver, it is all eaten within the first few days- or it becomes animal food.]
I have had people who thought they did not like mutton, taste the fresh "dutch oven" mutton the locals made here, [at some social events], and think it was absolutly wonderful, and ask how they made it taste so good. It was all raised on pasture and maybe some hay, but no one here can aford to "grain" their sheep anymore, -- and it is wonderful.
Same goes for rabbit, if it is brined, for a few hrs to a few days, then cooked like "chicken" it is as tender as chicken, and is wonderful, with that wonderful "rabbit taste" I have yet to have someone not like it, -- or -some ask, why my rabbit is not "stringy" like other peoples rabbits.
A lot of work will have to be done to "educate" people about the other "wonderful foods" and how to prepare them.--
In England,the Goverment almost had to beat people to get them to start eating potatoes, and a lot of people went hungrey instead of eating potatoes, -- but-- now -you would never know it was ever a problem.

 

[JohnMc]

A lot of work will have to be done to "educate" people about the other "wonderful foods" and how to prepare them.--
In England,the Goverment almost had to beat people to get them to start eating potatoes, and a lot of people went hungrey instead of eating potatoes, -- but-- now -you would never know it was ever a problem.

If you read 'Cottage Economy', Cobbett, which I believe is a ebook available on RabbitTalk the author absolutely assails the potato. Gives a rational explaination why and its all wrong of course. However I can understand the prejudice considering the famine that followed. (publish date is 1833. Height of the potato famine was 1843.)

Sadly, most homes do not know how to prepare most organ meats even if fresh.

 

[Zass]

We eat every kind of animal we can raise or hunt, duck, deer, goat, sheep, rabbit, squirrel, fish, bear, dove, home raised chicken, turkey, etc.

For the record, the raccoon didn't taste very good at all! So that's scratched off the list.

There are plenty of Amish here, and we have a strong hunting and farming tradition, but I've noticed a huge difference in mentality just in people living inside of the small town VS people who live outside it.

Still everyone has their own method of making deer taste "less gamey".
I even had one person this year tell me that hanging deer makes it gamey, and another say NOT hanging it makes it gamey! :shock:

I've thought about it long and hard and in truth, I don't even know what "gamey" meat tastes like! :? (maybe that raccoon?) I think the best translation for gamey I can find is "Unfamiliar to the point where we don't like it" so...yeah. Perhaps we can blame parents and school lunches for not feeding much variety these days?
Humans (just like every other critter) need to get used to totally new foods slowly, no not always, but in general they do.
Brains and intestines are probably going to be a forever not-food to me(are they even healthy?), but I'll consider making gravy from hearts and/or kidneys.


Back to topic, did I just hear a reference to potato famine? Cause that seems to bring up one more danger of huge populations relying on one food type. If I remember right, there was plenty of other foods produced in Ireland and exported, but the irish peasants we're not allowed them or couldn't afford them. There was a more widespread famine across Europe in general, caused by the same potato blight. (I didn't know that, hmm...good thing we have wikipedia)

Isn't this exactly like the US turning it's surplus grain into ethanol, alcohol, and pet food instead of selling it cheaply to starving populations today?

 

[dayna]

I recently ate kidneys and hearts for the first time from the rabbits. I enjoyed them! They didn't taste at all like i expected (bad lol ) They were very tasty in a dijon white wine sauce.

I did try the fresh hearts and gizzards from my chickens i just butchered, I have to say that I liked the hearts from the rabbits a lot better. I didn't like the flavor and so fed them to the dogs.

I have yet to try liver of any kind. I'm not sure what to do with it as the texture is nothing like i've ever eaten.

I don't eat brains, i'm scared to death of prions.

I'm quickly coming to a place where i do not have to buy any meat anymore from the grocer. I trade rabbits for beef, I raise my own chickens and sheep. A month ago I made a pledge to the family. We will NEVER AGAIN purchase store bought eggs or chickens. If our chickens are not laying or not growing fast enough, we'll eat some other home grown meat and wait it out. We ended up going almost a month without chicken after we finished up the last of our costco rations but now it's been butchering time for the broilers and we're so glad we waited. So worth it, they tasted A-MA-ZING!