False Pregnancy in Holland Lop

[dragonflygrove]

Hi all! I saw a recent post about false pregnancies and I had some questions regarding my doe. I got her last summer in either june or july and she was supposed to be bred but never had kits. I then had her bred to a friend's buck (one fall off) a month or two later when I went to pick up my buck at 8 weeks old. Still, no kits. Since then I've bred her twice to my buck when he was old enough with multiple fall offs each time. She's made her nest at the normal time, 28ish days in, but still no kits either time. There has also not been any afterbirth, blood, or anything like that in the cage or her tray to indicate that she had kits. I just bred her again on the first of this month after my buck proved himself with another doe giving me 5 kits so I know he can get the job done. Is there anything I can do to haave her actually give me kits? I'm reaching the end of the line with her... I was also told when I got her that she had only had one kindle with the previous owner but they were born on the wire so no live babies to show for her. I do trust the person I got her from but I'm just so confused as to why she wont have babies for me.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Hi all! I saw a recent post about false pregnancies and I had some questions regarding my doe. I got her last summer in either june or july and she was supposed to be bred but never had kits. I then had her bred to a friend's buck (one fall off) a month or two later when I went to pick up my buck at 8 weeks old. Still, no kits. Since then I've bred her twice to my buck when he was old enough with multiple fall offs each time. She's made her nest at the normal time, 28ish days in, but still no kits either time. There has also not been any afterbirth, blood, or anything like that in the cage or her tray to indicate that she had kits. I just bred her again on the first of this month after my buck proved himself with another doe giving me 5 kits so I know he can get the job done. Is there anything I can do to haave her actually give me kits? I'm reaching the end of the line with her... I was also told when I got her that she had only had one kindle with the previous owner but they were born on the wire so no live babies to show for her. I do trust the person I got her from but I'm just so confused as to why she wont have babies for me.

I can think of a few things that might be happening here.

- Holland Lops are dwarf rabbits, meaning that many litters will have "peanuts," or kits with double dwarf alleles that die before or soon after birth. It seems unlikely, but it is possible that so far she's conceived only peanuts, and they all died before birth and were re-absorbed by her body (which still thought it was pregnant).

- She might have been pregnant, then had something happen that caused a spontaneous abortion, and the kits (normal and peanuts) were re-absorbed.

- If she lost a litter before you got her, she might have sustained some internal damage that makes it unlikely she can conceive/kindle again. I don't necessarily mean that she got hurt, but possibly whatever made her have her babies on the wire was something that was wrong with her.

Not every doe will have blood or afterbirth apparent after kindling, but it does sound like your doe is just not gestating babies, at least for the full term. I do have an older doe that has twice nested but not had babies, so it does happen. But usually you'd expect a false pregnancy to be evident by about 2 weeks/18 days.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head to help her kindle successfully, other than the usual care. Keep trying (or not!). I had a buck that produced a beautiful litter, then never again (16 failed tries with eight does!). Never did figure out what happened, except that I had a bad lot of hay (had poisonous lupine in it), and we figured it must have poisoned/damaged him but not killed him outright.

 

[dragonflygrove]

I can think of a few things that might be happening here.

- Holland Lops are dwarf rabbits, meaning that many litters will have "peanuts," or kits with double dwarf alleles that die before or soon after birth. It seems unlikely, but it is possible that so far she's conceived only peanuts, and they all died before birth and were re-absorbed by her body (which still thought it was pregnant).

- She might have been pregnant, then had something happen that caused a spontaneous abortion, and the kits (normal and peanuts) were re-absorbed.

- If she lost a litter before you got her, she might have sustained some internal damage that makes it unlikely she can conceive/kindle again. I don't necessarily mean that she got hurt, but possibly whatever made her have her babies on the wire was something that was wrong with her.

Not every doe will have blood or afterbirth apparent after kindling, but it does sound like your doe is just not gestating babies, at least for the full term. I do have an older doe that has twice nested but not had babies, so it does happen. But usually you'd expect a false pregnancy to be evident by about 2 weeks/18 days.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head to help her kindle successfully, other than the usual care. Keep trying (or not!). I had a buck that produced a beautiful litter, then never again (16 failed tries with eight does!). Never did figure out what happened, except that I had a bad lot of hay (had poisonous lupine in it), and we figured it must have poisoned/damaged him but not killed him outright.

Thank you so much for the insight! I sort of wish she was a meat rabbit breed so I could justify opening her up to see whats going on in there.... maybe I'll take her in to the vet for an ultrasound and xrays one of these days to see if there's anything going on inside of her

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

Thank you so much for the insight! I sort of wish she was a meat rabbit breed so I could justify opening her up to see whats going on in there.... maybe I'll take her in to the vet for an ultrasound and xrays one of these days to see if there's anything going on inside of her

Assuming it's still in the kindling range, I'd wait another couple days so you don't stress her out

 

[dragonflygrove]

Assuming it's still in the kindling range, I'd wait another couple days so you don't stress her out

i rebred her 3/1 so I'll be leaving her alone until maybe day 38 before I really consider a vet visit.

 

[Bunnies4me]

Agree whole heartedly with Alaska Satin.

Couple of things do effect birth, is she struggling with hot weather or overweight? I don't have Hollands myself, but Ive had missed litters in other breeds. Check for anything that may have caused stress or given her a fright over the last few weeks as this can cause them to miss.
Feed blackberry to assist with kindling, a day or two before she's due. There is also another herb that helps with doe health but I can't remember what it is.
Wouldn't hurt to give your buck ACV in his water (1tsp per litre) prior to breeding, it helps with buck health. Also parsley is good for buck health too, there might be more effort required from the buck for her in comparison to his breeding with your other doe.

 

[dragonflygrove]

I don't think she's overweight, but the heat could definitely be a factor. Last summer was brutal. I've heard of heat sterilizing bucks for a few months but havent thought about it in terms of affecting the does. Stress could be a factor, unfortunately I'm in the city and my neighbor treats his yard like a car mechanic lot so lots of places for rats to nest. We also have two big orange trees over my rabbitry that the rats love to run along so the rats could have been a bother to her. Rat repelling tips are also very much welcomed and appreciated. So sick of them We also have dogs that bark at the squirrels but she doesnt seem to even bat an eye when they start up. She came from a home that bred golden retrievers in addition to holland lops so shes pretty used to dogs. But all good factors to consider... I'll definetly give the ACV and herbs a shot and see if that improves my luck. I'd really hate to scrap her from my breeding project but I currently only have 5 holes and even after my expansion I'll have 16, 6 being larger kindling/growout cages so I've really got to be picky... Fingers crossed!!!

 

[Bunnies4me]

Yes, the rats could be bothering her. I use rat bait and traps, but the traps don't seem to work much anymore - I think the rats have outsmarted traps around our place now. We do go through bait like crazy though!
Rats can't crawl upside down, so if you make your set up so that they are all supported or have the cage legs inside from the edges, with a good 150-200mm from the edge of the cage, the rats won't be able to get into the cages to bother her - provided they can't jump down onto your set up from above.

I don't think the dogs would bother her, if she grew up with golden labs then your dogs barking would be familiar sounds to her.
Try giving your doe ACV as well, i think makes the doe more receptive to the buck. I used to do it for a few months before breeding and during pregnancy, then a few months off so that they don't rely on it (but now I am doing it the whole time because of an imbalance in my feed, so until I find a new feed they are relying on it to keep their guts balanced).

Does she seem like she's in any pain when she's building her nest? Or any time during the pregnancy at all?

I suppose you checked she was on heat prior to putting her with your buck? I had one chance to breed a proven doe with a borrowed buck when she wasn't in heat, they had lots of fall offs but still no kits, not a surprise, I couldn't really expect any!

Heat stress is a thing, and can kill buns. I don't breed at all over the summer until our temperatures start to drop & we cool down again - we all get a holiday over the summer, it's just too hard on the rabbits otherwise. Remember, them wearing a fur coat is the equivalent of you wearing a decent jacket, and they can't sweat!

 

[Alaska Satin]

I suppose you checked she was on heat prior to putting her with your buck? I had one chance to breed a proven doe with a borrowed buck when she wasn't in heat, they had lots of fall offs but still no kits, not a surprise, I couldn't really expect any!

As far as scientists know, rabbit do not really come into heat. They are "induced ovulators," and as such are stimulated to ovulate by the attentions or presence of a buck (among other things). That's why switching a buck and doe into each other's cages, or taking the doe to a show where there are all kinds of buck smells, sights and sounds, does such a great job to get them "in the mood." It's also why the chances of conception, and the size of the litter, tend to increase when the doe is re-bred an hour after the first breeding(s).

Female rabbits do have a cycle of sorts, which you can discern by checking the color of their vent. When a rabbit is pale in her privates, she tends to be much less interested in being bred (though this is not always the case). But I can vouch for the fact that rabbits can become pregnant at any point during that cycle; it just takes more finessing to get it done when they are pale and uninterested.

Fall-offs don't guarantee live kits; neither does a pale vent mean you won't get a litter out of a breeding.