Ethics question about tattoos.

[Kyle@theWintertime]

Saw a discussion on tattoos on a FB group and wanted to get people's opinions here.

The hypothetical situation is thus: a person buys a rabbit. The rabbit is not registered. Rabbit comes with a tattoo that has a dash in it, an insta-DQ on some tables.

What would you do?

I don't find it unethical to turn the - into an H or something. Yet apparently some people do. That group isn't always known for being as...polite as this one so I want to ask here, not there.

In that situation, what would you do?

 

[Bad Habit]

I suppose it depends on the rabbit. I would talk to the seller, first, and ask why they included the dash, and if they would be upset if I turned it into an H, as I intended to show it. If I didn't intend to show the rabbit, I wouldn't care either way.

 

[Ivory]

I was under the impression it was bad form to show a rabbi9t bred by someone else anyway - at least it is here.

 

[skysthelimit]

I was under the impression it was bad form to show a rabbi9t bred by someone else anyway - at least it is here.

Hmm? Really? People buy and sell show quality stock all of the time, jrs and srs with legs, with the express purpose of the new owner putting it on the table. I'd be kind of upset if I sold a show quality bun and it was never shown

 

[Bad Habit]

I dunno, people on the Ontario rabbit sales FB group seem to sell rabbits with the intent of them being shown/bred...

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I hadn't heard about a dash being a DQ- I guess I need to study up on the ARBA rules concerning tattoos. :?

But if it IS a DQ, and you are buying from a knowledgeable show breeder, I imagine they do it to indicate the animal is not show quality- somewhat like tattooing the wrong ear purposefully.

If that is the case, I would feel that it was a breach of trust to alter it. Additionally, in order to register the rabbit, you would have to alter the pedigree and that is falsifying information.

I was under the impression it was bad form to show a rabbi9t bred by someone else anyway

That is a new one to me, too. I do feel that it is a "hollow victory", but I did not realize it was frowned upon. There is still a judgement call on the buyer's part, where they have to determine for themselves if the animal is worth buying and showing.

I have a trio of Jersey Woolys, and one doe was "stolen" by my daughter... she now has two legs. We are hoping for another (or two) tomorrow. :clover:

But the true satisfaction will come a few generations down the line when the progeny of those rabbits does well on the table.

 

[luvabunny]

I didn't know about the dash rule either....however I agree with MamaSheepDog.
Under no circumstances would I EVER alter a tattoo without the express written permission of the original breeder.
I seem to remember somewhere that knowingly altering a tattoo can get you banned for life from ARBA.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

ARBA recently changed it's rules on tattoos to exclude dashes and things...there's some angry people out there who tattooed their rabbits and REGISTERED them with dashes in the tattoo, and now those same rabbits suddenly cannot be shown.

I was a little scared about showing Breezy when I first bought her...but her breeder reassured me that not only was she okay with it, she would like to see Breezy shown more and possibly win more! I still ask if I'm buying a show-quality rabbit if the owner is cool with me showing them but so far the unanimous response has been "YES please show him/her!!!" I think they get a certain pride if the rabbit I bought wins something, says a lot of good about their breeding and bloodlines!

 

[Ivory]

I was under the impression it was bad form to show a rabbi9t bred by someone else anyway - at least it is here.

Hmm? Really? People buy and sell show quality stock all of the time, jrs and srs with legs, with the express purpose of the new owner putting it on the table. I'd be kind of upset if I sold a show quality bun and it was never shown

I was told this by at least three different people after I bought rabbits with the intention of showing them. I thought it was odd, but I don't know enough about showing to dispute it.

On the other hand, another friend of mine sold NZR rabbits last year and when we went to the rabbit show in November, the new owner had won BOB and BOS with them.

Maybe it's just a personal thing, I don't know.

 

[Random Rabbit]

I have a lot of difficulty with the thinking that "One does not show Bought animals"..... If i Sell a show quality animal... i REALLY hope to SEE that animal shown !!!!!!! otherwise...WHY am i selling a "show quality" animal ???

whether or not i Personally show a bought animal... that would be My call.... some are Too Valuable to me to expose them to the germies floating around out there.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I have a lot of difficulty with the thinking that "One does not show Bought animals"..... If i Sell a show quality animal... i REALLY hope to SEE that animal shown !!!!!!! otherwise...WHY am i selling a "show quality" animal ???

whether or not i Personally show a bought animal... that would be My call.... some are Too Valuable to me to expose them to the germies floating around out there.

That was kinda how Breezy's owner saw it...she was very happy that I would keep showing the rabbit she bred. Granted I only got her to one show before her breeder's recommended "retire to brood" date, but still. Her breeder was very encouraging that I show her.

 

[skysthelimit]

I can't possibly show all the rabbits I breed, I am happy to get them into show homes or even breeding homes, to get others started showing as well. If someone is selling me a show quality animal and doesn't want it shown, then they better sell it to me at brood quality price.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I can't possibly show all the rabbits I breed, I am happy to get them into show homes or even breeding homes, to get others started showing as well. If someone is selling me a show quality animal and doesn't want it shown, then they better sell it to me at brood quality price.

If they don't want it shown, doodle something weird in the ear instead of a normal tattoo. Otherwise...yeah to be honest, if you pay show-price, show 'em! Hadn't thought about it that way, LOL.

 

[Peach]

I think that people showing the rabbits I've sold is a great thing. It's advertising in that case. It makes me cull that much harder and select rabbits I would be proud to represent my rabbitry when sold. I don't have room for them all, but it would be a shame for some to go to waste.

When in doubt, ask the original breeder

 

[3mina]

If its bad form then we are really awful here because we show "bought" rabbits all the time. I don't show to be competitive necessarily but I do want to know other, more knowledgable, peoples opinion of the stock I want to improve my herd.

Exactly how is it that a new person in rabbits is supposed to get the show bug without showing? Magic?

 

[Random Rabbit]

We sold a buck, a year ago... At that show he got his first leg. The people came back with him this spring and easily got his final two legs.

That tells me...he was a Good buck... And... that the people Know how to keep rabbits in condition.

I was as pleased with their winning... as i am when we do !

 

[Asinaway]

I would honestly just watch carefully on the tattoo when you purchase, if you see a dash then before money exchange ask if they would be okay with you altering the tat, so you wont get a DQ. Most people in MI really don't care, at least I have found most to be relaxed.


My friend once asked if the breeder minded if she showed the buck she bought, I was kind of taken back by the question because honestly if I'm going to spend 60 or more on a show quality MR I better be able to show it. But I always make notice to say who the breeder was, and thank the breeder if I can if the rabbit wins.

I think this problem came from because of the Inappropriate language people are using in the tattoos. You wont get a DQ from it but you could possibly be written up for it, if you are reported to ARBA. I saw one judge get quite upset after saying a horrible name out loud with out thinking with a group of youth exhibitors right next to him. I'm no saint I have a mouth like a sailor but I would not want that spoken out loud in front of my three year old!

 

[Whipple]

I just got a ribbon for a doe that I bought. I am very pleased for a couple reasons. I know I bought a rabbit that others also think is great, and now I know that I have a good chance of producing good stock from her.
Also, as someone stated, its like free advertising. I will gladly tell people where I got my buns, win or lose.

And showing is fun. I still do not have anything old enough to show that I produced, so this is what I get to do.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think it is probably more of a prejudice toward people who only buy animals to show, and don't breed any themselves.

We've all heard stories of people who spend 5 G's on a steer for their kids to show in 4-H, effectively "buying" the win.

I believe that is what is generally frowned upon, not that you should never show an animal you purchased. Like others said, it is free advertising for the breeder.

 

[AnnClaire]

Yeah, if I buy "show potential" at an age that is not fully developed: 8 weeks to a 6/8, then I darned sure am going to show it! It will enhance the breeder's reputation, along with my own

As for the tattoo, I would simply ask the breeder to issue a new pedigree without the dash (changing it to an H or an E, etc.) to comply with the current ARBA SOP ... any breeder that has a problem with that will not make a sale with me

Of course, I don't name my kits, they get a tattoo number and when they are purchased, I will add the name the new owner picks to the pedigree and send that ... so far, all my buyers are really pleased with that and it doesn't take too much on my part