Done with rabbits

[Miss M]

This show rabbits have ruined the world is a load of dung from the lips of PETA. Sorry, line breeding is not the enemy, even good meat breeders will tell you that, ask Grumpy, who rarely brings in stock, I'd call that some heavy line breeding.
Secondly, who wants a meaty butt if it won't reproduce and stay healthy? I don't chose conformation over health, temperament, reproductive abilities, etc. I don't know anyone who does. What go would it d me to have a Rex that only has 3-4 kits, can't raise litters, has a high percentage of kits die?

I did meet a man at a show with some BIG Silver Foxes. I struck up a conversation about them, and he told me very proudly how he selected for small litter size. He did not want does that produced more than 2 - 4 kits per litter, because the fewer the kits, the faster and larger they grew for show. Well, they were beautiful rabbits, and (according to him) he had multiple grand champions, but they were worthless as far as I was concerned.

And no, he did not cull the litters to 2 - 4. He culled does that produced more than 2 - 4.

True, there is nothing wrong with line breeding. Meat breeders use it quite successfully. But if you are buying from a show line, you do have to ask more questions, because it could be that the goals of the breeder are not the same as yours. If you want lots of meat rabbits, and the breeder selects for very small litters, that's something you will want to know up front.

 

[skysthelimit]

I think with everything you have to ask questions. Always be street wise. Just don't assume every show breeds culls for smaller litter and chooses looks over any other factor, and just don't automatically assume a meat breeder is choosing health over conformation. I don't see any reason to fit every body in the same round peg.

Keep in mind, that unlike a show breeder, who many grow out several kits for many months, it's possible that a meat breeder is pulling most of the kits so young, he/she would have no idea about long term health.<br /><br />__________ Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:28 pm __________<br /><br />

I am one breeder who prefers smaller litter sizes in terms of numbers, mainly because my overall experience is that rabbits from smaller litters develop better over the long haul, they make more efficient use of what limited cage space I have, and they turn out to be plenty adequate mothers and fathers as adults. I'd much rather have 3-6 really good kits than 8+ average ones.

Don't judge the bucks' or does' success based upon how many rabbits wind up in each nest box. Unless you're specifically raising them on a commercial basis, choose quality over quantity, and the rest will usually take care of itself.

The problem for me is I would have no way to chose which ones to cull to reduce litter size. Trying to do that before 4 weeks is near impossible, and after four weeks, the burden of the growth is no longer on the dam anyway, for me the culls have been separated from the litter. One of my best and fastest growing new does was placed in a cull meat pen at 5 weeks, fed nothing but forage, and was weighted at Jr weight at 11 weeks. In that case, besides genetics,the dam had nothing to do with that, it was a litter of 12.

 

[SatinsRule]

I am one breeder who prefers smaller litter sizes in terms of numbers, mainly because my overall experience is that rabbits from smaller litters develop better over the long haul, they make more efficient use of what limited cage space I have, and they turn out to be plenty adequate mothers and fathers as adults. I'd much rather have 3-6 really good kits than 8+ average ones.

Don't judge the bucks' or does' success based upon how many rabbits wind up in each nest box. Unless you're specifically raising them on a commercial basis, choose quality over quantity, and the rest will usually take care of itself.

The problem for me is I would have no way to chose which ones to cull to reduce litter size. Trying to do that before 4 weeks is near impossible, and after four weeks, the burden of the growth is no longer on the dam anyway, for me the culls have been separated from the litter. One of my best and fastest growing new does was placed in a cull meat pen at 5 weeks, fed nothing but forage, and was weighted at Jr weight at 11 weeks. In that case, besides genetics,the dam had nothing to do with that, it was a litter of 12.

There is nothing exact about any of what I said, but my point is that the bunnies which are brought to weaning have a much higher percentage of being competitive on the show table when they come from litters of less than 8 rabbits. Avril's litter from late last November is an exception, but the vast majority of babies born in smaller litters tend to get bigger, faster and are more balanced in the end than most of the babies brought up in large litters, and it is a lot easier to manage cage space for me than it would be with twice as many babies born with every nest that a doe builds. I don't wind up culling out nearly as many bunnies, either.

 

[avdpas77]

My opinion, for what its worth; don't get out of rabbits, just get out of show rabbits.

Successful show animals are line bred (inbred) animals coming from others line bred animals, from other rabbitrys of line bred animals. The chance of any of the kits being a quality show animal is high.. but they have been bred over and over again for confirmation, not health or fertility or ability to raise kits.

If you want to consistently win at big shows of popular breeds like Californians, or minilops or NZW, you are going to need to line breed. I paid $150 dollars for a blue mini-lop buck 30 years ago for my daughter and it was worth every bit of it... because she won at shows and people wanted her rabbits and were willing to pay high prices for them. Actually she was winning small shows before, due to a good rabbit line, but the big show wins started when she got this buck. As the line breeding goes on, one gets more kits of a high quality, but the vigor goes down hill.

So If you just like raising rabbits and want big litters. Pick your bucks and does out at 6 weeks old from does with a litter of 8 or more (don'ut take the breeders word for it, pick the rabbits out before they are weaned) You will know the kit carries genetics for big litters and the genetics for being a health rabbit and a good mother. Pic the does and bucks out from different breeders, and if you want really healthy rabbits pick them out between different varieties.

So you know I'm going to get back onto my soapbox. This show rabbits have ruined the world is a load of dung from the lips of PETA.

Sorry Sky,

If I gave that impression then I worded my post poorly.
I have raised lots of winning show animals and I have all kinds of trophies and plaques to prove it. Including three national championships (not in rabbits)

Show animals are great. But in breeding for confirmation and having a high percentage of top show animals, litter size, fertility, and vigor are secondary selections. One can see the same thing in dairy goats... they are not even necessarily raised for show, but they have many more kidding problems etc, than your average meat goat, because they are selected primarily for milk production and udder conformation. There is NOTHING wrong with this. It is what is being Primarily sought after. A beginner, though is going to have a much harder learning curve buying these kinds of animals than if he buys healthy mutts. A few people may end up with the best of both worlds but not many.

As a show breeder, one is fine with having a fewer kits. They grow faster, and all a Show breeder needs is a few top quality animals a year. The OP had "mutts" at one time and had no problem with them. If he is raising them for meat or pleasure, then he is better off not having line breed rabbits.

I am not bad mouthing show rabbits at all, simply saying that they may not be the best for someone who is a beginner or wants to raise for meat.

 

[skysthelimit]

It's like my German Shepherd s, if you want to do both conformation and performance, you need to find someone who does both. Finding someone who raises dual purpose animals isn't easy, but finding quality anywhere isn't easy, because there are more people raising crap on both ends than there are people raising good animals.

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

It's like my German Shepherd s, if you want to do both conformation and performance, you need to find someone who does both. Finding someone who raises dual purpose animals isn't easy, but finding quality anywhere isn't easy, because there are more people raising crap on both ends than there are people raising good animals.

SO very true.

 

[Azul2342]

What can i do with this...big and healthy..but an apparent broken leg or spine...very sad<br /><br />__________ Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:51 pm __________<br /><br />Moves around fine..doesn't seemed bothered/hurt...I'm gonna have trouble if the best thing to do is cull...maybe keep as my little disabled pet...at another loss here

 

[Dood]

Looks like splay leg. http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Bone_disea ... layleg.htm

There is no treatment. The rabbit will rub its hind legs raw as it gains weight, will get urine burn and may be malnurished if it cannot eat its cecotropes.

Death would be a blessing for this little guy. Animals don't care how long they live as long as they don't suffer in the life they have.

There is also some evidence that it is genetic. I would not recommend breeding his parents or siblings.

 

[LauraNJ]

I've had birds with splay legs that I managed to fix by taping the legs together so their muscles could build up. I've had a good success rate with parrots but my one chicken is still really splay legged.

Puppies, piglets all can get splay leg. Here is an article on pigs with a picture of how they taped. http://www.thepigsite.com/articles/3299 ... in-piglets

I'd make sure that the bun has a really good grippable surface if you are going to try to rehabilitate.

I have no idea if anyone has ever taped a rabbit and if it is successful but if taping helps a pup or a piglet then I would think it may work on a rabbit.

Since you are willing to keep as a disabled pet it may not hurt to try it and see.

With birds I am retaping sometimes a few times a day, readjusting. I've used both duct tape and vet wrap. Since it is a young bun, you may not have to worry too much about chewing. Even with the chick, after I tape, I take it to water and food and help it move correctly for a few minutes. I actually work with the bird during the day for short periods to help it move correctly.