Count 'em!! Final outcome:

[ladysown]

those kits are very solid looking youngsters. would be a credit to any herd.

 

[grumpy]

those kits are very solid looking youngsters. would be a credit to any herd.

Thanks Ladysown.

I was real happy with how they developed. With 12 kits in the litter,
their weights weren't that bad either. Mama doe held up exceptionally
well considering how many mouths she had to feed.

You can surely tell they're "commercial" style NZW's: Long and a little rangy.
But, give them another 3 months and they'll fill out quite a lot. I'm starting
to get young does that are bumping 12 pounds at a year old, now. It's been
a long road getting the herd to this point.

I was standing there watching them in their new pens yesterday and I
realized, "Yep, this is what I've been lookin' for." Gives a person a positive
sense of accomplishment when all of their efforts come to fruition. I suppose
that's why I'm so particular on what I sell to other folks. If I can't offer
something like what's pictured, they go to the snake fella.

It's a wonder I kept going when I first started this herd. Man oh man, I sure
got a lot of "duds" in the beginning. Rabbits that should have never been sold.
It's no wonder so many folks get frustrated and quit when they can't be at
least partially successful. Early last summer, I bought a group of 20 purebred
Californians from a couple of young ladies who'd had them for meat pens at
the state fair. They didn't want to fool with them after that. Consequently,
they hadn't had the best of care by the time I'd bought them. I picked out 4
young bucks and sold the rest the next shipping day.
Last fall, I kept two, and sold the other two to my snake-guy.
A month or so ago, I made my final decision and sold the other one to my snake guy again.

Now............after all this time, I've got a decent looking buck that's well over
a year old..........and he shows no inclination in wanting to breed. It's enough
to make......ya......crazy!!LOL

I've got a litter of 7 purebred Cals about 4 weeks old. I may end up keeping
one or two young bucks and let the yearling go for snake food if he doesn't
wise up and begin doing his duty. These cals are built like miniature tanks.
They'd cross onto these young does and make some dynamite fryers that
would finish 5+ in 8-9 weeks. I'm surprised every time I weigh a litter of these
crossbreds. They don't "look" like they'd weigh-out as well as they do.

Grumpy.

 

[ladysown]

if you lived up my way Grumpy, I'd be snatching one of them up for my herd. give my herd a boost... though I've done fair well with my buns, only keeping the best and maintaining with just four does. I can't complain overall.

 

[arachyd]

I'm glad you didn't have to cull more of them. Rabbits from a great doe like that - big litters and good milker - are worth keeping in your line. I can only imagine how big they'd be if there were even fewer of them.

 

[BlueMoods]

I agree, I've had a doe handle 20 (7 were ones that needed fostered after I lost the mother) I gave her 10 in the morning and 10 in the evening. They all made it and, grew just fine. Split those 8 and 8 and she can handle feeding twice a day, just not the same kits twice a day.

 

[Randy]

How much feed did the kittens and doe consume in comparison to a typical litter?

 

[BlueMoods]

Good looking rabbits. I would love to see that kind of production form any of my does but, 6-8 per is not bad.

 

[grumpy]

How much feed did the kittens and doe consume in comparison to a typical litter?

Couldn't tell you for sure...but, I do know they ate a double hopper every
day towards the end. 7.5" Fine-X feeder with an extension the same size.

I'm feeding 75-100 pounds of feed per day.

grumpy.

__________ Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:30 pm __________

Good looking rabbits. I would love to see that kind of production form any of my does but, 6-8 per is not bad.

I've worked towards "high litter-count" numbers for several years.
I............may...........have gone a bit....................to far. :x
She surely surprised me. I also had a doe a few weeks before have 15
and saved all but 2.

grumpy.

 

[Lloyd]

A spot of advice! When breeding for replacement stock you don't want to lose size by raising to many in the litter! 4-5 is the most you should give the doe and foster of the rest. that way you end up with super stock quicker. :hooray: :explanation:

 

[Zass]

A spot of advice! When breeding for replacement stock you don't want to lose size by raising to many in the litter! 4-5 is the most you should give the doe and foster of the rest. that way you end up with super stock quicker.

What is your definition of super stock?

I was under the impression that adult size was controlled by genetics and a rabbit would get there eventually, even if born into a large litter.

 

[grumpy]

A spot of advice! When breeding for replacement stock you don't want to lose size by raising to many in the litter! 4-5 is the most you should give the doe and foster of the rest. that way you end up with super stock quicker.

What is your definition of super stock?

I was under the impression that adult size was controlled by genetics and a rabbit would get there eventually, even if born into a large litter.

Can't help but agree 100% Zass...... Genetics is critical.

If a commercial doe CANNOT handle 8 or 9 youngsters, she's history.
I agree, the full litter will grow slower than 3 or 4, but for what I'm doing,
that's defeating my purpose. I've got ""OLD"" does that are at the end of
their production years and they'll have a short litter of 3-5. I'll tattoo a
couple of foster kits and slip 'em in with old doe.

If a doe comes from a litter of 10 or more that are raised by their mama,
they are going to be on the small side. No question about that.
But, the genetic package they bring to the table far surpasses most stock
bred for show. IN a perfect world, the good doe will have 8 kits time after
time and never miss a breeding. I've had does breed 13 times and kindled
13 times.........they never missed.

One I've got my eye on right now is RK-045. She's had her eighth litter
in a row with never a miss. Always 8-12 kits per litter.

That's what I'm after. It's all in the genetics. Shoot, my house cat could
raise 3 or 4 kits......and she's 12 years old.

Grumpy.

 

[EnglishSpot]

Holy cow!! 16!!

A matriarch!!

 

[Miss M]

I know this is an old thread, but those were some amazing buns! :hooray:

 

[Lloyd]

It gives them a head start on the way to becoming very good stock

 

[Dood]

I disagree.

Grumpy breeds for PRODUCTION, as do many of us on the forum, and not the show table so he doesn't want rabbits with a 1/2 inch layer of fat over them to look "filled out" :lol: or who get to senior weight at 6 months

I have never kept a female kit from a litter of less than 7 as a replacement doe

1) I would worry she would prematurely develop internal fat deposits that could limit her future fertility

2) how would I know if she had the right genetics to produce enough milk to feed litters of 8 and get them to 5 pound in 8 weeks if her mother only had to feed 4 :shock:

 

[Zass]

It gives them a head start on the way to becoming very good stock

Again, what is your definition of good stock?


I've had does who were able to feed 9 kits up to 5 lbs at 9 weeks. I've gotten senior weight (very close to 10 lbs) before 6 months. I didn't have to cull or foster to get those weights. The rabbits just had good genetics, good conditions, and maybe a little hybrid vigor .

If I had to cull down a litter to 1/2 size accomplish that. It would be like saying my rabbit was only about 1/2 as capable...or 1/2 as good.

Culling back the litter sizes is more like...a trick to get nicer LOOKING rabbits fast. I don't see how it could do anything to actually improve a line.

Improvement is accomplished by careful selection for traits you want to encourage in herd. There are no head starts or shortcuts to getting there, aside from buying the best starter stock that you can get your hands on.

1) I would worry she would prematurely develop internal fat deposits that could limit her future fertility

Good point Dood, too much fat harms production. You wouldn't want to overfeed a future brood doe.

 

[Celice]

Gosh Grumpy! Those does are fantastic!!

Loving your cages too! did you build them or buy them?

 

[Rainey]

Grumpy wrote "IN a perfect world, the good doe will have 8 kits time after
time and never miss a breeding. I've had does breed 13 times and kindled
13 times.........they never missed."

That is what one of the does we started with last year did--had 8 each time we bred her. But I thought from reading many RT posts about large litter size that the size of her litters was on the small side. Now I'm thinking maybe 8 kits every time--no missing and no kits lost before butcher time--was not so bad. Culled her for biting the hands that fed her, but have kept the best--size, shape and disposition--of her daughters to beed this year. Thanks for helping me see that bigger litters are interesting but not necessarily better after a certain point.

 

[grumpy]

Gosh Grumpy! Those does are fantastic!!

Loving your cages too! did you build them or buy them?

Thank you...Celice.

Yes, I built those cages out of "very-used" cages I took apart and made
them the way I liked. Those are for my growout cages for market fryers.
I don't have to stoop down, bend over, and hurt my back..!! LOL. I've got a
very good pictorial "somewhere" in my subjects/threads.

MILK PRODUCTION....! is a vital part
of the genetic package when it comes to high-production does and their
offspring. That important statistic is gauged on the litter's total weight
at 21 days of age.

You "cannot" guesstimate this...it must be verified by the doe having the
milk production to feed 8 youngsters and have them FLORISH. Not once,
but time after time after time. There's no other way. IF the doe is good
enough..........those 8 youngsters' will shine.

Grumpy.

 

[Zass]

Thanks for helping me see that bigger litters are interesting but not necessarily better after a certain point.

I think most breeders agree that 8 is perfect for meat rabbits. Too many kits will stress a doe's immune system.

But, you know, a doe who can succeed with 12 will be able to give you REALLY good weights with 8. :mrgreen: