Care Routine for healthy meat rabbits?

[JessiL]

I'm with everyone else, in that my buns get plenty of the basics, and frequent treats, but they are not coddled. No heat in the rabbitry, but I did set up a mister system and run it during the hottest days (over 95 degrees). But as folks say, try whatever you like and are enthusiastic about! If your breeding buck and doe tonics seem to work great, report back to us! We definitely could all use more experimentation and thinking out of the box. I was just researching something completely different and came across a scientific paper written by Egyptian ag folk who had tested using bee pollen or Vitamin E supplements to help prevent heat-related sterility in bucks. And either supplement seemed to work! I'm buying bee pollen this summer for sure.

Anyway, why do you plan to sterilize the apple twigs? I can't imagine what could be on them that could hurt the rabbits (as far as pathogens go; pesticide residue would be a different story, and I'd never feed rabbits cuttings from a place that I didn't know the spraying history).

 

[Comet007]

Everywhere I've read has said to sterilize them… we have apple trees and this property has been 100% organic for at least 15 years, so they're probably safe. But we do have eagles, seagulls and a variety of other birds flying about, and there's no saying what they've been eating, and we KNOW what they do on pretty much everything in sight! Our neighboring 25 foot tall cherry tree is a bird magnet! It can't hurt to give them a 10 minute spin in the oven as I've seen others recommend. Bee pollen is an excellent product all the way around, good for as many things as coconut oil - I never could remember to incorporate it into our eating, so I gave it up, which is what I do any time I try something new (like making mayonnaise) but don't enjoy it or find it too much of a pain (like making mayonnaise). So now I pay thru the nose for the only acceptable mayo on the market (to me) and I do keep raw honey on hand, which I love! I thought I loved a good peanut butter and honey sandwich before, but now it's just not the same unless it's raw. Yum!

Yeah, this thread is a little of course, I was more looking to make sure there weren't any basic nutrition, grooming, care, cage cleaning, etc. that I somehow completely missed in my research! Pretty much most of what we do in our household, others tend to think it's not necessary. Eating 90%+ organic and doing it in such a way that we pay on average close to what people pay for regular food takes a lot of work and dedication, and a lot of thinking ahead and trying to figure out what we need to do it right. I sometimes think we'd hear less about our lifestyle if we went back to college-kid diet plan of pizza and beer! And that was BEFORE the rabbits. Pretty much everyone I know shakes their head that we make so much from scratch and spend so much time processing food and cooking! I'm actually pretty surprised that more people on here aren't organic-freaks like us!

I may indeed report back my findings, but in reality our herd will be so small that it might not be a good sampling of what to expect. Also, spending $1.25/mo per rabbit for herbs might be affordable, but I know that to many, paying $30 for a 50 pound bag of organic pellets and $20 for a 65 bale of organic hay might not! For us, if our rabbits aren't organic, then the worms and fertilizer won't be, which means that our garden, fruit trees, and future laying hens wouldn't be either. When I look at it that way, the cost of *organically raised* (edited to remove the word healthy, because I know non-organic rabbits are also still a healthy food) rabbits is relatively small.

 

[michaels4gardens]

I'm actually pretty surprised that more people on here aren't organic-freaks like us!

--We don't spray [chemicals] around here either, and a lot of our food is grown in our garden.
but we do buy our rice and grain products.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I am not a organic freak.......but I grow and raise my own food and really watch what I buy and where it comes from ... china has way to many hands in our food

 

[Comet007]

My term, organic freak… just because I have friends who call us that lol. Growing your own veggies is the best way to be sure that you're not getting harmful crud in your food. And I agree, it's shocking how much of our food isn't grown right here in the US - and with the exception of a few crops, it's not like we couldn't if we want to!

When I was working on the GMO labeling campaign here in WA last year, I was shocked at the amount of GMO contamination is in our foods, too. And don't get me started on what our government is doing to and with the food industry, it's appalling.

Probably for most people, growing your own food and raising your own meat/eggs is good enough that they will see health benefits, even if using GMO/sprayed grains or GMO seeds. I do think that we don't even know yet how many of our health problems are linked to those sprays and GMO foods. But, I do know that it's difficult to avoid these things altogether, and for most people, the medical advances that have occurred alongside the degradation of our food supply will still result in a longer life.

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I hear ya comet..when it comes to our food and what they are doing to it.. I am all ears.. I have a big interest when it comes to this kind of stuff .. You should start a new thread about it

 

[Comet007]

I hear ya comet..when it comes to our food and what they are doing to it.. I am all ears.. I have a big interest when it comes to this kind of stuff .. You should start a new thread about it

I think I've created enough controversy on this forum already by doing the organic rabbit feed and using organic herbal preventatives and remedies lol. This is a topic that for some reason can really raise ire in those who are choosing to stick with mainstream food. Even here where I live - we have a very active slow food/organic food movement, I've found very few people who choose to have such a large percentage of their food be organic.

 

[DogCatMom]

[snip] This is a topic that for some reason can really raise ire in those who are choosing to stick with mainstream food. Even here where I live - we have a very active slow food/organic food movement, I've found very few people who choose to have such a large percentage of their food be organic.

My feeling on why this is so: there was a LOT of support for organic methods and organic food until the USDA published its first draft of nationwide "organic" regulations several years ago. The CCOF and Oregon Tilth and other associations of organic growers/animal raisers raised All Holy "Heck" about those regulations, since sewage sludge--with its accumulation of pharmaceuticals, heavy metals, and who knows what else--was initially included as an approved "organic" soil amendment!

At least that bit was dropped upon final publication, but the overall effect of the USDA "organic" regulations was to water down the stringent organic practices the CCOF and Oregon Tilth had required for their certifications up to that time. :angry: Then, when one adds to this mess the "corporate organic" labels that have appeared on--for instance--Safeway-brand foods and Lucky/Raley's-brand foods, plus the scandal a couple of years ago about Whole Foods' "organic" frozen veggies brought in from China without supply-chain verification, one can understand why the reputation of organic foods has, sadly, dropped quite a bit. It's no longer clear to buyers that their extra money is in fact supporting careful, Earth-, health-, and animal-friendly practices.

At this point, it's a LOT MORE WORK than it was 7 or 8 years ago for the individual cook/eater to verify that something is truly organic from the ground up. I grow as much of our veggie consumption as I can in my 96 sq ft of veggie boxes, and the rest of our produce is purchased at a local produce store which specializes in local farm goods, with (sigh) out-of-season produce brought in through wholesalers from other countries. I just don't buy any produce from other countries except for mangoes and bananas, which aren't grown in sufficient quantities in North America to be practical. When I want to (and can afford to) purchase organic food, I look for Oregon Tilth or other independent 3rd-party organic certification (CCOF merged w/Oregon Tilth in June 2013).

So, for me, the functional categories of food are

--non-organic
--corporate and/or USDA "organic"
--true organic

 

[BlueMoods]

I don't do 100% organic simply because of the cost around here. I would if I could afford it but, I am not paying 45.00 for a bag of dog food and, that is what it would cost, same with other things. Milk 3.78 vs 7.49 a gallon - can't afford that. I do make sure any seed I get is a heritage variety and grow all I can given the land we have (that is all of our produce except potatoes.) We buy 50 lbs of potatoes a year, that's all we get.

I don't do doctors so rely on herbal remedies a lot. DH does have doctor but he has hard to control hypertension so, needs that for now. (he's loosing weight and getting that under more natural control but, being a truck driver, not a lot of time for exercise so, it's slow going.)

I've seen what goes on in processing plants (just go for a ride on a refrigerated semi and a cattle wagon for a month) It's horrid and, I don't want to eat that stuff. That 10% "Other" in ground meat products like hot dogs and such bugs me and scares me - what is it that they don't have to and, thus are not telling us is in there?

No one really knows what the long term effects of GMO will be, and that is scary. I don't like it but, can't afford to avoid it entirely around here.

 

[Comet007]

DogCatMom: You have a lot more knowledge than the average person about the history of the organic certifications - those are objections that I can understand. In my real life experience, most people don't know the history - it's more the attitude of, you have to die from something - or, people live longer now, so it must not be that bad. Things like that bug me - in the same realm of people who shrug off our government wasting money and/or just plain mis-using funds.

It is a LOT of work to verify, I know. And even then sometimes you have to take a leap of faith. It's why I find favorite brands based on the information available and try to stay within those. It helps that our baking/cooking staples are fairly local and we do a lot from scratch. That's a second LOT of work lol!


@BlueMoods: I agree, the cost can be prohibitive. I have found that once I sourced my food from a variety of sources, I was able to get our costs way down. We are using less and less processed foods as we go along, and I think at this point we are only spending a little more to eat organic than what we were spending before. NOT including start up costs for the bunny barn & equipment! I am working on my amortization schedules for every item purchased and will be factoring a bit of the cost into each pound of meat harvested. It will interesting to see what the actual cost/pound comes out to in the end!

As for dog food - we make their food, so it's pretty healthy, but… it's not organic unless we have veggie scraps that make their way into a batch! I'm hoping that with rabbits and a garden and next year some laying hens we will be switching them to organic. Except… I'm starting to think that if we sell the rabbits that would have been dog food to people who want organic meat, we could really off-set some of our feed/care costs! Our dogs are very healthy as is, so we might end up doing that.

I wish that I could abstain from modern medicine - I've tried and do use a variety of non-pharma remedies, but I have moderate to severe chronic pain 24/7, and life simply wouldn't be bearable without them. I am fortunate to have a doctor who looks at everything and is on board when I want to try off the wall non-pharma things, and has even suggested some that I use.

GMO is scary to me - like many other things in the past that caused harm, but it didn't show up for decades. It will be interesting to watch in the next decades what information comes out. If we can trust the information, LOL! <br /><br /> __________ Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:29 pm __________ <br /><br /> I'm working on my cost spreadsheet - I'm amazed at how cheap it will be to use the preventatives! So far:

1 T OACV per 64 oz water bottle - 5 cents
1/2 T Echinacea per day - 4 cents
1 T Tummy Mix per week - est. 8 cents (need to price the dill & fennel)
1 T Kindling Mix per day, 28 days per litter - 9 cents per day
ear mix - 10 drops once a month - 4 cents per application

Food is more:
10 oz organic pellets - 45 cents per day
5 oz hay - 12 cents per day (I have no idea if 5 oz is the correct amount, I will be weighing as I add it to the cage!)

 

[BlueMoods]

You really don't need ear mite drops unless there are ear mites. I might get one or two rabbits a year that get them and, three days consecutive with VetRX does the trick, without fail so, I'd just treat those if they happen (that's usually when bringing a new rabbit in that has them, and one of the older ones in a neighboring cage get them too.) I do like your Tummy mix and, will be adding that to my care when I get to T-Town this weekend to get the ingredients I still need to make it.

10 Oz may be a bit too much on the pellets for dry does and adult bucks, and you will want to free feed just weaned kits and nursing does once the kits start nibbling the pellets so, that cost may not hold.

I know what you mean, I have mild, some days moderate chronic pain but so far can manage with Epsom salt baths and inner willow bark shredded very fine and taken with slippery elm (only way I am going to swallow that stuff.) It works but, If I had to work, no time for the 30 minute bath in the middle of the day so I'd probably have to find a doctor. (My grandmother was a native American and a very good "medicine woman" so I learned a lot from her, except that was for the Rockies and, I'm way south of that now so, don't have all of the plants I know down here and, am still experimenting and learning what the ones I do have here are good for.)

All I know first hand of GMO is that it caused deformed chicks from my chickens. The first year I had them, I fed the cheapest feed, GMO cracked corn, got about 25% of the chicks with wry neck or played legs at hatching. Stopped that and went to the non GMO scratch the next year, same chickens and, not a single problem.

 

[michaels4gardens]

If the stores all closed tomorrow, -- we would be fine with out them. we have a huge garden, save our seed, and bottle a lot.
We fertileze with sheep / rabbit manure made [mostly] from hay grown here.

 

[Comet007]

You really don't need ear mite drops unless there are ear mites. I might get one or two rabbits a year that get them and, three days consecutive with VetRX does the trick, without fail so, I'd just treat those if they happen (that's usually when bringing a new rabbit in that has them, and one of the older ones in a neighboring cage get them too.) I do like your Tummy mix and, will be adding that to my care when I get to T-Town this weekend to get the ingredients I still need to make it.

10 Oz may be a bit too much on the pellets for dry does and adult bucks, and you will want to free feed just weaned kits and nursing does once the kits start nibbling the pellets so, that cost may not hold.

I know what you mean, I have mild, some days moderate chronic pain but so far can manage with Epsom salt baths and inner willow bark shredded very fine and taken with slippery elm (only way I am going to swallow that stuff.) It works but, If I had to work, no time for the 30 minute bath in the middle of the day so I'd probably have to find a doctor. (My grandmother was a native American and a very good "medicine woman" so I learned a lot from her, except that was for the Rockies and, I'm way south of that now so, don't have all of the plants I know down here and, am still experimenting and learning what the ones I do have here are good for.)

All I know first hand of GMO is that it caused deformed chicks from my chickens. The first year I had them, I fed the cheapest feed, GMO cracked corn, got about 25% of the chicks with wry neck or played legs at hatching. Stopped that and went to the non GMO scratch the next year, same chickens and, not a single problem.

That's crazy about the chickens! That must have been so discouraging and frustrating to deal with! Confirmation once again that I want to stay away from GMO feeds!

Well, I already have all the ingredients for the ear drops, so I'll use it. In post #14 of this thread I talked about the Vet-RX and why I decided I don't want to use it. I put together my calculations for the cost of my ear drop mixture - it comes out to 4 cents per month per rabbit, so pretty cheap prevention in my book. An ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure to my way of looking at it.

For the weight I had only calculated adult rabbit feed so far, using worst case cost based on a 12 pound rabbit (I was looking at high end for when our new doe's are full grown) and that I keep reading that rabbits eat one ounce per pound of their weight, but then I knocked it down a little bit because from what I've read, people don't feed them that much! It's frustrating because it hasn't been clear in anything that I've read whether that is an ounce of ALL foods, or an ounce of pellets PLUS hay, and everyone feeds different amounts, and uses different protein levels, so some need more or less based on that… I will be weighing the feed and keeping track of what I use, probably for the first year because it might vary with the seasons. Or it might not, because we have such a moderate climate!

My 5 oz per day of hay was a random guess too, because I want to free feed, but I haven't read anywhere what amount free feed is. I've read everything from the same volume as the rabbits size up to FIVE times their size in a day - that's quite a range! I have the buck down as eating 8 oz of pellets and 4 oz of hay. I will be a happy camper if these numbers are too high, because it will mean my costs will be lower.

For nursing doe's I have not done any calculations, but I do know they need more food. Everyone just says "free feed" and a wide range of how many pounds of feed total to raise a litter. I've seen everything from $3 of feed for every pound of rabbit at processing, up to $6 of feed per pound. Except the fact that I am budgeting for almost an ounce of feed per pound of rabbit, to start I will follow what I found on a NZ breeder's website (Cross Roads Rabbitry) that said the following:

Bucks: (Med Breed) = 3 to 6oz. (Large Breed) = 6 to 8oz.
Does: (Med) = 4 to 6oz. (Large) = 8 to 9oz.
Does (when bred and between 1-15 days): (Med) = 6oz. (Large) = 9oz.
Does (when bred and between 16-30 days): (Med) = 7 to 8oz. (Large) = 10 to 11oz.
Doe (with a litter of 6-8 kits / 1 week old): (Med) = 9 to 10oz. (Large) = 12 to 13oz.
Doe (with a litter of 6-8 kits / 1 month old): (Med) = 18oz. (Large) = 24 to 30oz.
Doe (with a litter of 6-8 kits / 6-8 weeks old): (Med) = 28oz. (Large) = 36oz to full feed.
Doe (after litter is weaned): (Med) = 4 to 6oz. (Large) = 8 to 9oz.
A young and weaned rabbit: (Med) = 3 to 6oz. (Large) = 6 to 9oz.

I like to plan for the worst, and will be happy because my numbers will go down, not up, once I start tracking. I'm also planning to process the rabbits at around 4.5 pounds vs. the 5 pounds (maybe), based on what Grumpy had written, that the last weight over 4.5 pounds costs more in feed than the previous weight gained.

Here's the info from post 14 regarding the Vet-RX
I appreciate the info on it, but I looked at the VetRX, and I wasn't thrilled about the corn oil base in general, since so much of our corn is GMO these days! Vet-RX ingredients: Made with 3.3% (v-v) alcohol U.S.P. The mixture contains Canada balsam, camphor, oil origanum, oil rosemary, blended in a corn oil base. It actually has the camphor (which interestingly enough, rosemary contains as much as 20% camphor oil!) and rosemary oil, which I will also be using.

I actually wanted the camphor oil anyway, because it can also be used as a local anesthetic, is antimicrobial, is an anti-itch agent, a cooling agent, and can help with inflammation! For $2 for a little bottle, that's worth having in my book! Rosemary oil also has other uses that might come in handy, being antiseptic, a pain reliever, and a calming agent, among other things. And of course, I will already have the tea tree oil and OACV for other health purposes, so really I just need the mineral oil. Though maybe I'll just use olive oil, since I already have that too!

 

[michaels4gardens]

For the weight I had only calculated adult rabbit feed so far, using worst case cost based on a 12 pound rabbit (I was looking at high end for when our new doe's are full grown) and that I keep reading that rabbits eat one ounce per pound of their weight, but then I knocked it down a little bit because from what I've read, people don't feed them that much! It's frustrating because it hasn't been clear in anything that I've read whether that is an ounce of ALL foods, or an ounce of pellets PLUS hay, and everyone feeds different amounts, and uses different protein levels, so some need more or less based on that… I will be weighing the feed and keeping track of what I use, probably for the first year because it might vary with the seasons. Or it might not, because we have such a moderate climate!

The 1 oz / day / lb of body wieght, is for pellets [and is just a starting place] your rabbits will probly eat/ need less then this, but some Does do need that much. You will have to just get started and feed the recomended amount then adjust it depending on the needs of your stock. If you figgure the 1 oz in calculating your pellet costs, you should err on the high side. The hay you add will be in addition to the pellet ration, and the amount will vary dependant on Doe / litter needs, and hay quality.
--------Rabbits fed greens,and root vegetables will eat at least 3x that amount by weight because of all the water in the food. ----------------------------------------------------------------It seems complicated before you get started, because there are so many variables-
- BUT--
- it is really not all that complicated once you get started, - if the Doe/ Buck is getting fat-- just reduce her/ his pellet ration. --if they need to gain weight -- just add a little more food to the ration.

 

[Comet007]

Thanks - I was referring to trying to figure out a good starting point is complicated, because of all the variables in diets and nutrition profiles and weather and… adjusting once I see how they do with the food provided will be the easy part in comparison!

 

[BlueMoods]

I don't weigh my hay out but, I use square bales and 1 flake off the bale (it naturally flakes off) is enough for six rabbits for a day, I get roughly 20 flakes per bale at 8.00 a bale that isn't costly at all. (about 7 cents per rabbit per day.)

I feed 4 OZ pellets a day to my bucks and dry does, they are caged so not a lot of running around, burning it off. The pregnant does are free fed from 21 days through weaning and, the grow outs are free fed. (to 16 weeks if I'm keeping them as breeder replacements, if not they don't live that long, they are butcher weight at 8 to 12 weeks, depending on the parents - some of mine grow faster than others due to having a cali doe, cali buck and the velveteens in the mix.)

I'm also the type that nothing that eats around here ever knows what hungry means, humans or animals. As my DH tells guests "If you leave here hungry, it's your own fault for not shoving the food in your mouth."

 

[Comet007]

I don't weigh my hay out but, I use square bales and 1 flake off the bale (it naturally flakes off) is enough for six rabbits for a day, I get roughly 20 flakes per bale at 8.00 a bale that isn't costly at all. (about 7 cents per rabbit per day.)

I feed 4 OZ pellets a day to my bucks and dry does, they are caged so not a lot of running around, burning it off. The pregnant does are free fed from 21 days through weaning and, the grow outs are free fed. (to 16 weeks if I'm keeping them as breeder replacements, if not they don't live that long, they are butcher weight at 8 to 12 weeks, depending on the parents - some of mine grow faster than others due to having a cali doe, cali buck and the velveteens in the mix.)

I'm also the type that nothing that eats around here ever knows what hungry means, humans or animals. As my DH tells guests "If you leave here hungry, it's your own fault for not shoving the food in your mouth."

Ok, thanks! How heavy are your bales? If I'm reading what you said correctly, a bale of hay lasts you 20 days for six adult rabbits? DH picked up our hay last weekend, but I haven't gone out to look at it yet, so not sure how many flakes are in the bales. Assuming (we know what that means!) that your bales are 65 pounds like ours, since we only have 3 rabbits, a bale will last 40 days for us. That works out to .54 pounds of hay per day - or, keeping it simple, 8 oz of hay per day? This is for adult size, which of course our two doe's are only 12 weeks old, so they may eat less to start, but I like the estimate at full weight as a starter.

Of course, if you have 50 pound bales then my math will be wrong!

 

[BlueMoods]

The bales I get average 80 lbs. They are Bermuda and orchard grass mix. Some are as light as 70 lbs but never lighter than that but for math you could figure them at 80 and be pretty close to what I am giving the rabbits. (That does not count the extra few handfuls given for nesting, just feeding hay.)

 

[Comet007]

Great! Thank you! So… 80 pounds divided by 20 days, divided by 6 buns equals closer to .67 pounds or 10.72 ounces per day per rabbit. 10 ounces of hay per day is 24 cents per rabbit with our transitional organic hay. That's a good starter point for me - and only time will tell how much pellets they use vs. how much hay. The pellets are 17% protein, with an alfalfa base, so I'm not really sure how that factors into how much volume is consumed.

 

[skysthelimit]

I think I've created enough controversy on this forum already by doing the organic rabbit feed and using organic herbal preventatives and remedies lol. This is a topic that for some reason can really raise ire in those who are choosing to stick with mainstream food. Even here where I live - we have a very active slow food/organic food movement, I've found very few people who choose to have such a large percentage of their food be organic.

Not at all . I'm all for organic feed and herbal remedies, just not preventatives.

I wish I could be more organic. But it's expensive. Buying organic food is a costly thing. It's easy to say it's a better quality and offers a better quality of life, but when you are paying real cash, and fresh, organic veggies and meat cost twice that of froze foods, you need to stretch that budget. Growing your own food is great, but on small city plots, it's not possible to grow enough food to sustain a family, much less a single person through the non growing season. Especially if you work full time. <br /><br /> __________ Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:01 pm __________ <br /><br />

paying $30 for a 50 pound bag of organic pellets and $20 for a 65 bale of organic hay might not!

With no income for this rabbitry, I would quickly be out of business. I was using 2 1/2 bags of feed a week. Now that I'm unemployed, I cut my herd down 1/3, I am finally down to 1.25 bags a week. Hay is hard enough to get, so hard that I go without it for months, and when I get it, it's only for food, I no longer put hay in my nest boxes.