Breeding for temperament

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Albert

Albert

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Joined
Jan 18, 2022
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Location
Creuse, France
I've read in quite a few places that you should cull out bad mother's and aggressive rabbits because these are not traits you want in your breeding line.

My question is the opposite true? Can you breed in good traits like temperament? Or more so can you improve temperament through breeding or is it more nurture than nature?

I know that some breeds are know for their sweet nature's so genetics must play a part I guess?
 
Two out of three of my Does are very grunty and we put them with nice Bucks and they've been giving very nice kits

Usually an attitude change is because they really want babies 😐

I think that it would be possible to breed good temperament with a not so good one and get good babies
 
I do believe genetics plays a role but you want to be careful. We do cull for temperament here because we are a small operation and my grown daughter who helps me did not grow up with animals other than dogs. But we are judicious even then. For example, we had to cull a doe for killing a litter of kits. We did manage to save the best kit though who is a large well formed and even tempered animal. So we are giving her a chance. We have another doe who stays on "our line" of good vs bad tempered but she throws 12 kit litters so she keeps getting a pass.
 
Attude is an extremely important trait. Bad attude can be caused by stress. Rabbits stress easy. Are the pens of adequate size ? Clean . Do you feed on a regular schedule if on a maintenance diet? Are they getting enough food of the correct quality n dietary needs? Clean water at all times.
A buck near her may make her nervous. If she is on the ground, could she have parasites, possibly ones that spread ? Just spit balling here but the environment they are in is important. And then again some just need to be culled. As written earlier, we had a Californian doe, when she had babies she would grab the pen door n shake it as she protected her kits. I would have to block her in her pen to check the kits. She would throw 10-12 kits. When she didn't have babies she was just a bit grumpy. Her kits all got harvested so no genetics to worry about
 
rabbits are SO strange.

I had a rabbit here... nasty piece of work, she'd kill mice invading her space, and would launch herself out of a cage. BEFORE I knew better I chose to rehome her. She fell in love with her new person's daughter and was the sweetest rabbit EVER for that girl. NOT good with anyone or anything else. They tried to breed her unsuccessfully so mom said Don't want this rabbit and rehomed her (daughter was apparently very upset by this as she liked having a rabbit no one else could mess with)... and the new owner messaged me (as they passed along her pedigree) and asked "how did you handle her?" I said I didn't. Sold her cage and all... Rabbit came back to me as being aggressive (and by then I knew better) and she was quietly euthanized.

But yes, you can breed in temperament but you have to mindful that bad temperaments can hide. :) I've been breeding up from my own stock for over 15 years. Two years ago out of a very quiet doe I got a highstrung kit and I wondered where it came from until I looked back in her pedigree and said "OH... you have great-grandma's temperament!" She was euthanized as great-granda was related to pyscho bunny above and I wasn't going to risk that.

You also need to decide what you call bad temperament.
My definition: a rabbit that will persistently try to bite me or will launch itself out of a cage at me. Does get two chances (as the first is normally hormonal), bucks get one. I will NEVER keep a buck that thinks biting me is an option ... this simply because bucks affect so much of the herd, I don't want to risk breeding that in. I've had bucks that are rough with the does (when I was still learning) and I don't want my ladies hurt needlessly.

In regards to bad mothers.... my standard is this: if every other proven doe is doing her job and this particular doe is not... She leaves. If other does are having issues ... then I look into my husbandry.... are there predators, bad weather, etc causing problems? Many people doe the three strikes and you are out rule... mine isn't quite that.

A bad temperament is NOT
1. a doe who has just had kits for up to 10 days old.
2. a hormonal young doe wanting to be bred
3. a scared rabbit that reacts unexpectedly
4. a doe that grunts at me because "I WANT FOOD FIRST!!!" or "ME!!! pet ME first". I have days I"m stupidly demanding or things that I want to have first ... so I can tolerate a doe who is demanding. :)
5. a virgin doe who fails with her first litter.
 
ladysown said:
rabbits are SO strange.

I had a rabbit here... nasty piece of work, she'd kill mice invading her space, and would launch herself out of a cage. BEFORE I knew better I chose to rehome her. She fell in love with her new person's daughter and was the sweetest rabbit EVER for that girl. NOT good with anyone or anything else. They tried to breed her unsuccessfully so mom said Don't want this rabbit and rehomed her (daughter was apparently very upset by this as she liked having a rabbit no one else could mess with)... and the new owner messaged me (as they passed along her pedigree) and asked "how did you handle her?" I said I didn't. Sold her cage and all... Rabbit came back to me as being aggressive (and by then I knew better) and she was quietly euthanized.

But yes, you can breed in temperament but you have to mindful that bad temperaments can hide. :) I've been breeding up from my own stock for over 15 years. Two years ago out of a very quiet doe I got a highstrung kit and I wondered where it came from until I looked back in her pedigree and said "OH... you have great-grandma's temperament!" She was euthanized as great-granda was related to pyscho bunny above and I wasn't going to risk that.

You also need to decide what you call bad temperament.
My definition: a rabbit that will persistently try to bite me or will launch itself out of a cage at me. Does get two chances (as the first is normally hormonal), bucks get one. I will NEVER keep a buck that thinks biting me is an option ... this simply because bucks affect so much of the herd, I don't want to risk breeding that in. I've had bucks that are rough with the does (when I was still learning) and I don't want my ladies hurt needlessly.

In regards to bad mothers.... my standard is this: if every other proven doe is doing her job and this particular doe is not... She leaves. If other does are having issues ... then I look into my husbandry.... are there predators, bad weather, etc causing problems? Many people doe the three strikes and you are out rule... mine isn't quite that.

A bad temperament is NOT
1. a doe who has just had kits for up to 10 days old.
2. a hormonal young doe wanting to be bred
3. a scared rabbit that reacts unexpectedly
4. a doe that grunts at me because "I WANT FOOD FIRST!!!" or "ME!!! pet ME first". I have days I"m stupidly demanding or things that I want to have first ... so I can tolerate a doe who is demanding. :)
5. a virgin doe who fails with her first litter.
Click to expand...
If I had a rabbit that killed mice I would keep it LOL. That would be it's only job and I would treat it nicely LOL
 
ladysown said:
r I will NEVER keep a buck that thinks biting me is an option ... this simply because bucks affect so much of the herd, I don't want to risk breeding that in. I've had bucks that are rough with the does (when I was still learning) and I don't want my ladies hurt needlessly.
Click to expand...
Sometimes bucks are just odd, and take against one person. I had a buck I really wanted to keep, but for some reason he started biting me and drawing blood. Knowing that sometimes a buck will be like that with one person but not another, I decided to give him a chance and asked a friend if they would take him. From the day he arrived at his new home he was as sweet as anything and loves cuddles; never bitten anyone since. I don't know why he became like that (at puberty); I was always nice to him, and when he was young he was calm and handled a lot by me.
 
MsTemeraire said:
Sometimes bucks are just odd, and take against one person. I had a buck I really wanted to keep, but for some reason he started biting me and drawing blood. Knowing that sometimes a buck will be like that with one person but not another, I decided to give him a chance and asked a friend if they would take him. From the day he arrived at his new home he was as sweet as anything and loves cuddles; never bitten anyone since. I don't know why he became like that (at puberty); I was always nice to him, and when he was young he was calm and handled a lot by me.
Click to expand...
This is probably me being a bit weird but I always wash my hands with an unscented soap before handling the bunnies or our new kits. I don't know if it's a factor but I don't want my fingers mistaken for a treat!

And I don't want the mother to think her kits and yummy either!
 
Albert said:
This is probably me being a bit weird but I always wash my hands with an unscented soap before handling the bunnies or our new kits. I don't know if it's a factor but I don't want my fingers mistaken for a treat!

And I don't want the mother to think her kits and yummy either!
Click to expand...
Good point!
 
Years ago we had the nicest tempered buck imaginable, 'Grinlow's Dozer'. All of his offspring got his sweet temperament which was surprising. That line still to this day is much sweeter than the others, almost to the extent of being 'needy'. I've had a couple bucks from his line which were sold to a pet home since they'd not be happy as a hutch rabbit. These are all English angora, though, they've been bred for human interaction since they have to get a haircut three times a year. Anybunny who doesn't tolerate hands on humans shouldn't be an angora.

Hmm, our concerns when breeding are:
1. fiber quality
2. temperament
3. conformation
4. general health
5. litter size
6. color

Conformation and general health are kinda interchangeable.
 
I will not keep any rabbit who tries to bite, lunges at my hand if I stick it in the cage, etc. Does who kill their babies get two chances then they are gone. If I can't easily handle a rabbit without getting slashed, kicked, bit, etc they don't hang around. The Champagne d'Argents I had were ALL psycho lol. It wouldn't have mattered how much I pet and loved on them, to handle them you had to wear thick shirts and kevlar sleeves. I have a scar across my wrist from my buck I had plus scars on my stomach.
If a doe with kits is protective I will let it slide because I can deal with that. If she has that same attitude all the time that doesn't work. I'm not fond of the super sensitive, flighty rabbits either.
I breed for calm disposition, conformation and color that meets the breed standard, heat tolerance and good mothering abilities.
 
Some times biters grow out of it. I have a doe that is mature and I was ready to kill it because she bites. I didn't get around to it because I wanted to do it when she had her winter coat. When I was ready to kill it it didn't bite any more. Don't know if she mellowed in her old age or if she finally got used to me. I can now pet her every day but I am on guard in case she bites.
 
I have seen cranky moms raise cranky kits. I have never had a cranky buck. They have always been the loviest.

I do cull against extra rage-y animals, and breed toward pleasant ones, but as I am not raising pets it is not as high a priority for me as general health and productivness. I believe 100% that there is a heireditary component, whether that is genetic or learned from mom I am not sure. Probably both.

I also admit to being often in a hurry and less patient than I ought to be. It is a rare day that I have to just hang out with them, and it shows. So I give them a pass. They need to be civil, and not lunge. If I start to be afraid to put my hand in the cage without a glove on, I am done, but if they warn me by grunting I will just push them out of the way and let them be, while I am cleaning or whatever. It is not their fault that I don't have time for treats and scritches all the time. When I or the kids do, they gentle down pretty quickly.
 
'Epigenetics' is probably what is going on with rabbits passing on certain traits like these behaviors. Learning about epigenetics is fascinating, and I can see how it would be involved in some of these rabbit traits as well as people. Epigenetics is modifiable traits outside of the genetics that are passed down to offspring along with their genes.
 

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