I breed mine starting atv4-5 months for everyone type of Rabbit owned. If not producing by 7 months I usually sell to pet homes unless my boys object.
3 strikes clarification
- Thread starter Rainey
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I bred in the 4-5 months range as well, so long as it's not in the middle of the summer.
Okay, you folks have way more experience than me, which is why I'm here 
So as I understand it, an English lop is considered a large breed. Right now both does are 4 1/2 months +/- a bit. If I'm understanding the last few posts, the recommendation, even with the issues I've described above, would be to breed both again now rather than waiting a few months? If so, will this help the instinct to nurse and take care of the kits better than the first kindle? I'm sure the buck would have no issues with having a couple of dates, but don't want to go through the same situations.
Thanks for your insight.
So as I understand it, an English lop is considered a large breed. Right now both does are 4 1/2 months +/- a bit. If I'm understanding the last few posts, the recommendation, even with the issues I've described above, would be to breed both again now rather than waiting a few months? If so, will this help the instinct to nurse and take care of the kits better than the first kindle? I'm sure the buck would have no issues with having a couple of dates, but don't want to go through the same situations.
Thanks for your insight.
You might be in the wrong hobby. It might be better to get proven does or find a breeder that culls hard for successful first litters to reduce the common startup losses. From the average rabbit the risk of losing first litters is pretty high at all ages, many will say you should just expect it so you aren't too upset about it happening, and the risk of losing the 2nd litter is also higher than most future litters. Waiting is not going to teach your does what to do. Some simply have to practice but some won't get it which is why we quote the 3 strike rule as the point to give up on a rabbit. No one has probably tested rabbit hormones per age but I also think part of the reason earlier breeding and frequent breeding can work better is that the hormones are higher when they are younger and are kept up if they are regularly bred compared to not being exposed to a buck. Aside from desire to breed hormones impact their desire to nest and take care of kits.
I think your chances of first time misses are lower with meat rabbits. Especially if you can get stock from breeders who cull hard for mothering ability.
Since I started raising rabbits about a year and 1/2 ago, I've lost 1 litter. That's 12 litters to virgin does with only 1 lost. Now one doe did have her nest on the wire but I caught it in time. Another doe did nurse right away and I held her in the nestbox a couple of times until she got the hang of things. The litter that I lost, I probably could have saved if I had caught it in time. She started pulling hair after I found them so possibly would have raised them if I had warmed them up.
Now, these rabbits aren't perfect, they were smaller and have slower grow out rates. However, I've already been able to improve on this by selecting the fastest growing out of litters. That's one of the reasons I've had a fast turn overrate with my does.
What's my point? Not all rabbit's are subject to high first time losses. However, you may have to look around for the right lines.
If it were me I would rebreed the does right away and try to get litters from them since you already have them. However, keep in mind mothering skills are largely hereditary. Keeping back does from poor first time mothers, may lead to more bad first time mothers. If you can find better stock in your area (more expensive doesn't always mean better), it may be cheaper in the long run to buy new stock than to keep loosing litters due to first time screw ups. Especially, if you have a high doe turnover from trying to improve you stock in other areas.
Since I started raising rabbits about a year and 1/2 ago, I've lost 1 litter. That's 12 litters to virgin does with only 1 lost. Now one doe did have her nest on the wire but I caught it in time. Another doe did nurse right away and I held her in the nestbox a couple of times until she got the hang of things. The litter that I lost, I probably could have saved if I had caught it in time. She started pulling hair after I found them so possibly would have raised them if I had warmed them up.
Now, these rabbits aren't perfect, they were smaller and have slower grow out rates. However, I've already been able to improve on this by selecting the fastest growing out of litters. That's one of the reasons I've had a fast turn overrate with my does.
What's my point? Not all rabbit's are subject to high first time losses. However, you may have to look around for the right lines.
If it were me I would rebreed the does right away and try to get litters from them since you already have them. However, keep in mind mothering skills are largely hereditary. Keeping back does from poor first time mothers, may lead to more bad first time mothers. If you can find better stock in your area (more expensive doesn't always mean better), it may be cheaper in the long run to buy new stock than to keep loosing litters due to first time screw ups. Especially, if you have a high doe turnover from trying to improve you stock in other areas.
ohiogoatgirl
Well-known member
agreeing with a lot of the above posts. I only now have a Californian doe that I like and that is doing well for me. previous NZ, cali, nz/fg, and many other random rabbits.. all had big issues for me. being a newbie I was having a bit of a turnover selling and buying new rabbits. the new rabbits would also have issues I really didn't like.
I wish instead of doing that I would have kept a line from my original dutch pair and culled heavily for the traits I wanted. while doing that I should have been looking out for good rabbits and only buying one or two vs the about 20+ that I went through. and from those culling heavily for the traits I wanted.
But hindsight is 20/20 and all that...
anyways I am hoping that with the rabbits I have now that I will be able to start fresh and do things the right way.
I wish instead of doing that I would have kept a line from my original dutch pair and culled heavily for the traits I wanted. while doing that I should have been looking out for good rabbits and only buying one or two vs the about 20+ that I went through. and from those culling heavily for the traits I wanted.
But hindsight is 20/20 and all that...
anyways I am hoping that with the rabbits I have now that I will be able to start fresh and do things the right way.
alforddm":297gzshl said:
True, but I was speaking more about broader groups of rabbits. I believe "SEP Board" has all lops with no mention of pedigree. Not a typical meat breed and often subject to the negative sides of pet breeding or limited breeding only for replacement show stock. You can use such rabbits as meat producers just fine but you can't expect the consistent production qualities of a line of rabbits that have been bred for meat. Even buying a typical meat breed you will get better results looking for some that truly are raised for meat and culled for production. When using whatever you have on hand you have to be willing to work through the negatives until you have a working line of meat rabbits. The odds in those cases are fair to high you will lose litters, especially first litters.
I appreciate the advice folks, it's been very educational and helpful. I'll breed doe #1 tomorrow and #2 on Monday. The reason I've picked those time frames is that they correspond with my group of days off when I project out around 31 days. I'd like to be home rather than on a 12 hour duty shift. I know that it may not work out exactly like that but I figure it's best to have a plan in place.
I was thinking about this again this week as we had one doe kindle--her 5th litter, 9 kits on Monday and another doe on her first kindle had 8 kits Tuesday. The younger doe had missed the first time we bred her but that was the first time we've had that happen. And we haven't had another doe like the one that prompted my original post for this thread. So at this point if we had another kindle a litter but not feed it, I wouldn't breed her again because I know we have other does that will do better
I think it's a lot harder decision if when you're trying to get started none of your does is successful on the first litter. Then you have to decide whether to try again with what you have or to look for new rabbits, not knowing if they'll do any better.
To anyone in that position--you have my sympathy and I hope you get a litter that thrives soon. I feel like we had a lot of beginners luck and that has given us a starting point from which to build and improve our herd.
I think it's a lot harder decision if when you're trying to get started none of your does is successful on the first litter. Then you have to decide whether to try again with what you have or to look for new rabbits, not knowing if they'll do any better.
To anyone in that position--you have my sympathy and I hope you get a litter that thrives soon. I feel like we had a lot of beginners luck and that has given us a starting point from which to build and improve our herd.
Rainey":1qcakmi0 said:
:yeahthat:
skysthelimit
Well-known member
If the stuff that's been happening the last few years had happened when i started, I would have gave up. As you breed more, you see more. but you also get to fine tune.
Because I started off so strongly, when I started getting does that weren't as receptive, or missed, it wasn't very hard for me to adopt the 3 strike, or even sometimes the two strike. As I began to raise rare breeds and colors, things shifted, and I found myself keeping a doe for two years that has never produced a litter, breeding a doe 3 times and watching the litter die each time because she never had any milk or losing large amounts of kits at weaning.
What this had taught me is learning what things are a result of management, circumstances and genetics. The kit loss was clearly my fault, I've culled does in the past two years thinking it was some weakness in the line, and it may have been, but once I changed simple things, it stopped.
The milking issue, I clearly see as genetic. I kept a doe I should not have, and paid for it with resulting generations.
I don't cull does for nests on the wire anymore. Nest boxes are really an artificial situation. now I'm more inclined if the doe refuses the box, the cages all have baby saver wire, and I stuff with bedding and she can chose. I do cull does that do not make any attempt to nest, those ones have been hand in hand with the ones that don't have milk.
Because I started off so strongly, when I started getting does that weren't as receptive, or missed, it wasn't very hard for me to adopt the 3 strike, or even sometimes the two strike. As I began to raise rare breeds and colors, things shifted, and I found myself keeping a doe for two years that has never produced a litter, breeding a doe 3 times and watching the litter die each time because she never had any milk or losing large amounts of kits at weaning.
What this had taught me is learning what things are a result of management, circumstances and genetics. The kit loss was clearly my fault, I've culled does in the past two years thinking it was some weakness in the line, and it may have been, but once I changed simple things, it stopped.
The milking issue, I clearly see as genetic. I kept a doe I should not have, and paid for it with resulting generations.
I don't cull does for nests on the wire anymore. Nest boxes are really an artificial situation. now I'm more inclined if the doe refuses the box, the cages all have baby saver wire, and I stuff with bedding and she can chose. I do cull does that do not make any attempt to nest, those ones have been hand in hand with the ones that don't have milk.
