First Litter Troubles

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 28, 2015

Hi everyone,

I am so excited that Avista kindled. 7 live popples, no DOA. Since I got her Avista has been very hand shy but since kindling has let me pet her and touch her. I noticed she had kindled maybe 10 minutes afterwards. There was no placenta but she still had blood on her dewlap, side and one rear foot. When I checked the kits out and they seemed ok. Covered in nice mounds of mom's fur, on clean hay, in the nest box ; all the good things a great bunny mom should do.

NOW my concern is at least one of the kits (possibly two;squirmy little buggers) have scabbing (like a healing cat scratch) along their back leg between their privates and knee AND all off them look like they either have dried blood or poop stuck in their noses. They are making noise and breathing properly so I know that whatever it is isn't blocking too much of their airways.

I dont have pics of this issues yet but I am going to get some tomorrow. If it is poop how do I go about cleaning it out of the nostrils of not even 5 day old kits? Also two of the kits I have yet to see with full bellies but they are just as active as their siblings ... :shrug: Help?

Susie570 · Apr 28, 2015

From my understanding, more active kits are actually a sign of hungry kits. If they are at least two days old and don't have full tummies, I would consider supplemental feeding from mom if you can.

As for their noses... hmm never heard of that one. I would be afraid to get any moisture on their noses for fear of aspiration them. Does it appear to be something you could gently pick off? Maybe use just the slightest damp tissue or cloth to help loosen the debris?

MamaSheepdog · Apr 28, 2015

Sometimes kits get dust from the nestbox stuck around their nostrils. I would use a warm damp cloth to loosen it and wipe it away.

As for the scratches, you can apply some Vetericyn or antibiotic ointment on them. Kits heal really quickly so I wouldn't be too concerned about it.

You may want to trim the doe's nails. I always give mine a nail trim the day they are bred and about a week prior to delivering their litter so the nails are blunt and less likely to hurt the kits.

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 28, 2015

Thanks guys. Avista's nails a fairly short, but could use a trim. I will see if the warm washcloth helps. I had hoped to avoid nest box issues when I put screening on the bottom of the box.

For formula have you had luck with the
* canned evaporated goat milk
*egg yolk
*corn syrup

How much should I give each kit?

Susie570 · Apr 28, 2015

baefull.wolfbunnies":1pmgaobs said:
Thanks guys. Avista's nails a fairly short, but could use a trim. I will see if the warm washcloth helps. I had hoped to avoid nest box issues when I put screening on the bottom of the box.

For formula have you had luck with the
* canned evaporated goat milk
*egg yolk
*corn syrup

How much should I give each kit?

I would try lap feeding the kits from the doe before trying to give them formula. Anything they can get from the doe is going to be much better for their tummies than the formula.

MamaSheepdog · Apr 28, 2015

Good advice, Syber.

I think that formula is the same that Miss M uses, Baefull. Whether from the doe or with formula, you want their tummies to get nice and round.

Miss M uses a dropper to feed hers. At first you need to just very carefully give them a drop at time so they don't aspirate it. Once they get the hang of it, they will suck the formula out of the dropper on their own.

Miss M · Apr 28, 2015

Syberchick70":25aeoxdd said:
baefull.wolfbunnies":25aeoxdd said:

Thanks guys. Avista's nails a fairly short, but could use a trim. I will see if the warm washcloth helps. I had hoped to avoid nest box issues when I put screening on the bottom of the box.

For formula have you had luck with the
* canned evaporated goat milk
*egg yolk
*corn syrup

How much should I give each kit?

Click to expand...

I would try lap feeding the kits from the doe before trying to give them formula. Anything they can get from the doe is going to be much better for their tummies than the formula.

Absolutely!

If you try this, and they just can't seem to get much, then you might want to try the formula. Fresh parsley often helps a doe with milk production, as does BOSS, and calf manna.

MamaSheepdog":25aeoxdd said:
Whether from the doe or with formula, you want their tummies to get nice and round.

At their age, you probably won't be able to get more than two droppers into them before they flatly refuse to take more and conk out. You can get them to continue eating for a few minutes by rubbing and jostling them while you feed them. They should quickly graduate to three droppers, and move up from there. I don't know whether kits can get so much doe milk that it's harmful (singletons can sometimes end up with weight problems, but that seems to be it). I have seen some incredibly fat little kits, and they've been fine. You can overfeed with formula, though. It's not that big a concern, though, as the vast majority of kits will stop eating long before they eat a harmful amount. So just watch the tummies and don't let them get past a nice marble belly on formula.

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 28, 2015

Thank you Syber, Mama, and Miss M. Yes it is her formula I got it off one of the forum posts about it. I will try the lap feeding when I get home from work, she is getting more parsley then normal, and I upped her BOSS feed a bit. I will update you guys tonight, I should have pictures of the nose issue then. -- Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:35 pm -- Well lap feeding was a disaster. :wall: I brought Avista and the kits inside because as true to Washington weather it can't decide whether it wants to rain or just do that weird mist/sprinkle it does so well.

Avista spooked at something in the house settling causing one of the kits to detach and roll out of the towel onto the floor.

It squealed then started crying. I looked it over and could see no outward signs off trauma, then in readjusting from the spook she caused a few to detach and one fell into my hay storage box, one onto the floor and one was falling but I was quick enough to catch it. When I placed them towel and all onto the tabletop the kits tried to suckle my arm. So I know they know how to suckle. :shrug: Avista seemed too only want to move around and step on them and nip at me then feed her kits.

With only me I don't know if I can do any more towel style feedings. I had them like the drawing in the We have kits now what (http://rabbittalk.com/we-have-kits-what-now-t24591-15.html) post. However I'm fat (making my already short lap shorter) and this is a large doe. On the upside they had slightly faster tummies as I put them back into the nest box.

Marinea · Apr 28, 2015

Another option if you want to give the wee ones an extra feeding is to take out the ones with full bellies and just leave the littler ones in for a regular feeding by themselves.

*fingers crossed*

macksmom98 · Apr 28, 2015

Ours had the issues with their noses. No breathing problems and mom seemed to take care of it for them in a couple of days....

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 28, 2015

Marinea":2iop0ubo said:
Another option if you want to give the wee ones an extra feeding is to take out the ones with full bellies and just leave the littler ones in for a regular feeding by themselves.

*fingers crossed*

Except none of them have full bellies.

macksmom98":2iop0ubo said:
Ours had the issues with their noses. No breathing problems and mom seemed to take care of it for them in a couple of days....

I went through and picked then off as Mom had yet to clean them off.

Susie570 · Apr 28, 2015

Poor babies! That sounds rough on all of you.

I'm glad their tummies got some milk, maybe she will continue to feed them? Check on them in the morning.

If they don't have plump bellies in the morning, it may be time to try formula. If you do, put them back with mom afterward. She should continue to try feeding them and maybe her milk will catch up so you can stop the formula. Do you have anyone to help you?

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 29, 2015

No. No neighbors raise rabbits, and hubby is allergic to their dander (10 minutes near the rabbits equals at least an hour of itchy eyes/throat with runny nose and watery eyes.) Most of my family doesn't agree with my plans once they are grown so can't ask them. My closest rabbit raiser friend lives about an hour south (one way).

MamaSheepdog · Apr 29, 2015

Maybe try putting her in the nestbox and then covering it with a towel. Maybe she is nervous. Being in an enclosed dark space with the kits may cause her to relax and let down her milk.

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 29, 2015

Here's the pic of what the gunk in the kits noses looked like. They were hard, and I was able to get them off. -- Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:15 am -- So I checked on the kits this morning about an hour earlier then normal and 4 of them had nearly full bellies 1 was semi full and 2 had empty bellies. I think I will need to do some supplemental feeding but not full on feeding.

Susie570 · Apr 29, 2015

I'm glad you were able to get their noses cleared... you know, that could be a big part of why they were having trouble nursing.

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 30, 2015

Well, saw Avista rearranging her nestbox and thought it cute until horror of horrors I saw her lift a kit by the leg and put it on the wire if her hutch. I ran to put on shoes and frantically looked for my keys to go outside. When I got out to her hutch the kit on the wire was chilled but some time in my bra warmed him up.

She was grabbing mouthfulls of fur, taking it out of the nest compacting it using the floor of the hutch jumping back in the nest and putting it back and grabbing anything mouthfull. In doing so causing the kits to roll around, stepping on them, causing them to squeal. I hurriedly took the box out and checked the kits. All have full tummies but I could only see 6. Down at the very bottom of their pile I found the 7th. Cold, not moving, pink nails, nevertheless I put the nestbox back in the hutch and tried to warn up the kit first in my bra and then using the bathroom sink. No go, the kit was dead. He is now in the ground next to DaBunnah.

During this time Avista was still doing whatever she was intent on doing and after the burial I checked on the other kits. They were scattered around the nest box and three of the six of them were chilled but not yet dead so I took all of them out. They are sitting on my lap in a warm towel while their mom is doing whatever it is she is intent on doing. I'm worried about replacing the kits.

Susie570 · Apr 30, 2015

What on earth?!? Hopefully it will be safe to put them back when she's finished doing whatever she's doing!

baefull.wolfbunnies · Apr 30, 2015

Honestly it looks like she is building another nest using the sane materials

Susie570 · Apr 30, 2015

baefull.wolfbunnies":6y3625ng said:
Honestly it looks like she is building another nest using the sane materials

Maybe just rearranging it?? :/

First Litter Troubles

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