Why CAN'T I feed fruits?

[dayna]

I keep hearing to not feed your rabbits fruit.

I also hear not to feed greens to young rabbits. Well mine are raised almost 100% on fresh green forage from birth. So far I've had NO problems. Very very healthy babies. So far I've raised 25 baby buns on almost 100% forage and everyone has been perfect.

So I have this 3 acre guava orchard. I feed the guavas to my goats, sheep, parrots, and chickens.

I've started giving each rabbit a guava everyday and they really enjoy them! I also feed the branches with leaves on it and they enjoy that a lot too.

So whats the basis for not feeding fruit? Guava is pretty high in protein so it seems like it would be a decent food.

And Avacados, I know they are not safe for goats or parrots so I assume not for rabbits either? For the same reason? Because I have jungle avacados and I'm 1/3 to 1/4 way through picking them and I picked 180 so far! I've been giving them away. It would be nice to use it as livestock feed but I figure it's probably NOT safe.

Nutritional data for guavas:

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fru ... ces/1927/2

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I think the thing against fruit and greens is because going suddenly from pellets and hay to fruits and greens can cause diarrhea...but if they grow up on it then it should be just fine!!! I'd say go for it...your rabbits will be the ones to tell you if they have a problem.

 

[Southbound_SF]

As I understand it, the reason fruits are discouraged is that they are very high in sugar, too high for a balanced rabbit diet. No problem as treats, but not great as a major component of diet.

Then again, that's just what They Say. Keep a close eye on the buns for potential problems, keep feeding them, and let us know how it goes! What with the varied diet you give them, it might be a fine addition.


Sb

 

[akane]

You can. They just aren't healthy and can lead to stomach upset so you have to be careful. My mom came home with 4, 5g buckets of golfball sized regular type apples off old trees. I throw 3 or 4 to a colony of 6-8 rabbits every other day and they argue over them. They end up getting a pretty even amount of slightly less than 1 apple. Then I throw about 10 to the horses.

 

[MaggieJ]

Rabbits already accustomed to large amounts of forage - especially from the beginning - can likely handle more fruit than rabbits raised on pellets.

I looked at the link and used the drop down menu at the top to display the data for one guava. 37 calories and 5 grams of sugar... not as bad as some fruits. If the rabbits show no signs of diarrhea or digestive upsets, I don't think feeding one guava several times a week would hurt.

In the wild, rabbits eat fruit quite happily when it comes their way: windfall apples and pears, berries, probably grapes. But I do notice that they generally only eat a small amount of apple at a time and then move on to other plants.

My understanding is that avocadoes are toxic to rabbits, so I would not feed them to the buns.

There are numerous things you can make with guavas if you have a surplus. Besides jams, jellies and chutneys, there is a fruit leather that West Indians call guava cheese. You might want to google guava recipes.
http://www.uncommoncaribbean.com/2010/1 ... va-cheese/

 

[trinityoaks]

I give fruit (mainly apples) to all my buns, but only as an occasional treat. They have a lot of sugar (as do carrots). If you want to start feeding fruit, I would start with one or two small pieces perhaps once a week, and work up from there.

 

[dayna]

HOLY cow! I've never heard of this sticky surgery guava dish. lol I'm not a huge fan of guavas... Funny how I ended up with an orchard of them! lol<br /><br />__________ Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:00 pm __________<br /><br />

I give fruit (mainly apples) to all my buns, but only as an occasional treat. They have a lot of sugar (as do carrots). If you want to start feeding fruit, I would start with one or two small pieces perhaps once a week, and work up from there.

Well I've been feeding them everyday and so far no problem.

 

[Secuono]

Fruit tends to be high in sugars, which isn't really good for anyone. A little here and there is fine.
A rabbit meanders and eats little bits of this and that while always on the move.
They don't just stay in one little area until all is eaten. That is all human created and unnatural and possibly unhealthy.

If you want proof of this, just have a free ranging rabbit. He will prove it.

 

[dayna]

I have free ranging rabbits to some extent. They do eat some of the guava and nibble on grass, then branches, etc. I can see that. I've never had a rabbit sit down and eat a WHOLE guava in one sitting. I just mean that I toss one in there and by the end of the day it's gone.

 

[Secuono]

Generalizing.
I tossed whole corn plants to my herd of GPs, they ate it all. No issues. They also got 5# mixed or one type of green for a day or two. Still got some pellets to make sure everything is included.
Like with dog food, you can feed crappy feeds, as long as it's mixed or balanced with better food.
Seems to be 1-3mo mix of foods to be healthy[dogs].

I don't think I would personally feed fruits to my rabbits or any critter as a more solid diet.
My hogs get fruits and veggies more so when they are available, try to freeze some to keep pellets down. They also get pasture, which helps cut the need for pellets.

It's why we are planting fruit trees and have a veggie garden, to supplement other foods to create a balanced and as natural diet as I can.

 

[dayna]

I've been growing weeds in pots and sticking them in the cages of the caged buns and that seems to supplement pretty good.

I can grow corn here REALLY easily, like a weed. Could I toss whole stalks into the bun runs?

 

[Kyle@theWintertime]

I used to when I had mutts in the basement. I'd grab a cornstalk from my yard, corn on it and all, and just toss the whole thing into the colony setup I had. They loved it and unlike some of the other greens I'd tried, it didn't seem to upset their systems much.

 

[hoodat]

My rabbits love guavas but I've noticed they prefer them on the green side rather than ripe. Less sugar at that stage also.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think the prohibition against feeding a lot of fruit and high sugar root vegetables probably comes from the experiences of those that feed greens/fruit/vegis as a supplement as opposed to the major components of the diet.

I would guess that as long as you are feeding a large variety of plants, the rabbits will likely browse on the offerings in a more natural manner and be less likely to gorge on any one item.

Still, I would probably limit the fruits to 10-15% of the fresh foods offered, and see how they do.

P.S. Send me some of those avocados, will ya???

P.S.S. I believe it is the avocado peel that is toxic, not the actual "meat" of the fruit- but you should research that further before risking your parrots or rabbits.

 

[Miss M]

Persin is a fungicidal toxin present in the avocado. It is generally harmless to humans, but when consumed by domestic animals in large quantities it is dangerous.

Persin is an oil-soluble compound structurally similar to a fatty acid, and it leaches into the body of the fruit from the pits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persin

Ingestion of avocado (Persea americana) has been associated with myocardial necrosis in mammals and birds and with sterile mastitis in lactating mammals. Cattle, goats, horses, mice, rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, sheep, budgerigars, canaries, cockatiels, ostriches, chickens, turkeys, and fish are susceptible.

...Ingestion of fruit, leaves, stems, and seeds of avocado has been associated with toxicosis in animals; leaves are the most toxic part. The Guatemalan varieties of avocado have been most commonly associated with toxicosis. http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/toxicol ... =&sc=&alt=

Toxic Principles: Toxic to horses, cattle, goats, and birds. Avocado leaves, fruit, seeds and bark may contain a toxic principle known as persin. The Guatemalan variety, a common one found in stores, appears to be the most problematic. Other varieties of avocado can have different degrees of toxic potential.

Clinical Signs: Birds, rabbits, and some large animals are especially sensitive to avocados, as they can have respiratory distress, congestion, fluid accumulation around the heart, and even death from consuming avocado. http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-po ... ts/avocado

The leaves, bark, seeds, skin and pits of avocados contain a natural, oil-soluble fungicide called persin. Persin is not harmful to humans and is even being investigated as a treatment for breast cancer, as it has been shown in laboratory studies to cause apoptosis (programmed cell death) of breast cancer cells.

...persin is toxic to birds (e.g. canaries, parakeets, cockatiels and large parrots), rabbits, horses and ruminants (e.g.cattle, sheep, goats) and so no part of the avocado should be fed to these species.

Signs of persin poisoning in birds include:
• Inability to perch
• Difficulty breathing
• Fluid around the heart and lungs
• Liver and kidney failure
• Death

Signs of toxicity in rabbits include:
• Inflammation of the mammary glands
• Decreased milk production
• Difficulty breathing
• Fluid around heart
• Heart rhythm problems
• Death

In ruminants, the first sign of persin toxicity is often sudden death. http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tum ... -dogs-cats

It would seem from all this that the fruit might not initially contain persin, but that it leaches the toxin from the pit, so the flesh ends up with it anyway. Rabbits are apparently among the animals most susceptible to persin, and so should not be fed any part of the avocado tree, even the flesh of the fruit.

Even though your avocados wouldn't be the more problematic Guatemalan avocados, they all contain the toxin in one concentration or another. There is apparently no safe way to feed avocado to rabbits or birds.

I'll split your leftover avocados with MSD!

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Very interesting, Miss M!

I knew avocado was unsafe for birds from when I worked in a pet store that specialized in large birds... but when we first got our chickens, there was an incident where we put some leftover prepared (peeled) avocado into the chicken bucket. It had been a long time since my pet store days, so I had forgotten the prohibition against avocado. Anyhow, the next day I found a dead hen in the chicken run, and then the lightbulb went off!

Since we had probably put about a cup of chunked and pureed avocado into their bucket, I assumed a small amount of peel must have been in there, and that was the cause, otherwise more of them should have been dead. :?

I had no idea what toxin was responsible, and was unaware that it was a danger to other critters as well.

 

[Miss M]

What's really amazing is that you will see all over the place that it is toxic to dogs and cats... but it seems that isn't actually so. The main danger to them is obstruction from the pit. Dogs will often scarf them up practically as they hit the ground, and eat enough of them to actually get fat. :shock:

 

[akane]

We never had any trouble using frozen avocado meat as treats to our sugar gliders. We were very careful to get all the peel and scrape off that pit covering that would come off on to the side touching the pit.

 

[ramblingrabbit]

Dayna, I've been feeding some bananas recently myself--as part of a daily serving of "energy foods" (for lack of a better categorization) which also includes root vegetables and sometimes sugarcane stalk (all from the farm). I slice the whole banana into small pieces and everyone gets a couple, more for the growouts or prego does, less for the other breeders, that sort of thing. I am harvesting bananas weekly from our 1+ acre of patches, so sparing a banana now and then as a supplement is easy for us and makes lots of sense. I don't even peel them, I just slice and let them eat around the peel. Per general rabbit-feeding cautions, I only feed fruits ripe or slightly underripe, never fermented, rotten, dirty, etc (those ones the chickens or ducks can eat). I read about feeding bananas at http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/T0554E/T0554E16.htm (and elsewhere).

IMHO (and adimitedly so far limited experience) there is nothing inherently wrong with incorporating a little fruit into the diet-- especially, I feel, if it helps one to be more sustainable. The "Don't feed fruits" thing is, I believe a classic case of a nuanced idea involving certain precautions in certain circumstances being turned into a blanket prohibition as the message gets dumbed down through countless repetitions. You see it all the time in life!

As I once shared in an earlier post, it took me a while to figure out that I wasn't going to kill my kits by letting them eat greens, as the breeder I purchased my rabbits from told me quite explicitly!

Good luck with your guava-grinding bunnies.

__________ Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:26 pm __________

The family dog we had as kids ate windfall avos all the time in the orchard. The cats still do. I used to feed them to the chickens all the time before (and after) I was told they were poisonous. They pick around the pits all on their own. I wouldn't give any to the rabbits though--sensitivity to the toxin seems to vary a lot among different animals and I wouldn't take the chance unless I could find out more about it's effect on rabbits specifically.

 

[Miss M]

I and others on RT generally encourage people to severely limit fruits at first, and to increase portions very slowly, to give the rabbits' digestive systems time to adjust... however, to still limit the amount they are given, because of the sugar content. Many a rabbit has gotten diarrhea from too much in the way of sugary foods, and that is the main reason they can be detrimental in large amounts. Too much in the way of sugar may also lessen the amount of good nutrition a rabbit takes in.

I switched my rabbits to a locally-produced horse feed for a while. On the whole, they were doing alright... no diarrhea even with the increased sugar from molasses and corn. But after about 6 months, I evaluated their condition thoroughly. My rabbits were slowly getting fat. And in spite of the fact that they usually had food left over, they were always hungry when I brought food around.

So they were making it on the feed, but the slightly lower protein level and much higher sugar level made it so that they weren't getting enough nutrients, yet were getting fat.

It seems to me... this is my theory only, not carved in stone... that feeding too much fruit would have similar effects. It would lower the rabbit's intake of protein and other nutrients, while increasing its intake of sugar significantly. There is nutritional value in fruits, but the sugar level makes it so I wouldn't want to feed a lot of it. This would go for carrots, as well, and probably a couple other vegetables.

At any rate, my $.02.