What genes would cause these markings?

[Windermere]

This doe has me puzzled. She's about 7 months old, a meat mutt. Got her because I was fascinated by her looks! So, what genes would cause her to have such odd markings?






If it helps, this is her sister:

 

[Naelin]

Her colours make me think black sallander? potentially broken based on her sister and how her marking end quite abruptly. I'm not experienced with that colour to be really sure.
If that is it, she would be <aaB_chd_D_eeEnen> (or enen for solid)
The sister is a broken tort, <aaB_C_D_eeEnen>, it is essentially the same without the chinchilla gene, so it adds up.

 

[Windermere]

Hmmm, hadn't thought about the DARK Chin gene! She's going to be fun to play around with breeding.

I'm not convinced about broken though. I think her sister looks more like she has a Dutch gene, from my research. But, I'm completely new to rabbit genetics so don't yet know much past what I've read.

 

[Preitler]

The sister looks like a broken, black tort to me? or am i completly off there?
Then I would assume that doe is a torted something , no idea what.

I had rabbits with a quite similiar broken pattern.

 

[Windermere]

This is the table I was basing my Dutch assumption on, from this publication:

Fig. 16.6. Grades of Dutch white spotting. (Robinson, R. 1978. Colour Inheritance in Small Livestock,
Fur and Feather, Idle, Bradford, UK. Courtesy of Fur and Feather)

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

I don't know about her but the sister definitely looks like a booted broken, not a badly marked dutch.
Booted broken just means broken but heavy on the color to white ratio.

 

[Windermere]

Consensus seems to be Broken, so I will bow to the wisdom of those with more experience than me in this.

I plan on breeding the first doe to a Sable buck, as soon as it's warm enough. So probably by mid-March for a mid-April birth.

Ugh, I hate loosing so much breeding time because of Winter.

 

[reh]

Thats the one for English spotted rabbits:

also look at http://rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entries/En.en_Du-/1.html for the blanked patterned ones.

 

[Windermere]

Thats the one for English spotted rabbits:
View attachment 45343
also look at http://rabbitcolors.info/int/en/entries/En.en_Du-/1.html for the blanked patterned ones.

Thanks!

 

[Mckatie]

The top doe also looks Sable point. She has the markings and her body coat looks like it's shaded. Sable and sallander are very similar. Her facial marking does look a little clean, however, mine changed as they aged.

 

[Windermere]

The top doe also looks Sable point. She has the markings and her body coat looks like it's shaded. Sable and sallander are very similar. Her facial marking does look a little clean, however, mine changed as they aged.

Yeah, she does look sable to me, and I'm sure there's Himmy in there from the slightly darker fur on her back (it IS winter here, so more pronounced shading in the 'cool' areas). What had me wondering was more the patterning of her facial markings. She's had them since I got her at 8 weeks old, and was one of the reasons I got her as they were not anything I'd seen on a Himmy before. Like those 'eyebrow' lines and the two dots on the cheeks, very symmetrical and unlike what you would find in a Broken.

 

[Alaska Satin]

Yeah, she does look sable to me, and I'm sure there's Himmy in there from the slightly darker fur on her back (it IS winter here, so more pronounced shading in the 'cool' areas). What had me wondering was more the patterning of her facial markings. She's had them since I got her at 8 weeks old, and was one of the reasons I got her as they were not anything I'd seen on a Himmy before. Like those 'eyebrow' lines and the two dots on the cheeks, very symmetrical and unlike what you would find in a Broken.

She is not himi which would produce pink eyes. Both himi <c(h)> and sable <c(chl)> are temperature-sensitive alleles, so you can get a lot of variation in markings and intensities of colors in each; one of the traits of both is that they tend to change over time and season. In fact I quit raising Siamese Satins (which are non-extension sables aka sable points) because I never had one with clean color that lasted more than a month or two, so very frustrating for show purposes. The weird facial markings in my siamese Satins were very similar to the weird facial markings I see in my Cals in wintertime (below).

Below is a sable point Holland Lop from https://hickoryridgehollands.com/holland-lop-color-guide (which, but the way, is an outstanding pictorial resource for normal fur coat colors)


I'd feel confident in calling your doe a sable point <aaB_c(chl)_D-ee>. Her color looks too sepia to be sallander (non-extension chin <aaB_c(chd)_D_ee>), though the two can produce very similar phenotypes. The color over her back is also variable like a sable point rather than having what looks like markings on her side as you'd normally see in a sallander. If she is actually also broken, that could cover up some of that patterning, but I've personally never seen or heard of a broken that did not have white feet, so I'm doubtful that she is broken.

I agree with the other posters about your tort doe (non-extension self black <aaB_C_D_ee>); she looks like a broken <Enen> to me, closer to the booted end of that spectrum. In my experience, the Dutch allele tends to leave some white in the nose area (though it's not a 100% thing).