What do you call this

[tm_bunnyloft]

You may likely get a giant angora.

 

[phillinley]

Who knows. Maybe I'll get a COD one day too.

Well any ways......

I picked up our first chocolate silver foxes last weekend from the CoD holder Meara Collins. The entire process started 17 years ago when she was a little kid she thought it'd be cool to combine a Silver Fox with a satin, and after years of tweaking as she grew up, she turned it into an awesome variety within the Silver Fox breed with only two presentations remaining. So if you put your time and energy into it (and people think it looks cool), years down the road you might be at the ARBA national convention with some giant lion heads at presentation. It's always possible.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Actually lionheads arose from a gene mutation... the first significant mutation since the Rex/Satin fur mutations. Its been up to the cod holders to actually make a standard that applies to the whole rabbit that everyone can breed to. And yes all this "experimenting' has done a fair amount of harm whether by accident or not.The offspring of such crosses do tend to range far and wide and in the early days anything was being bred to a Lionhead just to make more, seeing as how they were going for hundreds each, so yes quite a "few" people jumped on that bandwagon at the time. This is exactly why there has been a lot of problems keeping to the standard and why the COD did change hands and there even has been a new standard written. What looks like a Lionhead and even has a 3 generation Ped. may not actually be all that pure! Hence there have been a lot of surprises cropping up continually.Now unfortunately the Petshops have clued in to their existence and are demanding them from their suppliers.... so sure its fun and all to experiment, but you need to keep what you produce, because even if you are honest, the next person and the one that buys off the next and so on, no one knows!Next thing a COD holder gets what they think appears to be a purebred and then gets nothing but problems!!How is that the COD's fault? Now having said that, I am pretty sure I saw a picture, maybe on HT forums of a Flemmie cross that actually had a mohawk!

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

Do you really believe that every person who breeds a cross should keep every single baby they produce? Or is that just for Lionhead rabbits? So then people should NOT sell their culls? In that case the only one who should even have lionheads should be the original producer. And that person should never have sold a single lionhead, nor should anyone else who is breeding them now. Because by your theory they are a mutt that is messing up the ND lines. For that matter there should be a hole lot less breeds out there and no need for COD's. The COD not getting approved is not my fault or anyone elses but the COD holders themselves.

 

[AnnClaire]

Demamma, that has got to be the silliest looking lop I have ever seen! It looks absolutely adorable (in a very silly way) And, I bet a sport like that would really appeal to the pet market!!!

Personally, I see no problem with breeding sports like these. Many pet owners are looking for a unique pet and this can be a lucreative niche market. It certainly doesn't harm the pedigreed breeds as long as they are sold as what they are ... crossbreed sports.

Also mentioned, new breeds are developed by crossing existing breeds and culling for the qualities to be enhanced in the new breed. So, breeding a large lionhead breed is not a bad goal for someone. It will take decades of dedication, but is entirely do-able.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

That's what I was thinking. And since we breed meat mutts already, allot of our culls can go to freezer camp. I already have a doe and picking up a buck tomorrow. Though I will be looking for a good dm lionhead buck to purchase as well. I am starting with black/chinchilla. But would like to try fawn as well.

 

[Demamma]

I bet I would get some real funny meat mutts if I crossed my daughters lop flop with a NZ. We also have a tan lop flop that looks real comical too. Problem is might be to hard to butcher them. too individual. I see no problem with crosses as long as the pet person knows. A good breeder is going to buy quality. A rabbit judge I talked to where I got some of my rabbits talked about this. He said a Lionhead's genes are dominant so whatever they are bred to will show up with lionhead traits. I have quite a assortment of rabbits here. My oldest son recently bred his English Lop to his NZ. He wants to keep one of the kits for a pet. As a teen my favorite doe was a NZ lop mix named love bunny. She was a very sweet doe. After son picks the one he wants we will eat the rest unless someone wants a mutt pet. What is a double mane?

 

[3mina]

Single mane lionheads don't keep there mane after molting out their juvenile coat, double manes do

 

[Bad Habit]

Double Mane(or DM) is just a lionhead that has 2 copies of the mane gene. It may not keep the mane after molting, or have any better mane than a single mane.

A lionhead x lop cross is actually generally called a lionlop. I'm not a fan of lops at all, though, lol.

 

[ZRabbits]

Demamma,

A Double Mane, or DM, is a mutated gene that gives a rabbit wool fur on certain part of their bodies. Your daughter's sweet rabbit has it on the top of her head. Just like the Flemishes posted, have it on their faces. The Breeders that I have joined with have created, with the help of the mixture of Netherland, a Mane which encircles the neck and also the skirt (lower sides to rump), which some thought made the Lion head look sloppy. That has been the crux of the whole Lion head acceptance into the ARBA. Who liked the Single Mane gene, and who liked the Double Mane gene on the Netherland Dwarf.

The DM gene is very strong. Rabbits with only a Single Mane gene may have long whispy hair, like your daughter's lop, or will sometimes loose that wool when they reach an adult. Or hold it with a little hair on the side of the face and on top of the head. Cute, but hardly a real mane. Just my opinion.

With getting any new breed accepted you have to show the full generation carries the same type. Grandfather, Father, Son, for example. You probably already know this from talking to your Rabbit Judge friend. The singles were nice looking at Jr's., but lost it at adults. The DM's, labeled "dust bunnies", or "uglies" at Jr. status, held that mane and skirt at Sr. My Neville has not lost anything. My Ugly has turned into a Beautiful Lion.

There has been a great turn for the Lion heads and their acceptance status. The ARBA officials and those working hard to get this rabbit established have agreed with the Skirt length at Jr. So that the Jr, who turn into those awesome Sr. have a shot. That's because of the last COD try.

I don't see how this DM gene would ever hurt the ND, as the ND has already been established as a True Breed. The mixture, as all who have posted is a good thing to try, has led to the Lion Head that I see today. And many others as well. Exceptionally beautiful unique rabbits in my opinion.

If you want to experiment and play with the DM gene, my suggestion is that you get a Quality Buck or Doe that has that DM gene for generations. Though the DM gene is passed and every kit will have a single gene (bred to another without it), you would need to then rebreed those kits back to the original DM holder. This brings on the more wool which the rabbit will hold onto into adult hood. My Luna and Neville are from 3 generations of DM gene, so I know the kits, and I've seen the nekked spots of a DM, will have that strong Wool gene.

If you want to sell your DM rabbits, mixed with whatever you choose, as pets, you would have to make sure that the Mane will stay into adulthood. Pet owners, I would think, would be more upset that their rabbit stopped looking like the one they bought as a 8 or 12 week bun.

Wishing you luck. Hope some of this helps you understand the DM gene. A unique mutation.

Karen

 

[Demamma]

Thank you Karen and Bad Habit for the explanation. Now I am wondering if daughters flop will lose some of its hair. He has long hair in a skirt and along the face so it looks like sideburns. It is more noticeable on son's brown flop. They are quite interesting pets but not my cup of tea for breeding.

 

[tm_bunnyloft]

Thank you for the explanation. I really appreciate the information. I am picking up a buck today and I will see what happens with the cross but I plan to buy different bunnies for it. I want orange rabbits I believe.

We will have a completely enclosed yard when we move and thought it would be fun to have a couple of large yard bunnies. (they will go back to cages at night for safety).

I am not so sure that I even intend to sell any of the offspring. More than likely we will not.

 

[Stormy]

OMG I want the black one with the grey beard!! that is friggin cute!!

 

[andyva]

If I were to find a male lionhead, I would be hard pressed not to breed it to our Belgian doe. I think we could get..........scrawny, tawny, lionheads!

(That would probably lose their mane as adults and be unsuitable to sell for pets without full disclosure.)

 

[Stormy]

@Andyva - I'm not sure if that is cute, or awkward looking!! Why would the mane fall out?