What color is he?

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Any ideas what color he could be? I forget what the breeder said but she wasn't entirely sure. He has consistent coloring and when you blow in his fur it's lighter underneath. But it's sorta orange-y near the top. Bred him to a vienna marked black torteiseshell and the kits are blue but in areas you can see orange. But that could be from the mom so idk.

 

[Nyctra]

The patern of his orange makes me think tort. A super dark tort. From photos of hollands I've seen, they can have a tendency to have very little orange. And I believe a lighter undercoat is normal for all colors?

(Blue tort from http://www.rebeccasrabbitry.com/hollandlopcolorguide.html )

 

[Sagebrush]

That is a beautiful opal looking bun.

 

[Zass]

It's really interesting, can we get a pic with the face in different lighting?

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

That is a beautiful opal looking bun.

You're saying my buck is opal? I don't believe so. His ring color (when you blow in the fur, not exactly sure what it's called) is blue on top, a small light orange ring at the top, and then it's just white. Opals have blue, fawn, then blue again. On him it's just a small tint of orange.

Blue tort does look more like it. But he'd be pretty dark.

I've got him bred to a vienna marked black tort doe, and another whose either a light Siamese or something else (I forget)
Suppose we'll see, see how the kits turn out opcorn:

As for pic photo, here's one.

 

[Nyctra]

Yeah, that definitely looks like a blue tort to me.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Hmm, so new question:

If bred to a vienna marked black tort, what could the kits be?

 

[Zass]

I also think he's a blue tort. It can look really different in longer coated breeds.

Where is the pic of the kits ???

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

I can get newer pics in the morning. They're so wriggly. But I think they're gonna be blue tort (mom is vienna so that's why they've got white patches I assume). They started off blue but you can see the orange coming in now. They're 5 days old now.

Also have another doe due soon. Had to steal some of her fur today for these guys' nest - only 2 of them and they seemed to need some more. it came out very easy (just took a bit off from her knee-area)

 

[Dood]

Hmm, so new question:

If bred to a vienna marked black tort, what could the kits be?

Blue tort X black tort = 100% torts

Likely black or if the doe carries blue you should get 25% 50% blue torts.

You could get sable points (shaded torts ) or REW or himi if the parents carry those recessives and a multitude of other torted possibilities

As the doe is Vienna marked 50% of the kits should get the Vienna gene but might not have the white markers and be secret carriers

 

[alforddm]

If the sire is blue tort and the doe is a black tort that carries blue you will 50% blue torts not 25%. 25% would be if both were carriers.

 

[Celice]

this looks like a sable. seems WAY to dark for a tort...

how old?

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Hmm, so new question:

If bred to a vienna marked black tort, what could the kits be?

Blue tort X black tort = 100% torts

Likely black or if the doe carries blue you should get 25% 50% blue torts.

You could get sable points (shaded torts ) or REW or himi if the parents carry those recessives and a multitude of other torted possibilities

As the doe is Vienna marked 50% of the kits should get the Vienna gene but might not have the white markers and be secret carriers

Well on this litter I'm thinking they're both vienna marked blue torts, though it is early. They've both got white marks anyways

this looks like a sable. seems WAY to dark for a tort...

how old?

The buck? Er. Couple months. 8 I think? Ill find his pedigree.

 

[Nyctra]

this looks like a sable. seems WAY to dark for a tort...

I doubt sable. Dilute sables have a paler creamier body color, as well as a slightly different pattern. He follows tort pattern and tort color. I believe he's just very dark. :shock:

edit; Some examples of sables/seal. They don't have the quite the same cheek pattern and flanks.
Photos from here: http://www.dwarfsrus.com/hollandlopphotogallery.htm
Black seal:

Black sable:

Blue sable:

 

[Dood]

He is unusually dark for a blue tort and I can see where Celice sees sable but maybe he is a blue seal :roll: = aa B_ cchlcchl dd E_ :shrug:

What colours are on his pedigree?

Do you have any REW, himilayans or confirmed sables to breed him to ?

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

No, the only does I have are the 2 holland lops. One is the vienna marked black tort, and the other is either a dark sable point or light Siamese sable (vienna marked). She is also bred with him

I could probably pretty easily find a himi or REW to breed him to.

 

[Dood]

Oooh - the sable will do if he is a tort then you will get more torts, if he is a sable you wont get any torts and only sables ( assuming the litter size isn't too small :mrgreen: )

Sable kits go through a shimmery / silvery stage from 5 to 24 days old - torts dont

 

[Celice]

Oooh - the sable will do if he is a tort then you will get more torts, if he is a sable you wont get any torts and only sables ( assuming the litter size isn't too small :mrgreen: )

Sable kits go through a shimmery / silvery stage from 5 to 24 days old - torts dont

that what looks like what's happaning to this buck. Sables are weird like that. I have a blue sable that was completely blue then turned sable once she got older.

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Oh! I found his pedigree, if that's helpful.

His dam was a chestnut agouti, & his sire was a Martin.

His great dam - on his moms side - was black, and his great sire was BEW. His other great dam (fathers side) was orange, and his other great sire was broken orange.

His GG sire was vienna marked black, & GG dam was BEW. His other GG sire lynx / fawn, & GG dam was black - moms side

His other GG sire was BEW, & GG dam was broke blue. And his last GG sire as blue otter, & GG dam was opal. - dads side

 

[Dood]

If his father was a sable Martin and not a silver marten then him being a blue sable or Seal is a not out of the question but I must say that there are a lot of odd colour breeding choices in his pedigree and quite a few unexpected colours :shock: unfortunately it is not much help because it doesn't rule anything out and pretty much every colour is a possibility :shrug: