Vaccinations

[lissapell]

I know we have discussed in bits the possibility of a vaccine but I am interested in input of would you honestly use it.

If there was a vaccine available for Pasturella would you vaccinate your herd? I am looking for honest pros and cons. I have been speaking with a vet tech with over a decades worth of experience who is about to test vaccinate her herd. If you decided to vaccinate....would you vaccinate only the stock you are keeping or would you vaccinate the kits before sending them to a new home? What about purchasing new kits? If they are vaccinated would you be less likely to purchase them? Or rabbits as a food source....would you want rabbits vaccinated is they are a food source? Would you, for personal consumption, vaccinate your breed stock but then eat all the kits unvaccinated?

 

[faiththequeen]

My buns are show rabbits and not for food. I think if there was a vaccine for Pasturella that really worked I would probably use it. Pasturella sucks!!! I don't know about anything else. But, if I raised meat rabbits, I don't think I would.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I believe that Pasteurella is much like bordetella in dogs, in that there are many strains, so the vaccine would not be effective against all of them. Indeed, dogs are exposed to bordetella all the time, and the vaccine's efficacy has been called into question;

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2012/03/2 ... h-vaccine/

My opinion is that many vaccines have unpredictable effects on the immune system because most are injected whether or not the infections they are for are contracted in that way. An intranasal version would make the most sense to me, since Pasteurella is usually contracted nasally- although I have heard that it can also be transmitted via wounds.

Since it is a commonly held belief that all rabbits have been exposed to Pasteurella, and the theory behind vaccines is to introduce a small enough dose of the virus (live or killed) to stimulate immunity, vaccinating them would not help in any way, and might actually trigger the disease. I saw this with the bordetella vaccine when I managed a dog kennel- a healthy dog walks in, is required to get the vaccine, is stressed by being in a kennel environment, and within days is coughing.

I think that I will continue to breed for a strong immune system, and terminally cull for low disease resistance.

Please keep us updated on the experiment, and find out if the vaccine is live or killed. It will be interesting to see if the stress to the immune system of the injections themselves will trigger symptoms, especially if the vaccine is a killed version.

 

[Dood]

If there was a vaccine available for Pasturella would you vaccinate your herd?

It depends on effectiveness of the vaccine and cost. In Canada it is nearly impossible to purchase vaccine and must be done by a veterinarian.

If you decided to vaccinate....would you vaccinate only the stock you are keeping or would you vaccinate the kits before sending them to a new home?

I have not had any pasturella so my quarantine and bio security measures are working. I may not vaccinate my stock at all but would likely vaccinate show rabbits. I would offer vaccination to buyers but would not automatically vaccinate sale rabbits..

What about purchasing new kits? If they are vaccinated would you be less likely to purchase them?

I would be more willing but would still use my regular quarantine protocol in case they are carriers.

Or rabbits as a food source....would you want rabbits vaccinated is they are a food source?

No, rabbits are slaughtered by 10 weeks old and usually from closed barns. I would not expect vaccination to be necessary in fryers. Also, because pasturella affectes dogs and cats and most of my sales are for raw diet I would not use a vaccinated rabbit for raw pet food but would eat it cooked.

Would you, for personal consumption, vaccinate your breed stock but then eat all the kits unvaccinated?

Yes, if the concerns mentioned above are addressed.

 

[rawfeeder]

I would not vaccinate, and it would defiantly put me off buying stock from a breeder that does. Even if I wasn't raising meat rabbits for raw dog food, it just doesn't appeal to me. Maybe I'm old fashioned... but I'd rather have rabbits from people that cull hard for health and breed a strain that are resistant, rather than relying on a vaccine to protect against it. Even if the shot did work, it might be hiding a naturally weak immune system that will show under stress or in a situation where the shot was not available to that rabbit.

I don't vaccinate my dogs either. Instead I do titer tests (blood work) at random, and all have showed natural immunity despite no shots.

 

[skysthelimit]

I don't vaccinate my dogs either, except the required rabies, and only once. I've had puppies become ill and die shortly after being vaccinated.

 

[mystang89]

To be honest that all depends on what is used in the vaccine firstly. Secondly, even if everything checked out with the ingredients I don't think I would use it as, even with human vaccines, there isn't a 100% safety rate. They say that the "herd effect" is where the vaccines really shine but even when you have everyone together who is vaccinated against something there are still outbreaks. Different strains come up etc. If I had many more rabbits and much more time I would just breed for a stronger immune system.

 

[MaggieJ]

I have a small closed rabbitry to put meat on the table. I would not vaccinate my rabbits. There may be a strain of pasteurella in my rabbits - they say most rabbits carry it - but I can't see that vaccination is the answer. I prefer to cull any that exhibit signs of a poor immune system. The majority are very healthy.

 

[Miss M]

If I were raising for show, I might consider it, since so many animals are brought to shows sick, and so many healthy animals have contracted illnesses at shows.

Other than that... I'd just rather cull for strong immune systems, since I raise meat buns.

 

[caroline]

I think that I will continue to breed for a strong immune system, and terminally cull for low disease resistance.

Ditto

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I think that I will continue to breed for a strong immune system, and terminally cull for low disease resistance.

Ditto

:yeahthat:

 

[lissapell]

I had conversations with a vet yesterday and am speaking with another more rabbit savy vet today. Yesterday it was explained to me like Flu in people. There are so many different strains the vaccine (she believed was a dead vaccine)would only be cover the ones most commonly found. When it mutates again it would need to be administered for that mutation. It seems that there is still a ton of research that is needed on the subject. The projection cost of the vaccine is under 10.00 and expected to be administered around 10-12 wks after the maternal antibodies wear off and then again 4-6 wks later. After that it would be administered as a booster. Finding the ingredient list seems to be the most difficult at this point.
I am not a vaccination advocate so i am very leery about the idea. I am still leaning toward continuing to breed for the better immune system.

 

[Dood]

Unfortunately not all people are willing to kill an inferior animal, especially when they cost a lot of money, are a desired colour or a rare breed.

I agree that a pasturella vaccine can hide a poor immune systems or husbandry practices but other diseases may become more prevalent such as bordatella in these circumstances, regardless, I would be leery of any breeder who vaccinated everything, especially in meat breeds or if they didn't do showing.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

The projection cost of the vaccine is under 10.00 and expected to be administered around 10-12 wks after the maternal antibodies wear off and then again 4-6 wks later. After that it would be administered as a booster.

Years ago I had a dog and a cat get cancer within a year of each other. I took my dog to a holistic vet (chemo would have cost my vet $400 or $600 per dose his cost, had to be administered monthly, and even with that he gave her 6 months), and he asked about my vaccine protocol. At the time, being a "good pet owner" and employee of a veterinarian, I vaccinated at 8, 12, and 16 weeks, and yearly thereafter.

He told me that was probably why they both had cancer. His protocol was to vaccinate once between 12-16 weeks for each disease found in our region, preferably with non-combined vaccines given a week apart. Some of his clients liked to vaccinate their animals once again in their geriatric years. He followed the law for rabies (canine) administered at six months, one year later, and every three years thereafter.

The incidence of cancer in his patients was very low.

There are so many different strains the vaccine (she believed was a dead vaccine)would only be cover the ones most commonly found.

That is also the case with bordetella in dogs. Did you happen to read the link I posted about that?

I am not a vaccination advocate so i am very leery about the idea.

Get ready for a fftopic: (kind of) :soap:

I have a healthy distrust of vaccines, to say the least.

I believe that the incidence of immune response disorders such as allergies and asthma are directly correlated to vaccine use, as is the recent rise of Alzheimers in the elderly population... flu vaccine, anyone? :roll:

I also believe that the rise in behavioral disorders such as ADD, ADHD, and the skyrocketing rise of children on the autism spectrum are a result... the number of vaccines given to this generation of children is staggering compared to what I was given as a child 40 some years ago.

My kids have never been vaccinated. They are the healthiest kids around. They never suffered from ear infections as infants, which seems almost epidemic, and they rarely ever get sick. They have only had antibiotics a handful of times in their lives, and are now 16, 14, and almost 11.

My only worry is chicken pox- if not contracted as a youngster, the pox virus can be very dangerous for adults. Unfortunately, since most people vaccinate for it, I was never able to find a child with it to expose my kids to.

Another problem with the fact that children are vaccinated against chicken pox is that in order to have immunity to the shingles virus, adults need to be exposed to children with chicken pox, so we will see a rise in the cases of shingles in the adult population.

I haven't vaccinated our last few dogs at all except for rabies as required by law. My JRT did get the Rattlesnake vaccine which is of course venom based, but a lot of good it did him, since he was killed by a rattler.

 

[mystang89]

The projection cost of the vaccine is under 10.00 and expected to be administered around 10-12 wks after the maternal antibodies wear off and then again 4-6 wks later. After that it would be administered as a booster.

Years ago I had a dog and a cat get cancer within a year of each other. I took my dog to a holistic vet (chemo would have cost my vet $400 or $600 per dose his cost, had to be administered monthly, and even with that he gave her 6 months), and he asked about my vaccine protocol. At the time, being a "good pet owner" and employee of a veterinarian, I vaccinated at 8, 12, and 16 weeks, and yearly thereafter.

He told me that was probably why they both had cancer. His protocol was to vaccinate once between 12-16 weeks for each disease found in our region, preferably with non-combined vaccines given a week apart. Some of his clients liked to vaccinate their animals once again in their geriatric years. He followed the law for rabies (canine) administered at six months, one year later, and every three years thereafter.

The incidence of cancer in his patients was very low.

There are so many different strains the vaccine (she believed was a dead vaccine)would only be cover the ones most commonly found.

That is also the case with bordetella in dogs. Did you happen to read the link I posted about that?

I am not a vaccination advocate so i am very leery about the idea.

Get ready for a fftopic: (kind of) :soap:

I have a healthy distrust of vaccines, to say the least.

I believe that the incidence of immune response disorders such as allergies and asthma are directly correlated to vaccine use, as is the recent rise of Alzheimers in the elderly population... flu vaccine, anyone? :roll:

I also believe that the rise in behavioral disorders such as ADD, ADHD, and the skyrocketing rise of children on the autism spectrum are a result... the number of vaccines given to this generation of children is staggering compared to what I was given as a child 40 some years ago.

My kids have never been vaccinated. They are the healthiest kids around. They never suffered from ear infections as infants, which seems almost epidemic, and they rarely ever get sick. They have only had antibiotics a handful of times in their lives, and are now 16, 14, and almost 11.

My only worry is chicken pox- if not contracted as a youngster, the pox virus can be very dangerous for adults. Unfortunately, since most people vaccinate for it, I was never able to find a child with it to expose my kids to.

Another problem with the fact that children are vaccinated against chicken pox is that in order to have immunity to the shingles virus, adults need to be exposed to children with chicken pox, so we will see a rise in the cases of shingles in the adult population.

I haven't vaccinated our last few dogs at all except for rabies as required by law. My JRT did get the Rattlesnake vaccine which is of course venom based, but a lot of good it did him, since he was killed by a rattler.

Yeah, most of what she said.

 

[lissapell]

That is also the case with bordetella in dogs. Did you happen to read the link I posted about that?

Yes, I did read about bordetella in dogs. The vaccine is like a "magic pill." It could take care of the issue "a" but has the potential of screwing up so many other things.

 

[phillinley]

This has been making the rounds on facebook and the vaccine is already being sold.

USDA approved a full license for the vaccine called Bunny Vac based on the efficacy and safety test results. This product is being sold and marketed through Pan American Veterinary Laboratories.

The efficacy study: There were 20 naive rabbits vaccinated and 10 were non-vaccinated controls. The study involved 2 vaccinations 4 weeks apart followed by a challenge with minimum lethal dose of a virulent strain of Pasteurella multocida given intranasally to mimic natural infection 3 weeks post 2nd vaccination. Test subjects were then observed for a period of 2 weeks.
All of the controls got very sick after the challenge, and 6 of the 10 rabbits actually died during the study. None of the vaccinated rabbits died during the study. The vaccinated rabbits did developed very mild clinical signs during the study, but all of the vaccinates were totally normal at the end of the study.

The field safety involved ~ 300 rabbits in 3 different geographical locations without issues.

The vaccine is regulated and licensed through USDA. USDA regulates Veterinary Biologics and FDA regulates Veterinary Pharmaceuticals.

What bothers me is this is that the study isn't published yet and they're already selling it. No website for information, USDA confirms it and not the FDA. I'd love official information on this thing, but at the moment it's elusive.

 

[LauraNJ]

I don't believe the FDA regulates vaccines for animals. That is the USDA.

Found a link http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparenc ... 193868.htm

I'll have to go check out the vaccine. I would be interested in using it for the rabbits.<br /><br />__________ Tue May 07, 2013 1:43 pm __________<br /><br />I just went to that companies website, I can't find anything about it. Am I looking in the wrong place? Happen to have a link to the vaccine?

 

[3mina]

I don't like the idea of filling my animals with noxious substances, I would rather breed for a healthy immune system

 

[phillinley]

I don't like the idea of filling my animals with noxious substances, I would rather breed for a healthy immune system

and I would rather breed for a healthy immune system and have immuno booster's available if they are free of side effects that have been uncovered through clinical testing. Just like I try to avoid the rusty nails but every now and then accidents happen so I'm glad I'm up on my tetanus boosters if I have a random nail go through my boot.