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Wow! Very interesting and good to know. The part about panacur working better than the Ivomec was interesting. I usually have the liquid Safegard (Fenbendazole) for goats on hand but I'm out right now. I better restock just in case. I use it for the dogs, the goats and have used it on the new rabbits just to be sure they weren't bringing in anything. Its good stuff! I hope it works for him and gets him back on his little paws soon. :)
 
Can I moisturize his eyeballs with a little extra virgin olive oil? I don't have eye ointment, and I can't afford it at the moment.

Sorry, had to drop in with a question, will read replies above in just a bit. :)
 
Okay, did some fast poking around, and found this, in a long comment by a Dr. Carol Jean Tillman, concerning a problem with a dog's eyes:

You can drip some olive oil into her eyes to help lubricate them, which may relieve some of the pain. Health food stores will carry an eye rinse containing Euphrasia, which would be very good in this case to use to rinse her eyes, followed by the olive oil dripped into her eyes every 2-4 hours.

http://www.organic-pet-digest.com/somet ... ation.html

So I went ahead and did so... and the olive oil I use is very high quality. I use it sparingly, though I wish I could afford to use it liberally (it's much cheaper than the expensive stuff at the grocery stores, though)! But I will be doing this several times a day.

Pinto took the olive oil in his "up" eye just fine. But, just as something I read had said, his "down" eye is inflammed, because it is always open, and always in contact with stuff like hay. He was less understanding about that eye, but we got it in there.
 
What are the results of oxytetracycline treatment (liquamyin)? Also, if you have pen g you could use it in his eyes to help lubricate them and prevent infection. If there's an ear infection, you could use a few drops of pen g in his ears twice a day, right? Massage it in if its in the canal?
 
xa.logan":2v0m76ik said:
What are the results of oxytetracycline treatment (liquamyin)? Also, if you have pen g you could use it in his eyes to help lubricate them and prevent infection. If there's an ear infection, you could use a few drops of pen g in his ears twice a day, right? Massage it in if its in the canal?
You can't use broad-spectrums on it - fungus, not a bacteria. I'd think there'd be some sign of an ear infection.
 
RJSchaefer":1rugevf4 said:
How's he doing?
He's doing okay. He seems to be slowly figuring out how to cope. Up is down and down is up. I fed him all his medicated pellets upside-down, LOL. It took two sessions to get all of them into him. The medicated pellet slurry did not go through the syringe well, so I measured out another dose, and fed it to him straight. Mom held him while I fed him. :) He likes (now, anyway) to be held nice and firm, so the world stays still.

It's actually pretty funny watching a rabbit eat upside-down. :)

He is standing up in the carrier now and then. He'll stand up with his head all twisted over and he'll wobble, move a little, and fall over. But he's trying!

He is drinking tea from a medicine bottle cap very enthusiastically. I don't think I'll need to inject a bolus. He's had more than 4 ounces today, probably at least 6... and he's one of those bunnies that hardly drinks anything.

My beloved Shay has vertigo that shows up from time to time. When he first got it, it was really, really bad. When I told him that what Pinto was going through was much like his vertigo, he completely understood, and all of Pinto's thrashing and rolling over made sense. He is very sympathetic toward Pinto's plight.

Some of you might be familiar with Jay-Jay the Jet Plane... I told the kids (now WELL past that age) that Pinto has Upsy-Downosis. :lol:

RJSchaefer":1rugevf4 said:
Aspirin is probably a good choice. NSAIDs have demonstrated anti-fungal properties against some strains. I found it out that the author of your quote said s/he doesn't give NSAIDs. The symptoms are a result of the inflammation from the parasite, so I would think removing the stress of inflammation from the system would be just as important (in the short term) as knocking out the fungus.
I noticed that she said she doesn't give them either, but I agree, it's probably a very good idea to try to get the inflammation to subside.

AmysMacdog":1rugevf4 said:
Wow! Very interesting and good to know. The part about panacur working better than the Ivomec was interesting. I usually have the liquid Safegard (Fenbendazole) for goats on hand but I'm out right now. I better restock just in case. I use it for the dogs, the goats and have used it on the new rabbits just to be sure they weren't bringing in anything. Its good stuff! I hope it works for him and gets him back on his little paws soon. :)
Thank you! I'm not sure which works better, I know Barbi Brown has had great success with Ivermectin. I went with the Fenbendazole because it sounded like it was at least as good, and because I had given him Ivermectin -- but it was 2 years expired, had been kept in a shed for a few months, and I didn't know how effective it still was... and it was the 4th of July, so nobody who's going to have Ivermectin was open, so I had to use what I had.

But I wanted to make sure to get something in him I knew was full-strength, so today went and got Fenbendazole. I didn't want to give him more Ivermectin yet, and risk an overdose.

I got the pellets for two reasons: One, we're really tight right now, and it was only $1 for an amount more than sufficient to carry until payday. Two, the lady at the feed store said it would probably be easier to measure out the correct dosage with the pellets. She was right -- because I happen to have a little scale that does fractions of ounces.

coffeenutdesigns":1rugevf4 said:
Well, it was worth looking into. I hope your treatment works!
Yes, and I appreciate it! If I hadn't already looked down his ears, I'd have jumped up to do it right then!

Thank you! :)

luvabunny":1rugevf4 said:
I have had personal experience with aspirin killing rabbits. I would not use it.
Wow... I hadn't heard of problems. It's recommended for rabbits all over the place. What happened?

I already had given him some aspirin... so far, so good.<br /><br />__________ Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:57 am __________<br /><br />
xa.logan":1rugevf4 said:
What are the results of oxytetracycline treatment (liquamyin)? Also, if you have pen g you could use it in his eyes to help lubricate them and prevent infection. If there's an ear infection, you could use a few drops of pen g in his ears twice a day, right? Massage it in if its in the canal?
I do not know about oxytetracycline treatment for wry neck.

I do have PenG in my fridge. I would just drip it into the eyes? One or two drops?

There appears to be no ear infection. There are no signs of one.
 
RJSchaefer":3hvbmvdn said:
You can't use broad-spectrums on it - fungus, not a bacteria. I'd think there'd be some sign of an ear infection.

Actually oxytetracycline does work well as a fungicide. It's probably one of the best treatments for myco around. Myco's technically a fungus but Texas a&m successfully treated myco with la-200. I wasn't sure if it translated to the head tilt fungus.

With the Pen G, yes. Pull it into a syringe and drop a few drops into the infection.

Here's something I found interesting:

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-8/head-tilt.html

Edit: with ear infection, I just meant infection in general. Way deep in the canal isn't visible to the eye without an odoscope. I was thinking more of an inner ear infection.

Double edit: eye drops! http://www.ehow.com/way_5397657_homemade-eye-drops.html
 
Thank you so much, xa.logan! Those are great links... would he exhibit any pain if he had an inner ear infection? Discomfort when rubbed around the ears?

Just wondering if there would be any way I could tell he has an ear infection without going to a vet, which I can't afford right now. I don't want to give him antibiotics if I don't have a pretty good idea that he has an infection. :(

I'm really leaning toward thinking it's the E. Cuniculi, because I changed his water bottle.

This poor bun... other than hay, he's not eating enough to keep a bird alive (and I'm not sure how much hay he's eating). But I found out just a little while ago that he loves canned pumpkin, so maybe I can get some more food into him!

Hmmm... he does have a lot less hay in the carrier than he did... maybe he's been eating more hay than I thought.

He can get up and stand, usually with his front legs out like outriggers, and he would rather stand than lie down. :)
 
xa.logan":1lgsey0q said:
Actually oxytetracycline does work well as a fungicide. It's probably one of the best treatments for myco around. Myco's technically a fungus but Texas a&m successfully treated myco with la-200. I wasn't sure if it translated to the head tilt fungus.
Good to know! I did a quick Google on it, and it's not terribly effective for Microsporidia colonizations. Around a 60% reduction in immuno-compromised humans. Maybe it would be more effective in rabbits?

Here's more info on e cuniculi, Miss M. It discusses oxytetraycline briefly. He also mentions reducing calcium intake? (Sorry for the long link, I can't get a direct one)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... l5D-cu672A<br /><br />__________ Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:20 am __________<br /><br />Any update on this? I hope he got better.
 
Hoping everything turns out ok soon for this little guy! :clover:
 
RJSchaefer":y1javl4i said:
xa.logan":y1javl4i said:
What are the results of oxytetracycline treatment (liquamyin)? Also, if you have pen g you could use it in his eyes to help lubricate them and prevent infection. If there's an ear infection, you could use a few drops of pen g in his ears twice a day, right? Massage it in if its in the canal?
You can't use broad-spectrums on it - fungus, not a bacteria. I'd think there'd be some sign of an ear infection.

What fungus are we talking about? I thought Miss M was treating Pinto for EC?
 
OneAcreFarm":cr2h29v4 said:
What fungus are we talking about? I thought Miss M was treating Pinto for EC?
EC is a fungus. It's in the Microsporidia family, and lives within cells as a form of parasite
 
RJSchaefer":1glv0je9 said:
OneAcreFarm":1glv0je9 said:
What fungus are we talking about? I thought Miss M was treating Pinto for EC?
EC is a fungus. It's in the Microsporidia family, and lives within cells as a form of parasite

This is really interesting...there is research that indicates that microsporidia, of which EC is one, are actually a form of highly developed fungi. That is a fairly new development, as it used to be considered a protozoal parasite, like Giardia. So, EC is now classified taxonomically in the Kingdom: Fungi.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3109650/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 6X0500029X
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15599510

That is going to change the way people are treating it, since as was mentioned, antibiotics won't work against a fungus. http://aac.asm.org/content/57/7/3067.abstract

I am glad I asked... :) I like learning new things.
 
RJSchaefer":szvlnyrr said:
Any update on this? I hope he got better.
He is slowly improving. His actual head tilt is about the same, but he had been very weak, and he's been getting stronger. He still doesn't have a lot of use of his right side, but he has more than he did. He heard me get a wipe out this morning after he ate and got a bunch of applesauce on his face, and he suddenly hurried to try to clean his face himself! :lol: It was so cute! His right leg was trying so hard to get in on the action. I held it for him so he could lick it and use it a little to rub his face. :p

At first, we had to hold his head so he could eat and drink. Now we don't. My mom has to hold him, and I have to hold the bowls, but we don't have to hold his head. He has gotten strong and feisty, but my mom has his number. :)

He'll still roll over a lot when he tries to stand up, but he makes it to a standing position a lot more often now.

I gave him the initial dose of Ivermectin, which was out of date, but was all I had.

The next day, I bought some pellets medicated with Fenbendazole. He's been getting roughly 20 mg/kg daily, to be continued for at least four weeks.

One week after the dose of Ivermectin, I gave him the second dose, this time from a fresh tube. One week later, I gave him a third dose, because I had no idea how effective the first dose was, and I wanted to make sure he at least got two effective doses. I will now go to a dose every three months.

A couple of times, he's gotten a bit messy, and I've had to trim some of the fur on his back legs and around his boy parts. He's been an absolute jewel about it, which is just amazing (and a relief, because I could have turned him into an "it" very quickly by accident, if he hadn't... :shock: ).

I keep waiting for the tilt to improve, but I've read that it can take a while. I have no guarantee that E. Cuniculi, which is what I am treating for, is actually the cause... but I feel I need to treat for it.

His "down eye" is clamped tightly shut, and has been a bit inflamed, as I read was common... I guess because it's constantly rubbing on stuff, and was probably getting pine dust and hay in it. The other night, I saw a little white goop on it, which could easily be from something getting in it, but I started him on PenG just to make sure nothing nefarious was going on.

I have been putting two drops of olive oil into each eye daily, to keep them moist (his "up eye" hardly ever closes, though he's able to blink occasionally now). It seems to be working really well.

He is very, very thin. His appetite, once nonexistent, has come roaring back. He's eating very well, but he's still skin and bones.

MSD pointed out to me that she didn't think we had a detailed wry neck treatment experience on here, so I plan to keep notes and make another thread about it, eventually.

OneAcreFarm":szvlnyrr said:
This is really interesting...there is research that indicates that microsporidia, of which EC is one, are actually a form of highly developed fungi. That is a fairly new development, as it used to be considered a protozoal parasite, like Giardia. So, EC is now classified taxonomically in the Kingdom: Fungi.
Yes, this is what I had found as well. Strange stuff! Some lines are more blurry than you expect them to be. :)
 

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