UPDATE: she died...Pregnant Doe Splayed Out, not moving-- he

[TF3]

It's been a challenging 24 hours here!
Dead kits, fighting grow outs and now my French Lop cross has an issue.

She is due tomorrow.
I can feel babies, she is VERY pregnant.
And she is splayed out and can't seem to get around...
(So much so where she usually freaks over handling she just doesn't move now).
Now... The same dang thing happened to me in pregnancy, so I feel for her!


Should I be concerned (I am!)... Will she kindle ok? I changed the nest to one with almost no lip (she hasn't nested yet).will she be ok after delivery?

I keep sticking hay and water under her nose with no success. :x

-- Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:14 am --

UPDATE: about 20 minutes after I posted this I came back in and she was gone.
*just* gone so I thought it might be worth a try to grab the kits-- no luck with the c-section.
11 dead kits.

I didn't REALLY probe but what I assume was the stomach was blown up like a ballon and sloshing with fluid... Like half full. Bloat?

 

[Susie570]

That's terrible Sorry for your loss!

Did it look like there was a kit stuck in the birth canal or anything?

 

[TF3]

No, I don't think she was labouring yet.
Reading and it sounds like bloat~ whether from a block or been building over time (hard to tell as she was a withdrawn rabbit on a good day~ I just got her a month ago) or sudden.

I don't know if it has to do with feed?
Everyone else is eating and drinking, although I just gave them all a big serving of hay to keep things moving through them.
We ran out of hay over the weekend, but we were giving some we saved to Minnie (who died) and the other doe about to kindle.
And they all had grass, which we had been feeding already on most days, checking the grass to be sure it was just that.
I am thinking that yesterday no one had hay, but then Minnie didn't eat her grass, either.
So I can't say if it was related?

Is it possible that a big doe (maybe 13 pounds? very large frame) with 11 kits that things somehow cut off the intestine and caused a back up?
Her poop was looking normal all along although I couldn't be sure there was any of hers last night.
I assume the bloat caused heart failure today as the upper organs were pushed up very high from the stomach.

 

[alforddm]

I'm sorry you lost her. Sorry I can't be of much help figuring out what went wrong.

 

[FourRingCircus]

I'm so sorry It seems to come in spurts (and sometimes waves) around here - where nothing seems to go right...

 

[Zinnia]

I'm so sorry.

Any chance these does are overweight? I know that really complicates things when they are in labor. Sometimes, their muscles can be too lax to promote efficient labor.

 

[TF3]

Thanks all These things happen, so we are trying to learn from them.

I bought them both from the same place (mother and daughter).
Pearl wasn't overweight, just a solid meat brick (NZW/ Satin), Minnie could have been a bit... she didn't *feel* obese at all... but she was just a massive rabbit overall~ she and my FG buck were the same size (although she weighed less).
I assume that was the French Lop father she got the heft from.
When I saw her trouble, I did think it looked like lax pelvis, but then I saw the stomach. Maybe both!

I think I will breed her mother again~ she has had successful litters so she can have another chance right away (just giving her a night or two to see if she will nurse the two survivors of her own).

 

[Zass]

I'm sorry you lost the doe.

Did you see her liver? With toxemia or ketosis, I think it would have started to look very pale.

If she's lost her appetite before normal, that might be your culprit.

Bloat happens when gi symptoms kind of spiral out of control. I think wool block would be enough to trigger it in some rabbits.
But you would usually see some sign of stasis first.

 

[MaggieJ]

It sounds as though it might have been bloat, Lori. I'm so sorry you lost her and all the kits too.

It was brave to try a c-section. (((HUGS)))

 

[TF3]

Toxemia -- from blood pressure?
There was definitely a bloated stomach w/fluid but I didn't dig for the liver.
I think she was on her way out before I noticed anything, unfortunately.
And some of the placentas were looking poorly, so babes were already gone.