UGGHHH I'm so frustrated

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Her Farmstead Rabbitry

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Nov 30, 2023
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Location
Marion, North Carolina
I just bought 18 cages to expand my rabbitry. I have been looking for another breed to add. All of the breeders I find are either way too far or don't raise rabbits anymore! I would prefer pedigreed but nobody has them only purebred. But the Icing on top I found 2 places that raise creme d'argents ( my dream rabbits) and so I message them. One gets back with me immediately, theirs are pedigreed. I ask for prices, THEY ARE $150 DOLLARS. They are in my area though!!! Should I buy them,150 for does 130 for bucks? I could eventually make my money back. The other place, I know they have rabbits but they haven't responded!!!
Let me know if you are in the Western part of North Carolina and have meat rabbits. I am trying to buy them soon. I am not set on which breed I will pick but you can try to convince me of yours! Let me know if you guys know of any breeders near me!
 
Well, that's a lot, but on the other hand - it's just money, at the current inflation rate you get less and less for it every day :D.

Being happy with the rabbits would be worth more to me than the money, well, I spent more on vet visits with retired does last year...

If all the boxes check and it's just the price, I doubt you'll think about the price much two years down the road.
 
Well, I once saw a young goat buck sell for 10K at a dairy convention. Then 6 months later he was being collected at a semen collection event we went to. His straws sold for $450 for 5. One jump will usually get about 60 straws.
So, if they are purebred, people spend a lot of money on good stock/genetics.
Seriously, I sell my goat kids for $600. Each. Because of the word PUREBRED.
 
If they're the only ones with them in the area then it makes sense to have higher price. They probably had to go a distance to get started with them too. And if there isn't alot of people flipping or mass selling them then you have the corner on the market.

It's tough to be in a place where we balk at people wanting $5 rabbits but then we balk at $100 rabbits. It's always a balance.

It's the same with all animals. I started with cheap sheep. That's why I know now I won't buy cheap sheep anymore. I know how much feed I use per animal over a year. I track my costs and play with the numbers. What makes sense and what doesn't.

On the up side, if you get some expensive rabbits then you'll be selling competitively with that person. Now you sell them for the same price range. It will either pay itself back or it won't.
 
I just bought 18 cages to expand my rabbitry. I have been looking for another breed to add. All of the breeders I find are either way too far or don't raise rabbits anymore! I would prefer pedigreed but nobody has them only purebred. But the Icing on top I found 2 places that raise creme d'argents ( my dream rabbits) and so I message them. One gets back with me immediately, theirs are pedigreed. I ask for prices, THEY ARE $150 DOLLARS. They are in my area though!!! Should I buy them,150 for does 130 for bucks? I could eventually make my money back. The other place, I know they have rabbits but they haven't responded!!!
Let me know if you are in the Western part of North Carolina and have meat rabbits. I am trying to buy them soon. I am not set on which breed I will pick but you can try to convince me of yours! Let me know if you guys know of any breeders near me!
Personally, I wouldn't be willing to pay over $30 for any breed (pedigreed, maybe $40). It seems way too expensive, and it would take a while to get your money back. Depending on gas prices, it may make more sense to drive somewhere that isn't as local. I bought all of my rabbits for under $25 each. However, they are cheaper breeds. I didn't have the money to get anything more expensive.

Ultimately, you will have to make the call yourself and decide what you are willing to pay, and how far you are willing to drive.
 
Personally, I wouldn't be willing to pay over $30 for any breed (pedigreed, maybe $40). It seems way too expensive, and it would take a while to get your money back. Depending on gas prices, it may make more sense to drive somewhere that isn't as local. I bought all of my rabbits for under $25 each. However, they are cheaper breeds. I didn't have the money to get anything more expensive.

Ultimately, you will have to make the call yourself and decide what you are willing to pay, and how far you are willing to drive.
I would totally be willing to drive like an hour and a half. But the problem is I can't drive. My parents would have to drive me.
 
100+ is high for a rabbit (in my opinion) but it could be good for later (ex. Getting wonderful Kits from them)
In Montana there are people who sell pedigree Rex's for $125.00 to $150 on up. I'm not one of them. I bought all pedigreed here.. New Zealand., and rexs $35. Satins $40. I have driven over 3 hours to pick up the ones I wanted. All have champions in the bloodlines. I refused to pay $125 on up. Having said that, you would get your money back if you charge the same. Do some showing, building your brand .Depends on what you are set on. Are you eating the offspring? What is your market like?where do you want your journey to take you?"
 
. . .
Let me know if you are in the Western part of North Carolina and have meat rabbits. I am trying to buy them soon. I am not set on which breed I will pick but you can try to convince me of yours! Let me know if you guys know of any breeders near me!

I'm not in your area, but did you happen to check on the ARBA website? Besides the shows, it also lists both breeders and clubs?

arba.net/find-a-breeder-2/
arba.net/club-search/

Sorry for no actual links. Copy / paste the above in your address bar if you like. My replies are put in time out, so I'm experimenting if it's because of clickable links, or I'm just the new kid. :) (which I understand why it's done, and it's no problem either way)

Cheers!

Edit: It's pretty obvious I'm new to the rabbit scene, but the little I've gathered over the last couple of months those prices seem high to me also.
 
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Yes, I've paid that much for pedigreed rabbits, and like everyone else, I'm much more likely to purchase stock (and more of it) when it is much more within my budget. BUT, I'd rather spend the bigger bucks on quality stock that is the breed I want with the characteristics I want.

If you buy cheap rabbits locally that aren't really what you want, how many years will it take you to breed them up to what you want? And how do you breed "up" stock when you don't have any with the right traits to work with? What will be the long term cost of those cheap rabbits?

That said, price doesn't determine the value of a rabbit. I've paid big bucks for stock that turned out to be unusable due to other traits showing up that aren't permitted in my breeding program (bad temperament, poor immune system, refusal to mother babies, etc.) And I've purchased very inexpensive stock that turned out to be real winners. Price (and fancy names on a pedigree) are no guarantee that that particular rabbit will be a good breeder for you.

When you are starting a breeding program, I usually suggest that you start with the best quality of stock that you can afford--start small and breed to the size you want your rabbitry to be. When you start with the good stuff--rabbits that come from herds with the traits you really want--you save years worth of headache trying to get good offspring out of mediocre stock.

Whenever you bring in new stock, it's good to quarantine them for several weeks to a month, just to be sure they didn't bring anything into your rabbitry that will be a problem. Have the breeder send you with some of the feed they are currently being fed, and give them just that same feed in the same quantity (ask how much they are feeding) for the first few days. Then you can slowly add small amounts of your feed to their feed, gradually increasing the amount of your feed until they have safely transitioned over to your feed. It's heartbreaking to bring in a new treasure for your herd, only to have them refuse to eat and wither away. Take the transition slowly, and you have a much greater chance of success. We generally give a quart size zipper bag of feed for each rabbit with our stock when they go to a new home
 
. . . I'd rather spend the bigger bucks on quality stock that is the breed I want with the characteristics I want.

If you buy cheap rabbits locally that aren't really what you want, how many years will it take you to breed them up to what you want? And how do you breed "up" stock when you don't have any with the right traits to work with? What will be the long term cost of those cheap rabbits? . . .

. . . price doesn't determine the value of a rabbit. I've paid big bucks for stock that turned out to be unusable due to other traits showing up that aren't permitted in my breeding program (bad temperament, poor immune system, refusal to mother babies, etc.) And I've purchased very inexpensive stock that turned out to be real winners. Price (and fancy names on a pedigree) are no guarantee that that particular rabbit will be a good breeder for you.

When you are starting a breeding program, I usually suggest that you start with the best quality of stock that you can afford--start small and breed to the size you want your rabbitry to be. When you start with the good stuff--rabbits that come from herds with the traits you really want--you save years worth of headache trying to get good offspring out of mediocre stock. . . .

Priceless, and thanks for this. Picking the right stock is my current conundrum at my early stages with rabbits. My main focus atm is the education to have a chance at picking the best. It occurs to me, I will spend the same amount of time, infrastructure and feed on a poor quality rabbit as one that is a top producer. It is false economy to buy poor quality at $0 that will take generations to correct.

Not sure why, but I wasn't expecting that even the pros can get surprised by the outcome. It's nature, how could it not. I would really appreciate all who could advise on the best sources that would help a beginner to choose the right stock.

@judymac thanks again.
 
I would prefer pedigreed but nobody has them only purebred.
The problem with "purebred but not pedigreed" is that it can be difficult to be sure they actually are purebred, especially if you're a beginner. I've found that a lot of people think they know what they have, usually because that's what the person they bought the rabbits from told them, but the rabbits do not look anything like the breed they're supposed to be.

As many of us have mentioned here and elsewhere, having a pedigree doesn't necessarily tell you very much about the quality of the rabbit. A pedigree is simply a list of ancestors. However... if the breeder has bothered to keep pedigrees, you know they have done at least the bare minimum to show they're serious about breeding good quality rabbits. Note that even if a pedigree records an ancestor that does not meet the breed standard - a chestnut New Zealand, for example, or a harlequin Rex - it does not always mean that the rabbits are not purebred.

Keep in mind, too, that you are only three generations away from pedigreed rabbits if you start keeping track of them yourself. I bought my first trio of Satins without pedigrees. I knew they were good quality rabbits, and I couldn't afford the pedigrees at the time. (Around here, you're often given the choice of paying extra for pedigrees. For many people, for example those simply wanting to raise good-quality meat rabbits, pedigrees aren't really valuable.) But I knew that if I kept track of my breeding program - which I would do anyway - I'd have purebred pedigreed rabbits three generations down. The trick, though, is to be able to discern whether those "purebred but not pedigreed" rabbits are what they are supposed to be. The ideal way to do this is to find someone knowledgeable to come with you to look at the rabbits. Going to a show and talking with breeders there is another excellent way to learn what to look for. While it is not ideal, you can always post some photos here and people can give you their impressions and opinions.

But the Icing on top I found 2 places that raise creme d'argents ( my dream rabbits) and so I message them. One gets back with me immediately, theirs are pedigreed. I ask for prices, THEY ARE $150 DOLLARS. They are in my area though!!! Should I buy them,150 for does 130 for bucks? I could eventually make my money back. The other place, I know they have rabbits but they haven't responded!!!
I agree that $130-$150 is quite high for a rabbit. Yes, some people do buy and sell them for such prices and more, but I have never felt it appropriate to do so. I am willing to pay for quality, but I am not willing to overpay. In fact, that is why we did not buy any Creme D'Argents, but are in the process of making them ourselves. :)

When my daughter started talking about paying similar prices for Cremes, here is what I told her: First, the fact of the matter is that, to put it bluntly, rabbits die. They frequently have a distinct tendency to die at the worst possible moment. They escape, dogs get them, they refuse to breed, they eat the feet off their babies, they try to rip your radial artery open when you go to feed them. Of course most rabbits don't do any of that (well, they do all die, eventually). But when I buy a nice new buck for $50 and he dies before I can get a single bunny out of him, that doesn't knock the wind out of me like it would if I'd paid $130 for him. These are the mental calculations I always make when debating the price I'm willing to pay for a rabbit: how much money am I willing to possibly have to bury in the yard? Especially if you are just starting out, there will be a learning curve that might not be particularly forgiving. I would counsel finding good quality rabbits at a more reasonable price to start out with. The Cremes probably aren't going anywhere, and with age and experience a lot more opportunities will be available to you.

Second, Cremes are not likely to be of the quality you would see in a similarly priced Californian, New Zealand, Satin, Rex or even Champagne D'Argent. Those breeds have hundreds, if not thousands, of breeders working to improve them. Being a rare breed, in my experience and those of many judges I've talked with, Cremes leave a bit to be desired in type. The breeder you talked to may have wonderful rabbits, but Cremes do not generally take Best in Show unless it's a Creme D'Argent Specialty show. Rather than being priced for their over-the-top quality, what I've found is that Cremes are priced high simply because they're rare.

So then you have to ask yourself, why are they rare? Why are there so few Creme breeders? Even if you can't answer that question, it should make you wonder if you could actually make your money back. My friend paid many hundreds of dollars to get a trio of Blanc De Hotos up here, then found out the does could only manage to have a single litter each season. Blancs are gorgeous, but she had very few bunnies to sell, and very few takers for her sale rabbits even when she lowered the price to a fraction of what she'd paid.

Unless your area is very different from other places I've lived, you may not be able to sell many bunnies at a price anywhere near what you paid for them, but they'll cost just as much to keep and breed as any other rabbit. In my experience, people looking for rabbits are not nearly as willing to pay high prices for pedigreed stock as people looking for goats, sheep, horses or dogs, for example. And those that are willing, tend to be successful breeders themselves, looking for stock from other successful show breeders.

Breeds that are well-known for their meat qualities (Cals, NZs), and breeds that come in a wide variety of colors and unusual coat types (Rex, Satins), will make your potential market a lot wider. They are common enough that you should be able to find very nice stock for reasonable prices.

One suggestion I have is to contact your state rabbit club and FFA/4H/Extension office for referrals to rabbit breeders who are interested in helping youth get started. Lots of us older breeders really love to help kids get going, and will offer not only advice but sometimes also very nice rabbits for a reduced rate. Last fall I sold two Satin does to a 4Her (for $40 and $50 each), which have brought home three Open Best in Shows for her so far. To me, that's more exciting than owning the winning rabbits. And she is now hooked on Satins! ;)

The NC Rabbit Breeders Association is here:
https://www.facebook.com/ncrba/
Here's a website where you can find contact information about the NC State Extension office:
https://www.ces.ncsu.edu/
There was a rabbit project in Piedmont in 2022. I can't tell if it's still going, but this is who you might ask about a program near you: Laura Elmore Extension Agent, Agriculture - Livestock and Field Crops N.C. Cooperative Extension, Iredell County Center

And this is from north-central NC; you could contact them to ask for references to an agent in your section of NC who could help you find a breeder interested in helping you:
https://forsyth.ces.ncsu.edu/north-central-district-4-h-poultry-and-rabbit-show/
 
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I have little to add to the above wisdom, beyond my own anecdotes. I have paid too much for supposed pedigreed stock that was not as good (objectively, according to breed standard) as the bargain stock that I found unpedigreed on craigslist. I have also enthusiastically spent too much for "bargains" that I later decided did not fit my breeding program. The number of times that I have bought excellent unpedigreed stock in the meat rabbit world that was better than the pedigreed stock I found locally has led me to believe that for meat rabbits, I am confident that I am a better judge than a piece of paper, even as a fairly raw but educated beginner. I would say that a $20 rabbit can easily be MUCH better than a $50-$80 rabbit, in my area.

Having recently gotten into fiber rabbits, I have again tried both strategies, and I have had the opposite experience. In my area a $80-$150 rabbit is about 4x to 10x as good at producing fiber as a $40 rabbit. I suspect that the local breeding and spinning community are much more picky than the local pet/meat community, so pet grade rabbits sold at a lower price really are a very different quality. This leads me to believe that while there is a much smaller market for fiber bunnies, the market is less flooded.

If the market is big the odds of finding good stock for cheap is higher. If the market is small, any available good stock will be expensive--but it is possible that there will not be good stock locally available. Price is not an indicator of quality in most cases, so try to temper your enthusiasm and be very selective if you are planning on buying expensive rabbits!
 
Picking the right stock is my current conundrum at my early stages with rabbits. My main focus atm is the education to have a chance at picking the best.
Have you attended any rabbit shows? I find just standing there during the judging, watching what the judges are looking for, and listening to their comments, to be invaluable. It also lets you see a variety of rabbits, give you an idea of what to look for. It also puts you in contact with a number of breeders when you find a breed you like.

I agree with @Alaska Satin, choosing a rare breed can make things difficult. You are often paying for 'rare' and not quality. I've been there before, an expensive 'rare' plant or animal is often bred for sale regardless of the quality. There is often very little if any culling done, because 'rare' means valuable. Which perpetuates a LOT of poor traits in rare breeds.

Color is such a minor trait, albeit beautiful. What else about the Creme breed caught your attention? Are they better mothers, breed out of season better, have a good growth rate, survive on poor native forage, have a better meat to bone ratio, have exceptional personality, excellent conformation. . .? All of these are reasons that other rare breeds of livestock are still around. They fill a niche.

Some people choose a rare breed because the challenge of helping to save a breed headed to obscurity is appealing. That's a different story. That's a labor of love, not necessarily a profitable venture. Different reasons have different acceptable outcomes (like losing money).

Think about why you want rabbits, and what you want them to do.
In my area a $80-$150 rabbit is about 4x to 10x as good at producing fiber as a $40 rabbit. I suspect that the local breeding and spinning community are much more picky than the local pet/meat community, so pet grade rabbits sold at a lower price really are a very different quality.
I also raise fiber rabbits, and have found this very often to be true. Those who have put time and effort into producing an outstanding rabbit often expect to be paid accordingly. They probably paid that much for their stock, and then spent years breeding for important economic, useful traits. Yes, you might find even better quality rabbits cheap at the pet market, it happens, and it's a fun treat when it does. But the secret is knowing WHAT you are looking for and WHY.
 
So update guys, I found a breeder that has SATINS!! I am going to get some in 2 weeks at a show. This will also be my first time attending a show! I am not going to get those cremes. But if I did, the other person I messaged finally responded and she also has New Zealands that I am possibly going to get!
 
This is such an awesome forum and so much great advice here for you! I am also new and learned a lot reading all the replies. 😁

I have colony bred American Blues from a local breeder who bought from a rabbitry that was selling out their rabbits. I have learned so much that I can already tell which of the kits might be worth keeping and which are definitely are going to be dinner. I like the breed so much I am looking for better quality, and Americans are hard to find.

I also have New Zealand Reds. One doe is partially pedigreed, and they were also bought from a quality rabbitry. All are unrelated which is a plus. I see a difference in the quality of the Red kits which were born 12 hours before the Blues, though the blues are at a disadvantage because the mother didn't feed them for 2 days. The Blues were $45 each. The red trio was $50 each. I just wanted decent meat rabbits to start, and there were very few in my area. There were other breeds I was interested in but I couldn't find any, and I figured I couldn't go wrong with New Zealand. I saw the ad two hours after it was posted and pestered the seller immediately! The plus was that they were only an hour away. I am looking to travel 4-5 hours one way to get an American Blue buck. I am very happy with both and I don't think you can go wrong with New Zealands or your Satins.

I would get those two breeds, an unrelated breeding trio of each, and then make kits to fill the rest of those cages with the best from each litter. I wish you all the best in your journey!
 
You have gotten so much fabulous feedback, and I absolutley agree with all of it.

Rabbits, as a matter of fact, can die in 3 or less days from many, many things. Paying a lot for a rare breed is a huge step, and if and when you make the step, you want to know exactly what you are getting.

Go to shows and watch. Get an average costing pair of rabbits from a breeder there, and educate yourself of type and SOP.

I feel it is better to stick with pedigreed, purebred stock that is true to SOP if you plan to breed for meat, fur, and show.

A lot of work goes in to getting a breed recognized by the ARBA. A commercial meat breed that is true to SOP has had a lot of work done to create the best cuts of meat, the perfect pelts of fur, and adequate growth rates, etc . . .

There is no reason to mess with it, when I want all of that out of my rabbits.

Good Luck! Shows are fun! If your rabbits are old enough and already have an ear tag, buy thdm at the show early, and then register them to show in their age class.

You may be able to get valuable feedback right there at the show, before you ever get them home.
 
You have gotten so much fabulous feedback, and I absolutley agree with all of it.

Rabbits, as a matter of fact, can die in 3 or less days from many, many things. Paying a lot for a rare breed is a huge step, and if and when you make the step, you want to know exactly what you are getting.

Go to shows and watch. Get an average costing pair of rabbits from a breeder there, and educate yourself of type and SOP.

I feel it is better to stick with pedigreed, purebred stock that is true to SOP if you plan to breed for meat, fur, and show.

A lot of work goes in to getting a breed recognized by the ARBA. A commercial meat breed that is true to SOP has had a lot of work done to create the best cuts of meat, the perfect pelts of fur, and adequate growth rates, etc . . .

There is no reason to mess with it, when I want all of that out of my rabbits.

Good Luck! Shows are fun! If your rabbits are old enough and already have an ear tag, buy thdm at the show early, and then register them to show in their age class.

You may be able to get valuable feedback right there at the show, before you ever get them home.
That is a great idea, I think I will try to show them if I can!
 
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