Growth Rate v. Confirmation

[chancock921]

Hi! First time poster here! I have a question. I have been breeding meat mutts for, well, meat for about 6 months. My first few litters so far did not hit "Excellent" growth rates according to the growth rate chart. But one of my latest litters has one buck and one doe who have. BUT here is my question. The buck, who I am tossing around keeping, is a little narrow at his base and loin as of now. Still on the fence about the doe as well, but I just don't know if I need another.

He is only 8 weeks and still has growing to do, but if he gets to 12-16 weeks and is still narrow, do I keep him and breed him to my wide does to potentially keep the growth rate and hope they pass on their width? Or do I cull him and keep the doe (she is slightly wider; I just have A LOT of does right now)? His sire is a little on the narrow side as well, but I have a few wide does that I just bred his sire to in order compare, he's making his rounds so to speak.

Basically, I guess it's simpler put, when starting out should you breed for growth rates then once those are consistent, breed for confirmation/structure? Or vice versa? I know confirmation can affect carcass weight and such.

 

[tambayo]

Part of confirmation is enough room for kits to be born, so wide pelvic canal i.e. straight hindlegs when you turn the rabbit on its back. It tells you how far apart the hipjoints are and the pelvic canal where the kits go through is between those joints. Also properly lined up front teeth are confirmation and pretty essential (along with the rest of the teeth, but that requires some tools to see well). So first select for health and able to breed/give birth easily. Add mothering ability (good nest building, cleaning, produce enough milk, ...) from first litter at 6-9 months (depending on breedsize, dwarf can breed at 6 months, giant will need 9) and a litter no bigger then number of teats the doe has (usually 8, dwarf can have 6), so all kits get the same chance or time to drink.
So an animal that comes from a well raised litter of breeding fit parents and either proves that herself or through his offspring and thrives under your management.
Growth rates are a later consideration, keeping in mind that those traits are for producing more meat per animal of that growing stage, but all rabbit breeds and confirmations are fine for eating. Focus on production first selects for getting fat and therefore infertile and health problems. Although feed rations play a part, there comes a point where taking a step back growth rate wise helps your breeding stock to stay healthy and fertile. Same also when you look at the example breeding schedules given. Those may be way to agressive for your situation and are problematic if you need to stop breeding for a while (weather, family emergencies and so on). And again there you end up hampered by the focus on rapid production. Bigger and faster are not (always) better. Build in some flexibility and resilliance to cope with life, reality tends to not care about schedules so much.

 

[chancock921]

Part of confirmation is enough room for kits to be born, so wide pelvic canal i.e. straight hindlegs when you turn the rabbit on its back. It tells you how far apart the hipjoints are and the pelvic canal where the kits go through is between those joints. Also properly lined up front teeth are confirmation and pretty essential (along with the rest of the teeth, but that requires some tools to see well). So first select for health and able to breed/give birth easily. Add mothering ability (good nest building, cleaning, produce enough milk, ...) from first litter at 6-9 months (depending on breedsize, dwarf can breed at 6 months, giant will need 9) and a litter no bigger then number of teats the doe has (usually 8, dwarf can have 6), so all kits get the same chance or time to drink.
So an animal that comes from a well raised litter of breeding fit parents and either proves that herself or through his offspring and thrives under your management.
Growth rates are a later consideration, keeping in mind that those traits are for producing more meat per animal of that growing stage, but all rabbit breeds and confirmations are fine for eating. Focus on production first selects for getting fat and therefore infertile and health problems. Although feed rations play a part, there comes a point where taking a step back growth rate wise helps your breeding stock to stay healthy and fertile. Same also when you look at the example breeding schedules given. Those may be way to agressive for your situation and are problematic if you need to stop breeding for a while (weather, family emergencies and so on). And again there you end up hampered by the focus on rapid production. Bigger and faster are not (always) better. Build in some flexibility and resilliance to cope with life, reality tends to not care about schedules so much.

Thank you SO much. This is what I was looking for

 

[ohiogoatgirl]

If it were me I'd be real tempted to keep them both and test breed. The bright side with meat rabbits is that even if you aren't happy with them later, they still turn into meat.

I'd want to breed him to his sister to see if the growth rate holds and the body. If they're going more narrow still I'd be making sure not to keep any breeders from him.
Same to breed him to the wide doe. How do they look, are they on the narrow side like him or is it balancing? Does the growth rate hold?

If the growth rate holds but you aren't happy with confirmation you could use him for meat litters and just never keep his offspring. That'll depend on if it makes sense for you and your scale.

 

[Karen Page]

In the 1980s I had Rex, before mini Rex existed, really. Excellent conformation and growth rate. I had does that consistently had and raised 12 kits each time. I bred them 3 times a year, never in the summer due to Texas heat. I did have a couple that weren't up to par in various ways. I never kept their offspring.

1. Disposition. If you can't handle them, don't keep them.

2. Do they raise up their kits with no intervention. This puts some conformation elements up very high on the list. And it puts anything with wool on my no list because you have to be very careful to cut up the wool, so it doesn't choke the babies.

3. Do they grow to size with no major issues like health concerns. Lops come to mind because of potential ear issues, but I'm sure other breeds have issues.

4. Do they breed when you want them to. If a doe or buck takes two weeks to breed for kits you need ready in time, that's no good. I needed pen of fryers to show.

5. Conformation for your use. A meat rabbit build, not a slender Angora.

6. Speed to process weight.

Here's why I put process weight last. If you have litters of 6 ready in 10 weeks, carcass weight 10 lbs. That's 60 lbs in 10 weeks.

If you have a litter of 12 in 14 weeks, same 10 lb carcass, that's 120 lbs, in 14 weeks. Twice the weight in 4 more weeks.

You have to decide which makes more sense to you in your program. I've seriously over simplified this to make a point.

I had my Rex in high school. I had no issues paying for their feed from sales. I paid for my first truck with rabbit money. So when you plan your culls, consider all the factors.

Doe1 always has 6 and they are fat as ticks until weaned, then they slow down. Breed her right and maybe you get an even better doe.

Doe2 struggles to feed all of her kits, but she always has 10 and they take to grain well and finish quicker than doe1's kits after weaning. To me this is a keeper. Notice she doesn't lose her babies, just maybe loses weight, which you put back on her before breeding back. Or maybe you add something like black oil sunflower seeds to her diet for calories and protein. Unless you can't because of your setup.

Just some food for thought.

 

[ladysown]

is he better than dad? Even if he's narrow, is he less narrow than dad? If so, I'd keep him, that's how you improve. Use him, and look for a buck that is wider with good growth.