To Give Credit....Or Not.....

[Random Rabbit]

A conversation came up today on another group that gave me pause. A newer breeder had listed an animal for sale... and stated that one of the parents was from So-and-so's lines. So-and-so being a top breeder of that kind of animal. As the conversation progressed... So-and-so added comments to the effect that they were Not at all pleased to have their name linked in Any way with that particular animal ! The conversation became Very heated... and i was feeling bad for the OP.

However... thinking it over a bit later... i realized that i do the same thing. We purchased our nucleus stock from the foremost breeder of our breed. I have Always given what i believed was credit to Their hard work with the breed. Without their assistance we would not have gotten the quality of stock that we did. Without their guidance we would not have progressed as well as we have.

So.... is there a fine line between Giving Credit where due... and Using a Big Name to sell an animal ?


Thoughts ????? opcorn:

 

[Mary Ann's Rabbitry]

I know if it was me and i sold a rabbit that won at a show. I wouldnt mined my name being used. But if it is bad. Which i hope not. Then no.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think of it this way... you and I could buy the same kit to build, say, a ship in a bottle. But depending on our attention to detail, and the way we fit the pieces together, the results are likely going to be vastly different.

The OP may have made poor choices in combining her breeding stock, or the resulting animal got the worst of their traits instead of the positive ones.

I have always steered clear of mentioning my breeder by name for a variety of reasons- not least of which being that problems crop up in the best of lines, and the last thing I would want to do is give the impression that her stock was inferior in some way. It is well known that people like to focus on the negative more than the positive, so no matter how many stories I relate of how wonderful my rabbits are, the ones that people will spread around are the negatives.

:secret: "Don't buy from so-and-so. MSD had to cull one of her rabbits for Pasteurella!"

 

[A&BRabbitry]

Of course anyone can say a rabbit came from a line of a certain someone all of the best breeders do but the actuall animal itself is a product of the breeder as it takes more than just someone's name to earn a leg, BOB, or BIS and even the best breeders have culls. I might add though some of these non show quality culls can often produce high quality show rabbits themself. I know it is a bad comparison but I've seen a many of down right hideous looking people hav some of the most beautiful children but the genetics are there still even though their parents don't exhibit these qualities. I would like to iterate though even though a rabbit comes from a certain line once a breeder has began producing a line of their own it is just that, their line. Although it may stem from some fine stock on down the line if the proper practices aren't followed it won't matter a lick and if they bring in blood from another line this could always bring in more genetic faults.
I know I am kind of dancing arund the question but it comes down to not selling any rabbit to someone else that you wouldn't show yourself. You can only be responsible for the rabbit you sold not the generations to come. I myself am very proud of the lines my rabbits come from but don't get me wrong I'm not proud of every rabbit my barn produces.

 

[skysthelimit]

I don't buy rabbits for the lines it has in it's pedigree, unless I'm buying from that actual breeder. I do put little thank yous for the original rabbit on my website.

After I breed it, it becomes my lines.

One thing I learned in dogs-- every line produces non show quality. Matter of fact, most of what is produced is pets. Just because it can from ---lines, even directly from that breeder, doesn't mean it's quality. And like A&B said, it doesn't mean that it will breed true, or that it was bred advantageously.

I do get the ugly ones sometimes make the best kits, but I live by my dog rules, if it isn't good enough to show, it isn't good enough to breed. Not show as in top quality highly competitive, but as an all around decent specimen, that might not make heads turn, but it's a solid animal. Anything less than that is dog meat.

 

[A&BRabbitry]

Looks like I need to slow down on my typing by about 10wpm...alot of errors in the last post. I guess that is the Kentucky coming out in me, kind of like those rabbits it's one of those things they couldn't breed out of me lol.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Looks like I need to slow down on my typing by about 10wpm...alot of errors in the last post.

There are two buttons in the tool bar below your post, Quick Edit, and Edit. You can go back and fix it if you want to.

 

[A&BRabbitry]

Yes I know laziness persist, but thanks. I don't mind the errors. Afterall we all are human.

 

[Random Rabbit]

I just had not considered Not giving credit where "our" line started. ..... That conversation has really made me re=think it.

When does it jump from 'giving credit' to 'making a dollar from someone else's name' ??


( and Yes.... i DO over think things ! lol)

 

[skysthelimit]

I just had not considered Not giving credit where "our" line started. ..... That conversation has really made me re=think it.

When does it jump from 'giving credit' to 'making a dollar from someone else's name' ??


( and Yes.... i DO over think things ! lol)

I think after the first generation rabbits become the third generation rabbits.

 

[Piper]

was she selling the rabbit with a pedigree? Was the names of the rabbits - did they have the rabbitry as part of their names?
Was the rabbit pet quality or show quality? Even if pet quality (when I was showing dogs), I might have meantioned the prior breeder, strictly because they may try to have very healthy animals. "Just" from what you said, it sounds like the breeder, may not have handled it gracefully.

 

[Random Rabbit]

When does it jump from 'giving credit' to 'making a dollar from someone else's name' ??

I think after the first generation rabbits become the third generation rabbits.

That actually sounds like a Good rule of thumb.

( i remember years ago people advertising Great-great-great grandchildren of Rin-tin-tin... for hefty $$$$$ especially the "rare" white ones !)

was she selling the rabbit with a pedigree? Was the names of the rabbits - did they have the rabbitry as part of their names?
Was the rabbit pet quality or show quality? Even if pet quality (when I was showing dogs), I might have meantioned the prior breeder, strictly because they may try to have very healthy animals. "Just" from what you said, it sounds like the breeder, may not have handled it gracefully.

The breeder stated that one grandparent was of So-and-so's line. It was a breeding quality animal. Not so incorrect as to be a pet or cull... just not quite show quality. But of a much sought after color.....

 

[trinityoaks]

If "So and So" is the breeder of record of an animal that is required to be on the pedigree, then I don't see where "So and So" has any complaint coming.

 

[A&BRabbitry]

In the end the responsibility lies on the purchasor. I personally have only bought directly from those whom I mention my lines coming from. If you have the pedigree to reference and cn put yor hand on the animal personally then in the end if the buyer feels the price is appropriate the he or she will pay regardless of names involved. Of course your begining and novice breeders will oftern be tricked into overpaying for an under rated rabbit but that is why us responsible breeders must take it upon ourselves to try and introduce the newer novice breeders to quality rabbits and teach them as much as we can. We are the ones that must uphold te reputation of the hobby. A show quality rabbit should be just that, not a brood doe nor a pet. These actions are what make those well known breeders such a staple in the hobby.

 

[MKirst]

So then what does a new breeder to rabbits do if they buy show winner does that are prego to a show winner buck, and both the does and the buck have the breeders Rabbitry name ?

There's a breeder downsizing almost everything and I'm going to purchase 3 prego does, they all have full pedigrees and show wins and so does her buck. So now, I must pretend they don't have pedigrees and just start my own 4 generation of the info off those pedigrees using my own name ?

To me, that sounds a bit redundant - why buy expensive rabbits with pedigrees if I must start from scratch anyhows ? I read a website somewhere saying you must give breeder credits when starting your own records .. I read so many websites I dunno which one it was on.

Thanks for the OP. I'm glad this was brought up, because now when I go to my appointment to buy these rabbits tonight, I have questions to ask.

 

[A&BRabbitry]

No we are not saying that you don't use the pedigee. We are saying you shouldn't use the previous breeder's name as your selling point to perspective buyers. The animal should speak for itself.

__________ Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:18 pm __________

It's rather an issue of breeders trying to jack up their prices based on names in the pedigree when often it can be misleading. Sometimes the line of rabbits hold up to the reputation, but not always. By all means use the pedigree.

 

[skysthelimit]

If the breeding happened before I purchased the rabbit, or if I did not put those two together, the rabbits gets the breeder's name on the pedigree, and the breeder's tattoo prefix.

 

[A&BRabbitry]

If the breeding happened before I purchased the rabbit, or if I did not put those two together, the rabbits gets the breeder's name on the pedigree, and the breeder's tattoo prefix.

I agree I haveeen several remove breeders names from pedigrees. In the same token it is in the respect of previous breeders you do give them credit. My pure suggestion is not using this as a selling point or a reason to drive up the price for an unworthy rabbit.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

So then what does a new breeder to rabbits do if they buy show winner does that are prego to a show winner buck, and both the does and the buck have the breeders Rabbitry name ?

In my opinion, since the breeder arranged the pairing, the credit for those litters goes to the breeder- I would name them using the breeder's prefix unless she tells you to do otherwise. When you breed the does yourself, use your rabbitry name. I know that sounds kind of strange, especially if you are going to be breeding them to the same buck again, but I think that would be proper etiquette.

So now, I must pretend they don't have pedigrees and just start my own 4 generation of the info off those pedigrees using my own name ?

No. Name the rabbits you have bred with your rabbitry name, but the ancestry remains the same.

Lol, I see many have answered before me- at least we all agree!

 

[MKirst]

YAY I got my first pedigreed rabbits !! OK this is what the breeder said about my in particular situation concerning the OP question.

The 3 prego does I bought I can name what ever I want even my rabbitry. She also told me I can continue to show the does. The only reason she bred the does to that buck is she paired what she does have doe wise to give me reds and broken reds. So I'm taking the does to a show in October with her and she'll show me the ropes and such. That is great for me because usually I just wonder around the shows looking and not talking to anyone, now she'll be showing some rabbits and I'll take the 3 does I got from her. She said on the first day I should go and buy from the venders a 3 slot show cage and what ever else I like. She said I should buy stuff the first day and the second day show the rabbits.

She also told me when the kits are born she will come over and evaluate the kits (which ones are show quality and which ones are not) and do the tattoos.

I am so glad this is OP discussion came up before I went to my appointment, because asking these questions brought the whole conversation to a new level. Now I have a mentor and a show date. YAY !!

Anyhows, the rabbits are doing good, they were very active all night. They don't look quite like in her show pictures on the rabbitry website but after cleaned up, grow some hair back etc they will take nice pictures I think.

The only thing really is their toe nails, they are so long. I did ask her to clip them before I loaded them up but they are still long. Jill, John, Jack and Jean don't have toe nails anything like this but hopefully I can do something with these toe nails. They bother me. lol

When I get them cleaned up and some hair grows back I'll post pictures. Jane is in at her new home now.