Thinning the herd out. Which to keep and which to cull?

[MR_ND]

I have room for about 10 rabbits max. I have 7 rabbits. Two senior does, two junior does, two pre-junior does, a senior buck and I have excess to a junior buck.
These are all pedigreed Polish rabbits. I will start by naming and numbering each rabbit and what I like don't like and the general qualities about it.

Isabel #1 Weighs 2 lb 11 oz
Very typey, small Senior blue doe. Good mother, her grandfather won at one of the Polish Conventions. Having litters does seem to take a lot more out of her than my black doe. She is very shy, skittish and I suspect she will always be that way. She was not handled much until she was about a year old. She has gotten better but still isn't very friendly, she is the least friendly of all my rabbits. She does have one DQ: Her eyes are brown not blue/grey like the standard says they should be. But if bred with a rabbit that does not carry blue I get black. So the DQ isn't that big of a problem.

Uno #2 Weighs2 lb 13 oz
Broken chocolate Senior buck. The butterfly on his nose isn't as nice as I'd like it. He got a blue at the County Fair. He is a proven breeder. Him and I don't get along all that well in short terms he has come close to visiting freezer camp, but he isn't a snob, he can be obnoxious at times.

Expresso #3 Weighs 3 1/2 lbs
Black Senior doe. Bigger than I'd like she is a good mother and recovers from having litters quickly. She received BOB at the county fair. She is friendly and easy to get along with, I just wish she was a 1/2 lb smaller.

Charlotte #4 Weighs 2 lb
Broken black Junior doe. She is going to be small like her mommy Isabel. She is friendly, has a bit more whit than I'd like. She is un proven as a brood doe.

Shamrock #5 Weighs 2 lb 12 oz
Junior Black doe. She isn't quite as friendly as her sister Charlotte but still relatively friendly for a doe. I am hoping to breed her soon.

Drizela #6 Weighs 11 1/2 oz
Seven week old black doe. Out of Expresso and Uno. She's the smallest in the litter.

Anastasia #7 Weighs 1 lb
Seven week old broken chocolate doe. Out of Expresso and Uno. I am afraid she is going to be bigger like her mother.

I know the seven week olds are a bit young to be judged right now, but I want to know if I should hold on to them and see how they develop or pass them along. If I knew #6 was going to be smaller than #3 I would probably keep her for now.
I am planning on getting a solid chocolate or black buck for #4, so if I did keep #7 a buck wouldn't be a problem.



Pictures.

Tell me what you think, which should I keep or sell.
If the pictures aren't good enough I can try to get better ones, the rabbits weren't being two cooperative.

 

[JessiL]

What are your goals in keeping rabbits? Show, companions, color breeding projects, or a combo of these or other ideas? That will help us give you advice!

 

[Cedar Point Rabbitry]

It sounds to me you are trying to do show rabbits with good personality...

So I like the body on Isabelle (picture doe #1 ) She's got a nice even width and petite body. I think if posed right, she would have a good topline as well. Her ears aren't overly long or short and her face is nice. She's pretty. But for me, personality is huge. I try not to keep very skittish rabbits. But I really like her body But if her kits have better personalities then her if bred to a good buck, I definitely would consider keeping her. Actually I would keep her

Uno ( picture buck #2) If his personality is that bad, I wouldn't keep him. Period. A buck is half your herd, and more then likely, his kits will take after his personality He doesn't have an even width like Sophie and his ears are tad long for me. But he has a nice topline and head. I like his topline...smooth and well rounded.

Expresso ( picture doe #3) Sounds like a nice brood doe. Simple, trouble free, doesn't need a lot to keep going She doesn't have a even width, but is nice and wide in the hips. Ok topline, but undercut. She actually looks like a Netherland Dwarf. She would be on my 'consider selling' list, if trying to breed show rabbits. But for pet/companion rabbits, she's nice, because she's cute

Charlotte (picture doe #4) To me, she doesn't look healthy . Ok, so it looks like she has pinched hindquarters and an undercut rump. Topline isn't great. Her ears are a nice length, and her head is cute. I wouldn't keep her.

Shamrock (picture doe #5) Nice even width, nicely rounded topline. Is a bit undercut though. Ears are a nice length. I like her Bred to a good buck, her kits would be nice I like her body.

Drizela (picture doe #6) She is so cute! Nice rounded topline and head. Nice length of ears. Pretty even width. I like her Looks like a tiny ball of fluff with cute eyes

Anastasia ( picture doe #7) Really like her ear length. She's undercut. Pretty even width. Nice head. Cute


Sooo, my list would look like this

Keep:
-Isabelle
-Shamrock
-Drizela
-Maybe Anastsia

Not sure:
-Expresso

Sell:
-Charlotte
-Uno


But, I'm not very familiar with the Polish standard, since it's been awhile since I had any Polish rabbits Please take with a grain of salt

 

[MR_ND]

Thank you. I want to breed show rabbits with good temperaments.
I liked Charlotte's size so I held onto her just to see how she would develop, but I agree that she doesn't look healthy I'm not sure why. I'll mark her off to go to a pet home, she'll make an awesome pet.
Uno like you said has got to go. I guess I kept him because I hoped that he would straighten out, not going to happen.
I will hold on to both of the kits, I'm hoping Drizela keeps shaping up like she is.
I just bred Expresso and Isabel back yesterday and I bred Shamrock as well. So I'll see how Expresso's litter is like, if it's not very good I will send her down the road.
I'm going to mention this because I am still upset over it, I had a black doe almost identical to Shamrock (they were sisters), she was a little smaller and typier. But my sister left the hutch door open and she got out. I could never find a trace of her, I was so upset because she was shaping up so nice.

 

[Cedar Point Rabbitry]

Awww, that's too bad! So sorry about that

I'll mention this...Charlotte looks like she has gut problems. I used to have (bred away from it now) Netherland Dwarfs and Holland Lops that would look like her, and they would normally die at 6 weeks or between 4-6 months.(not all of them, but most of them) I would advise against a pet home, in case she has whatever ^ that sickness is. I have sadly had it happen that I sold a healthy 6/7 week old Holland, just to have it die at 3-4 months at its pet home because of the disease.

 

[MR_ND]

Awww, that's too bad! So sorry about that

I'll mention this...Charlotte looks like she has gut problems. I used to have (bred away from it now) Netherland Dwarfs and Holland Lops that would look like her, and they would normally die at 6 weeks or between 4-6 months.(not all of them, but most of them) I would advise against a pet home, in case she has whatever ^ that sickness is. I have sadly had it happen that I sold a healthy 6/7 week old Holland, just to have it die at 3-4 months at its pet home because of the disease.

This is sad. I guess I will most likely cull her then. I have space to keep her for awhile but after I run out I will cull her. Poor girl. Now I need to determine if this came from the doe or the buck. I certainly do not want to breed for this.

 

[Cedar Point Rabbitry]

The easiest way, if there is an easy way, is to breed 1 buck to all your does. And watch the litters carefully for signs of this disease. Don't treat their food or water with anything. If all litters exhibit symptoms, then it's most likely the buck. If only one or two litters have symptoms, it's most likely those does. Record keeping is important in breeding away from it.

Symptoms to watch for are:
-Rabbits looking like Charlotte (this is the most obvious sign)
-Small babies (unusually tiny)
-Babies that have very 'netherland dwarf' type heads and extremely round bodies
-Rabbits that do better with a only hay & grain diet, or with lots of dandelion greens

Symptoms do differ a bit between breeds and rabbits. But I'm afraid Charlotte probably has it. She might live, but probably always be sickly looking.

 

[MR_ND]

The easiest way, if there is an easy way, is to breed 1 buck to all your does. And watch the litters carefully for signs of this disease. Don't treat their food or water with anything. If all litters exhibit symptoms, then it's most likely the buck. If only one or two litters have symptoms, it's most likely those does. Record keeping is important in breeding away from it.

Symptoms to watch for are:
-Rabbits looking like Charlotte (this is the most obvious sign)
-Small babies (unusually tiny)
-Babies that have very 'netherland dwarf' type heads and extremely round bodies
-Rabbits that do better with a only hay & grain diet, or with lots of dandelion greens

Symptoms do differ a bit between breeds and rabbits. But I'm afraid Charlotte probably has it. She might live, but probably always be sickly looking.

I'll do that in probably April. Will this affect Charlotte, will she be in pain or be suffering?
Thanks.

 

[Cedar Point Rabbitry]

Her gut probably isn't the happiest. I found that pro-biotics on a regular basis really helped a rabbit with that disease, as did dandelions. I don't remember which pro-biotic I used though...

 

[MR_ND]

A bit of a dilemma. I put a Craigslist ad up, but removed it as soon as you mentioned the gut issue. Anyway someone saw it that was interested in her before I got it removed.
Guess who it was?
A Humane Society worker.
Her email:
Hello,

I am one of the Exotic Coordinators with the ----- County Humane Society. We are a non-profit, no kill animal rescue. I have attached a link to our website:

(I removed the link)

I was wondering if you needed help rehoming the rabbit. We would be able to take her to a veterinarian and have her possible stomach issues taken care of for no charge to you or the person adopting her. Just by looking at her pictures, she looks like she might have a health issue that is causing her to be so thin. I would be willing to take her into our program and set her into a foster home until she is healthy and adopted into a forever family. I could also update you on her progress and when she got adopted.

If you have any questions or think this would be something you want for your adorable little girl, please contact me by either replying to my email or call/text me at 000-000-0000. I have no problem proving that I am in fact working with a rescue organization and talking with you about how to help you get her to a veterinarian.

I hope you have a pleasant day and hope to hear from you,

What should I do? I've always been a bit iffy about Humane Society and the likes. And I am really nervous I do not want turned in or something equally bad, although I would love to give them a shot. Because I'm sure the rabbit would receive great care.
Not sure what Mom will say though.
I haven't responded yet, I need to do some thinking. Any suggestions?
Thank you so much!
EDIT: I have only dealt with the Humane Society twice. The first time was when I got a rabbit from the local Humane Society. They were completely clueless about rabbits (They called it black and white, when she was an agouti and white), they didn't know how to tell a buck from a doe, it was pathetic. The second time was when we turned a puppy over to a Sheltie Rescue, the puppy was the sweetest little thing, but she was blind and we have no ideal why. We wanted to give her a fair shot because she could get around great and was the sweetest little thing. The lady that took her said the eye vet said she might have had some kind of trauma when she was little that made her blind (the only trauma we could think of was be born). But later the puppy regained her sight (which was great!), of course she might lose it later in life.
I just don't trust Humane Society people, I'm afraid they are to much of animal right's people.

 

[Prisma]

Big red flag. There is no reason for a rescue or shelter to be trolling CL for animals to help and re-home. Why are they looking for animals on CL if they are already too full and over crowded to deal with incoming animals overall (rescue to rescue/shelter to shelter, if one's full why not help another idea)? I see big press release of horrible breeder plans to terminate cute friendly bunny that we saved and are now needing donations for, whether that be the case or not I do not know but all of the cases and spoof that's been floating around (and increasing) the last couple years has me always wondering. To further the problem, to me the email reads as if they are trying to "help" you get her to a vet, as if you can't do it and she is being neglected/abused and that would be the best for her. I really wish organizations for rescue/alike would spend their resources on those brought in that are really from bad situations that really need help, seeing this does not make me feel good. Personally, I would ditch the add and the person's information. I would not post any thing further and be careful how I posted any further ads, for all you know they could be targeting and not really have a good intention of any kind. Who knows how they really feel about breeders and what they might do should they feel since you couldn't provide proper vet care for 1 with a possibly terminal issue let alone any others (should they find out there are others in your care if there are any at all). Take care and be careful.

__________ Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 am __________

Deleted double post.

 

[JenerationX]

^ What RebelRose said.

What exactly is it they think they can provide that you can't? Let's say they take the rabbit to a vet and the vet can't find anything wrong with it.... they can now turn around and say that you let it become malnourished in your care and there's nothing you can do to prove otherwise. There's really not much good that can come of it. Even if they have a rabbit expert vet and they don't find you at fault, then what? They either euthanize or adopt out a special needs rabbit and hope it goes to someone that knows what they're doing. She's already with someone who has rabbit experience and wants what's best for her.

 

[MR_ND]

That's what I thought. I don't want to get bit in the rear. I just won't respond to her, because I do not want problems.

 

[SuburbanHomesteader]

A bit of a dilemma. I put a Craigslist ad up, but removed it as soon as you mentioned the gut issue. Anyway someone saw it that was interested in her before I got it removed. I just don't trust Humane Society people, I'm afraid they are to much of animal right's people.

Ditto Rebel Rose!!

If you deleted the ad, then you're done. You don't owe them a reply.

CL has done a lot to improve the way that they protect the identity of both the buyer and the seller. You should NEVER include any contact information in your CL ads. Let CL pass their inquiries on to you anonymously. Then - after you've had a chance to exchange multiple email via CL's anonymous pass-through - you can make a determination as to whether or not you want to risk direct contact.

Not sure where in KS you're located but know that the AR folks are starting early this year. Sadly, in my area and in my experience, nearly ALL of the animal shelters, "rescue" shelters, and City Animal Control departments are heavily infested with AR proponents that prescribe to the idea that if you have more than two of anything, you're a hoarder, and that all breeders are bad.

Such is the world we've come to live in.