Shopping List Suggestions?

[Bad Habit]

I'm not sure if this goes here or not, so if it's in the wrong place, please move it

You guys are probably getting sick of me already, I know, I can be annoying. But who better to learn from than a forum full of people who have so much more experience than I do?

Now, I've always prided myself on feeding high quality foods to my pets. My doggie gets nothing but the best, and I want to do the same for my rabbit, but I don't know that the quality I am currently offering is good enough.

Currently she gets about a cup to a cup and a half of veg a day - mostly a variety of 3+ leafy greens, since that's what she prefers. Since she is 4mths old, as per the internet, she has unlimited kibbles, and unlimited hay - a 50/50 mix of alfalfa and timothy.

Her Kibbles : Health Diet Rabbit Food - Guaranteed Analysis - Crude Protein(Min) 17%, Crude Fat(Min) 2.5%, Crude Fiber(max) 18%, Moisture(Max) 12%.

Her Hay : Prairie Alfalfa Hay by Pestell - Guaranteed Analysis - Crude Protein(min) 16%, Crude Fat(min) 1.5%, Crude Fiber(max) 40%, Moisture(max) 12%, Calcium 1% min 2.5% max.

Prairie Timothy Hay by Pestell - Guaranteed Analysis - Crude Protein(min) 7.5%, Crude Fat(min) 2%, Crude Fiber(max) 35%, Moisture(max) 12%, Calcium 0.25% min 0.6% max.

For her veg, she normally gets Romaine, red and green leaf lettuce, spinach, bok choy, dandelion greens, kale, alfalfa sprouts, various fresh herbs, baby carrots, tomatoes, bell peppers, and eggplant. Occasionally she will get melons, berries, apples, oranges, pears and banana as a treat, maybe once or twice a week.

Are her nutritional needs being met? If not, what would you recommend? I live in a small town, and can occasionally have issues with a limited variety of pet supplies. The hay I buy from Walmart, as I've found it's the nicest quality compared to several types of hay available at the pet stores. The kibbles I bought at the pet store; it was the only plain kibble that they had, the rest were "complete meals", such as Kaytee Fiesta feeds.

 

[akane]

Rabbits do not eat watery, high sugar vegetables. Vegetables are for city people who have no access or knowledge of how to get proper fresh rabbit food. The more natural diet of a rabbit are tough grasses, a variety of weeds we wouldn't eat, tough plants like raspberry canes, mulberry and apple branches, etc... Try the stickies in the natural feeding section. Your yard if it's unsprayed and not contaminated is a far better source of rabbit food than the grocery store and free.

Pellets should be plain pellets. No little colored bits, dried fruit, etc... Just pellets. Feed store pellets are far cheaper and most are better quality than the stuff at the pet store. I have only seen one feed store pellet I would not touch and it was one of those cheap local crap brands that are all byproducts. Any of the major brands will be better than pet store pellets except maybe something really expensive like oxbow.

Store hay is crap. Doesn't matter where you get it. Unless they just got in a new shipment of the best stuff (this is usually oxbow) it's all crap. It's better than nothing but try your local craigslist to buy a bale or even a portion of a bale and your feedstore for other sources for bales or even compressed fresh green bales. The stuff in the pet store sits around in the clear package in the sun which is horrible for hay, has no air circulation so it has to be over dried, and is of an unknown age. If all else fails you can order oxbow by bulk off many online sites and hay from kmshayloft for far more than feed store hay but much much cheaper than buying tiny bags at a time from the pestore. The shipping comes out as much as the hay but the price ends up around $1/lb when those tiny bags are like $10/lb. Of course if you go hunting in your area and learn to id good hay you can find even better stuff. We get organic clover of probably the best quality I've ever seen and I have a horse stable at $6-8/bale. A bale is 50-70lbs. In a pinch we use the compressed feed store bales which are 1/4th the size and still weigh 50lbs but they are a pain to haul around since they uncompress at inconvenient times and the pieces are small so they have to be contained once opened.

 

[Bad Habit]

Ok... so should I just not feed her veg until the snow's gone and only feed her hay and pellets? And what of the fact that my back yard is my dog's bathroom? I remember when I had guineas they cautioned against feeding any grass that might have been soiled by dog waste. As well, there are loads of wild rabbits around, would I not then risk bringing something in to my bunny that could make her sick?

I thought about buying hay at the horse feed store, however I don't have anywhere to store it where it wouldn't go moldy, and as I don't drive, it would probably be frowned upon for me to bring it home on public transit.

 

[Miss M]

You guys are probably getting sick of me already, I know, I can be annoying.

Hey, how can we be sick of you already when you only have seven posts?

It is true that rabbits are not vegetarians, but rather herbivores. Vegetables and fruits should both be used as treats. Now, at least in this forum, we tend to differentiate between greens and vegetables. Greens are great bunny food! Vegetables would be the carrots, tomatoes, bell peppers, eggplant, radishes, etc. Greens would be the lettuces (except iceberg, which has too high a water content), spinach, bok choy, dandelion greens, kale, alfalfa sprouts, and fresh herbs.

Tomatoes, bell peppers, and eggplants are all from the Nightshade family. The leaves and stems are poisonous, and cannot be fed.

Be careful with the Brassicas -- cabbage, Brussels sprouts, kale, bok choy, broccoli, etc. They can be fed, but need to be introduced in small amounts and slowly built up. They can cause gas, which, since rabbits can neither pass gas nor burp (they can't even vomit), can actually be deadly. As long as you slowly increase them, you can successfully feed these foods to your rabbit. You will have a few rabbits that cannot tolerate it no matter what, but as long as the poops and urine continue to look normal, and your bun acts normal, it's okay.

The kibble and alfalfa are pretty much mutually exclusive if you are free-feeding them. They are both high in protein, and, while your bun needs enough protein, it can get too much. If you want to give a little kibble, a couple ounces a day, and then the alfalfa/timothy hay free feed, I'd think that would be okay. You may also be able to drop the kibble and free feed the alfalfa/timothy, but that would be a question for the natural feeders on here. You could also continue to feed the kibble, and switch to an alfalfa-free hay (timothy, or coastal Bermuda grass, etc.).

Some rabbits can be free-fed pellets with no problem, because they self-regulate, and don't eat more than they need. Others don't self-regulate, and will eat and eat and eat, and get fat. You can determine whether your bun can be trusted with food by running your hand down her back, feeling her spine. If you feel gentle, rolling bumps, she's the right weight. If you feel like you're petting a stegosaurus (spiky), she's skinny. If you can't feel the spine, she's fat. Pretty easy. I have one rabbit that does not self-regulate, and cannot be trusted with more than a measured amount of food, unless she is pregnant or nursing. It is the plain kibble that you want, because the ones with all the little colored pieces usually have a lot of corn in them, and that is like feeding your bunny Twinkies.

I don't know about using your yard for bunny food with the dog going to the bathroom back there. I'd be hesitant. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable will post about it.

Do you know anyone who could take you to a feed store? It is true that you could get better quality pellets there, and pay much less for hay.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Be careful with the Brassicas -- cabbage, Brussels sprouts, kale, bok choy, broccoli, etc. They can be fed, but need to be introduced in small amounts and slowly built up. They can cause gas, which, since rabbits can neither pass gas nor burp (they can't even vomit), can actually be deadly.

I am going to offer one small correction to this....rabbits CAN and DO pass gas. But, they CANNOT burp or vomit.

 

[SatinsRule]

As has already been stated, a local feed store is the BEST place to buy feed for your rabbits. You'll pay less for it and get feed which is better quality and will work better for your rabbits than the pet store stuff ever will. In comparison, feed store products are like balanced 4-course meals. Pet shop feeds are like Big Mac value meals.

I use the large bags of timothy hay from Wal Mart, and it's convenient for me as I cannot even come close to using a whole bale before it starts to mold. It's been very important to curing up cases of scours, as well as keeping up apetites on rabbits which won't eat regularly when they begin to moult.

Veggies and starches should normally be fed only as periodic treats, but not as a primary food source. An occasional grain supplement is a better routine food choice and will do wonders for keeping them "regular" (Old Fashioned Rolled Oats are GREAT for this).

 

[Jana15]

You could also continue to feed the kibble, and switch to an alfalfa-free hay (timothy, or coastal Bermuda grass, etc.).

You can feed coastal bermuda grass to rabbits? Bermuda grass is such a NUISANCE here! Takes up the whole front yard, you cut it today, and its back tomorow! Tons of bermude grass hay cheap at the feed stores and the "Market Bulletin" to! Whoopee!

 

[Secuono]

Do you have a front yard or a local park/school etc you can pull grass and weeds from? You can grow some weeds in a planter or fence off a small area of the dog's yard w/solid fencing so you can use it for the rabbit.

 

[Miss M]

I am going to offer one small correction to this....rabbits CAN and DO pass gas. But, they CANNOT burp or vomit.

Oh, okay... I could have sworn I read over and over that they couldn't pass gas, either. I wondered why not... it didn't seem to make sense. Thanks!

You can feed coastal bermuda grass to rabbits? Bermuda grass is such a NUISANCE here! Takes up the whole front yard, you cut it today, and its back tomorow! Tons of bermude grass hay cheap at the feed stores and the "Market Bulletin" to! Whoopee!

Yes, you can! When I lived in Florida, we fed coastal Bermuda grass hay, and here, it's Alicia coastal Bermuda grass hay! I don't know what Alicia has to do with it... maybe she has a magic wand that makes it taste better or something. :lol:

You can actually feed most grasses to rabbits. Make sure you know what kind of grass you have, and whether rabbits can eat it or not. Most of our yard is St. Augustine grass, which is a mediocre-quality forage, but rabbits can still eat it. So... when it stays dry for a few days after the grass is cut, I go out and gather it for hay! I don't have a dog, though... maybe you can do that with the grass from your front yard? As long as you don't have the yard everybody lets their dogs do their business on. And not clean it up. :angry: I'll catch them one of these days...

The kids will gather long St. Augustine and feed it to the buns fresh. They love it! They like it pretty well as hay, too. Our yard doesn't produce enough, though, so they get mostly coastal Bermuda grass hay.

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Yup, I feed Coastal Bermuda too. The rabbits like it!

 

[Bad Habit]

I have no front yard so to speak, and the back yard is very tiny. I do have an area of grass in a raised flowerbed that I planted for my guineas, and never completely irradicated. My mum has also promised me all the dandelions I can pull out of her garden/grass, and a row in her garden in which to plant lettuces. I'll have to see what other weeds are ok for bunnies, and see what can be harvested from either her yard, or mine. I'm also going to be culling out some of my houseplants in the near future to make some room for herbs/cat grass in the windows.

While it may be better quality, I won't be getting hay from a feed store, simply because of the storage issues and mold aspect. Though it is more expense, the hay I am feeding is far more practical - it takes about a month to get through the two bags. I'll soon start cutting back on the alfalfa, and increase the timothy. I also know of a few place that I can possibly gather grass in the spring/summer, provided that the practices of the town haven't changed - they don't usually cut/treat the grass on the riverbank, since it's such a steep incline. Should I dry the grass or offer it green?

I didn't realize I could feed raspberry cane, does it matter what type? My mum has a raspberry patch in her yard, but I have no idea what variety it would be... She's had it for as long as I can remember, and originally it came from her mother in law, and I don't know if they'd remember what variety it is either. I'll have to ask, and see if I can start clipping it down. The leaves are ok too, yes? They'll be a little frozen, probably not very tasty. What other things do you need to do to prepare the raspberry for the bunny. I also intend to clip some apple branches for her, but again, I'm sure they'd be more enjoyable in the spring when there are buds/leaves for her to munch. The apple tree is in my yard, and is a macintosh.

As far as veg goes, I include all the greens and actual veg in that. She doesn't get a ton of it, as I said she far prefers the leafy greens, but she does like the rest on occasion. I will have to look into getting kibbles from the feed store. I also know that I can get kibbles at the bulk store, but have no idea what quality they are. I'll grab one of the analysis cards next time I'm there and compare the stuff I have to that, and go from there.

I do know better than to feed the "complete" feeds, as it was the same with guineas. I didn't like how the pet store pushed it, and told me that I'd be able to feed just that "with the occasional bit of hay", and I told the girl that straight up. I am well respected at the pet store, as I often help them socialize their ferrets, and end up going there several time a week. (my dog's not spoiled, really!)

The grass in my yard is a mix called "shade mix". I think I still have some seed left, I'll check and see what all is in it when the snow melts enough to get at the shed. There's also a healthy patch of crabgrass, and a bunch of plantain lilies as well.

ETA Wow, stumbled upon the safe plant list... bookmarking that for sure! Loads of stuff there that my mum has in her garden, and a lot of it is stuff that I spend hours helping her pull out! Loads of it I wouldn't have expected, and I'll have to do further research, but for once I'm actually excited for the upcoming weeding season! Plus, my mum and I have a booth at the local market, and the vendors are super nice, so I should be able to get their "cast offs" come produce season. I know they didn't have a problem doing this when I had the guineas, so don't think they'll have an issue with it this summer.

ETA again - The list says roses, is this just commercial produced roses, or wild roses, or both? I have a wild rose bush in my front garden that's coming out this spring, and could get her some now to chew on with no issue at all.