Rex does losing condition

[MuddyFarms]

I am hoping to run this plan by you guys to see if I am on the right track or if you have any ideas.

I have Rex rabbits, and am having a difficult time keeping condition on the breeding does. They produce large litters and nurse heavily. I have taken to feeding them rolled oats and BOSS morning and evening to try to offset their nursing, but it isn’t helping them regain condition as far as I can see. The growing replacement does have dense fur and beautiful condition, perhaps a little too much.

I have been feeding Purina Professional, which they all really like. Any other brand I try mixing in they scratch out and refuse to eat. I guess that is because the Purina was formulated to be extra palatable. The Purina Professional feed is supposed to provide enough for does to have 8 litters/year. Doesn’t seem to work for mine, although the kits grow like crazy on it! I have been doing a 6-week rebreeding date most of the time, but it looks like I will need to increase that time quite a bit. I am also wondering if they will lose more condition in the winter cold we have now.

I am thinking they must be needing a higher fat percentage? I am considering mixing in the Purina Show feed for the breeding does to see if that would help. It has higher fat but lower protein. Does that seem like a decent trade-off, though?

They also seem to be getting too much calcium, but I think I need to address the condition issue first.


Purina Professional: Crude protein- 18%; Crude fat- 1.40%; Crude fiber (min)- 14.50%; Crude fiber (max) 18.50%; Calcium (min)- 0.65%; Calcium (max)- 1.15%.

Purina Show: Crude protein- 16%; Crude fat- 3.50%; Crude fiber (min)- 18.5%; Crude fiber (max)- 21.50%; Calcium (min)- 0.70%; Calcium (max)- 1.20%.


I appreciate any ideas you guys have!

 

[eco2pia]

Hmm. I hope someone will have more info for you, because all my related experience comes from calves and goats, but in my experience some nursing moms just seem built to pass everything to the offspring--feed them more and the milk just gets richer and more copious, while they stay skinny.

I think my response would be to slow the breeding down a little, give them a longer break, and consider weaning a week or so earlier. Likely the kits can handle it if they have been fed enough to be fat. You could also try restricting how often the kits are with mom, so that they are not being overfed and see if that tapers her milk production any.

The BOSS should be the extra fat already. Are you free feeding all this, or is there a ration? Because they should probably have an allyou can eat buffet in front of them at all times, at least pellets.

I think this is something you can breed away from...but for these moms you just are not going to be able to push them quite so hard?

 

[MuddyFarms]

Thanks for your reply! I am still learning this stocks' abilities and tendencies.

Yeah, they definitely seem to pass it all to the babies- the kits always have huge bellies and grow very fast. The does don't know when to stop nursing, and it doesn't matter if they have 8 or 13 kits, either! I will go ahead and wean them earlier; that's something I was leaning towards, so I am glad you mentioned it. I think I have been mostly weaning over a week's time starting at 6 weeks. I guess I will need to start that process at 5 weeks now. Especially with the litter of 13!

How do you think I could restrict the kits' access?

I do free-feed the high-protein pellets and have been adding on the BOSS and oats to try to help them not pull so much from themselves. With the longer time between litters, should I discontinue the BOSS and oats once they don't have kits with them? Should they still be on full-feed at that point? I am wondering if they will gain their condition back without gaining too much internal fat okay.

 

[Ducklove74]

I would not decrease protein for nursing doe....especially if losing condition..you're already adding fat with the BOSS.. My rex mom's are usually starting to wean by 4 weeks, sometimes earlier, so if yours are waiting until 6 weeks this could be part of problem as well..I would however extend time between breeding if they are losing considerable condition..let her get back up to par before rebreeding..some does seem to just expend much more than others through the breeding, kindling, weaning process and some it doesn't seem to take much out of them at all. That being said, a doe that is being used as a continual breeder will not have the condition a show table rabbit has...as with any animal pregnancy, childbirth, and raising young takes from mother this is nature. Trick is to keep this drain to a minimum..Do these does bounce back quickly after the kits are gone?

 

[MuddyFarms]

That all makes sense.

The does nurse for as long as I let them! Most of them are very patient with their kits. Do you think weaning them at 5 weeks is what I should try? I have been doing it over a weeks time to try to let the does dry up gradually since they produce so much milk. The kits are eating very well by 4 weeks, I have just been concerned about stressing them by moving them that early.

The does do improve some by the time they have their next litter, but then they just start getting drained again. I keep an eye on their weights, fur, and spine. They just don't have much on their spine and their fur is dull. I always want them to be at their normal weight before rebreeding them. How should I tell with Rex that their condition is good for rebreeding? I am not familiar with what is acceptable/good on how they should look as regular breeders.

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Ducklove74]

I wouldn't remove kits from mom until they are least 6 to 7 weeks...it may stress them too much. That being said I've had a doe that needed to be separated from her kits before that due to extreme loss in condition. I did rebreed her once more after getting her fully up to weight. She did ok, but it always takes a lot more out of her than the rest of my girls...for this reason I only breed her maybe 2x a year allowing her to regain what she lost. I would not breed her at all but she carries a recessive gene I'm working with that my male also carries. Hopefully soon I will be replacing her with one of the offspring. I think that some buns like some people handle pregnancy, birthing and caring for young better than others.

 

[MuddyFarms]

Those are good points; thank you! I have been having better success with my second generation does keeping condition, so far. I am giving them a lot more BOSS and oats to help since that feed is so low in fat. I think the main issue for those first ones was that low-fat feed not giving them what they needed. I am glad I decided to keep some good second gen does as early as I did, because I am not out of production while giving the first ones good breaks. They have some recessives I would like to capture, as well!

 

[MnCanary]

I wonder if a study has been done on what wild European rabbits eat. That is, our rabbits in the wild, Oryctolagus cuniculus. My guess is that they don't get much fat, especially in the spring and summer when there aren't many plants with seeds. (assuming that seeds that wild rabbits eat would have some fat in them).

Not that we should model our nutrition programs on wild rabbits. They lead a rough life.

 

[HTAcres]

My first litter of Rex is 2 weeks old. I thought my Tamuks and Americans were good mothers but this Rex doe is a step above. So protective without being mean, keeps her kits in the box or in the pile somehow and must be producing loads of rich milk because the 10 kits are growing like weeds. And only one slightly smaller one.

Anyhow, just one little tidbit. My mom supplement is oats, BOSS and Calf Manna in thirds. This doe really goes at it. Most like it but she definitely does. So far her condition is good but this is only her first litter. I am glad that I read this thread.

 

[MuddyFarms]

My first litter of Rex is 2 weeks old. I thought my Tamuks and Americans were good mothers but this Rex doe is a step above. So protective without being mean, keeps her kits in the box or in the pile somehow and must be producing loads of rich milk because the 10 kits are growing like weeds. And only one slightly smaller one.

Anyhow, just one little tidbit. My mom supplement is oats, BOSS and Calf Manna in thirds. This doe really goes at it. Most like it but she definitely does. So far her condition is good but this is only her first litter. I am glad that I read this thread.

Isn't it amazing how much the Rex does go after the supplements?! Mine act like they are starving until I give it to them and they have had what they want. They really give a lot to those kits. I have had does with 13 kits and does with 6 or 8 and they almost always have very full bellies. You never have to question if they are being fed! It is super cute, and the kits grow so fast because of it, but we definitely have to keep an eye on the does condition. Now that I know about how much these does can wear themselves out with the nursing, I am not concerned about giving them too much of the supplements. Thanks for mentioning your experience with your Rex doe! Always helpful to have comparison points.

 

[HTAcres]

Isn't it amazing how much the Rex does go after the supplements?! Mine act like they are starving until I give it to them and they have had what they want. They really give a lot to those kits. I have had does with 13 kits and does with 6 or 8 and they almost always have very full bellies. You never have to question if they are being fed! It is super cute, and the kits grow so fast because of it, but we definitely have to keep an eye on the does condition. Now that I know about how much these does can wear themselves out with the nursing, I am not concerned about giving them too much of the supplements. Thanks for mentioning your experience with your Rex doe! Always helpful to have comparison points.

Because of the other types of rabbits we have, my daughter and I thought the Rex looked weird. We got this pair in a buy where a lady had to offload everything fast and I wanted that trio of Americans. But hubby absolutely feel in love with the castor buck. The doe is blue. I must say that my impression has gained lots of favorable points watching her mother.

You know, if my other rabbits had the folds that my Rex does, they would be fat. I have to keep that in mind assessing her condition. Very different look.

 

[MuddyFarms]

Because of the other types of rabbits we have, my daughter and I thought the Rex looked weird. We got this pair in a buy where a lady had to offload everything fast and I wanted that trio of Americans. But hubby absolutely feel in love with the castor buck. The doe is blue. I must say that my impression has gained lots of favorable points watching her mother.

You know, if my other rabbits had the folds that my Rex does, they would be fat. I have to keep that in mind assessing her condition. Very different look.

Definitely a different look! I used to raise Californians and they were sleek and smooth all over. With the Rex, it is so funny to see even the bucks with their little skirts. And sometimes the kits get the skirts going, too.

How have your Americans been? I was looking into that breed before I got the Rex.

 

[HTAcres]

Definitely a different look! I used to raise Californians and they were sleek and smooth all over. With the Rex, it is so funny to see even the bucks with their little skirts. And sometimes the kits get the skirts going, too.

How have your Americans been? I was looking into that breed before I got the Rex.

So far I love my Americans. Now my first litters on the two does were not huge - each had six - but I lost a Tamuk doe that kindling and they readily accepted half of her kits and did great. I am hoping they will do okay in the heat with their mandolin body shape. The does are sweet. The buck not so much but I think he did not adapt well to previous situation which was inside with kids and dogs. He is getting nicer the longer we have him.

 

[MuddyFarms]

So far I love my Americans. Now my first litters on the two does were not huge - each had six - but I lost a Tamuk doe that kindling and they readily accepted half of her kits and did great. I am hoping they will do okay in the heat with their mandolin body shape. The does are sweet. The buck not so much but I think he did not adapt well to previous situation which was inside with kids and dogs. He is getting nicer the longer we have him.

Awww! Those are some pretty rabbits and kits. It's great they were happy to foster other kits, too.

 

[RabbitsOfTheCreek]

So far I love my Americans. Now my first litters on the two does were not huge - each had six - but I lost a Tamuk doe that kindling and they readily accepted half of her kits and did great. I am hoping they will do okay in the heat with their mandolin body shape. The does are sweet. The buck not so much but I think he did not adapt well to previous situation which was inside with kids and dogs. He is getting nicer the longer we have him.

That mom looks so done with her kits lol

 

[MuddyFarms]

I wonder if a study has been done on what wild European rabbits eat. That is, our rabbits in the wild, Oryctolagus cuniculus. My guess is that they don't get much fat, especially in the spring and summer when there aren't many plants with seeds. (assuming that seeds that wild rabbits eat would have some fat in them).

Not that we should model our nutrition programs on wild rabbits. They lead a rough life.

This article was shared with me recently. It states that willow has healthy fats in it. I really wish the authors would have included references or details on that, as I am having a tough time finding anything more reputable about it elsewhere. Feedipedia has info on Weeping Willow (Salix Babylonica), but they do not include a fat percentage in the chart. Still looking into this kind of thing; fat in the diet is an interesting topic. If anyone knows of resources about any of this, I would be interested in them!


https://bornforpets.com/2021/10/07/can-rabbits-eat-willow/