Refurbishing the Rabbitry (and why NOT to use Bass J-clips)

[Miss M]

A lot of work this week has gone into preparing for today. While the menfolk have been off at work, we (my mom, the kids, and I) were working on cages and doing a thorough rabbitry cleaning.

I will say that I figured we'd get more than a year and a half out of the rabbitry before it would need an overhaul. But we have learned a few things.

1. Don't use corrugated waste chutes, especially corrugated tin, if you do not have much clearance between the chutes and the bottoms of the cages. If you do, you will not be able to clean them well at all. If you use tin, it will rust quickly anywhere you are unable to clear the bunny berries that get regular doses of urine.

2. Don't use 16-gauge floors. They bow between J-clips, and the whole floor bows, giving you even less cleaning clearance. We even had one wire break. We didn't have problems just in growout cages, but even in the buck's cage. It's just not strong enough, unless maybe you're raising dwarf rabbits.

3. Don't have your top gutter come to the middle to drain. It makes reaching the cage below potentially very unpleasant.

4. Don't use regular Bass J-clips. We ordered our cages from Bass (oddly, 14 gauge sides and top, 16 gauge floors -- still trying to figure that one out), and they came with J-clips, which we used to assemble the cages. These clips are way too weak. They would fail occasionally, and we once had a bun get loose because three of them failed. She could have gotten hurt, or it could have happened with a litter of babies in the cage. If the clip is weak enough for a 10-year-old with a pair of pliers to yank off in less than ten seconds, you need stronger clips.

5. Once you have good J-clips, you will suddenly find you want a better J-clip tool, and you will suddenly realize why you need a set of J-clip removal pliers.

SO...

We pulled out all the 16-gauge floors. ILoveBunnies and Bunny-Wan Kenobi were responsible for this. Once ILoveBunnies began putting a new floor on Pinto's cage with the new, hefty stainless steel J-clips from Klubertanz (very impressive things), all floor removal went to Bunny-Wan Kenobi.

I had heard on here about the nightmare of removing J-clips... that it was nigh unto impossible without the special removal pliers. I wasn't sure why it should be so hard. Sure enough, I set the kids up with an array of tools to choose from, and within just a few minutes, they had perfected a fast removal technique. What was all the fuss about? Were my kids really putting to shame a forum full of experienced cage-building adults? It sure seemed like it.

Rotate clip:

Approach clip end:

Grab clip end and pull back:

Pull, twist if needed:

Done:

Both of the kids could do it in less than 10 seconds. Once Pinto's cage had the floor off, ILoveBunnies started putting the new one on. Suddenly, it was very clear why all the talk about J-clips being such a pain! These things were strong!!! Now it was abundantly clear that the regular Bass clips were not desirable at all in cage flooring.

16 gauge wire vs. 14 gauge wire:

New chutes and gutters; you can see where I've done some caulking:

The chutes are 10mm Coroplast corrugated plastic sheeting. I bought it at a sign making shop for $26 per 4'x8' sheet, and I bought three sheets. They cut them in half for me, so I could get it into my trunk.

The gutter is vinyl. The V-shaped flashing is actually more vinyl gutter, but with the front cut off. The gutter bottom goes under the chute, and the gutter back is what you see extending up to guide the waste away from the wood.

Other end, which drains into a bucket; no caulk done yet:

Meanwhile, ILoveBunnies cuts the old floors into baby-saver wire strips (then realizes she's cutting 3", instead of 4"):

Bunny-Wan Kenobi bends over the baby-saver wire where it goes below the door, so we won't cut ourselves to ribbons:

ILoveBunnies applied the babysaver wire with the... drum roll please... old unused Bass clips!

Fluffy and Nibbles settle in after the day's upheaval (new babysaver in front):

Fluffy gives me a quizzical look:

Squeak checks out the new chute, then reminds me to clip her nails (new babysaver in back):

Pinto doesn't care about the chute, he's checking the camera out:

This coming week, we will finish the babysaver wire and put in the floor supports/spreaders. Next weekend, we will install the last part of the chute on the bottom level, and complete the bottom gutter.

 

[curlysue]

I prefer the rings over the clips.I call them hog rings but they are smaller than actual hog rings.

 

[SatinsRule]

Looks like a pretty awesome job.

Sorry to hear about the trouble with Bass j-clips. I've used them on several of my cages and haven't experienced as much, but now I have something else to keep on the lookout for.

 

[seagullplayer]

I have been known to strengthen my bottom cage wire with a bit of cloths line cable when hanging a big cage. You J-clip it to the wire and there is nothing for poo to catch on.

Looks like you got great help!

 

[MaggieJ]

You guys sure have been busy! Thanks for documenting the upgrades with such great pictures. The comparison of 14 gauge and 16 gauge floor wire is especially helpful to people new to cage building. :goodjob:

 

[hoodat]

Cage refurbishing aside it seems your kids are learning both resposibility and good work ethics. Congratulations. Those qualities will serve them well throughout their lives.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Great job, and kudos to your fine team of helpers!

When I redo our rabbitry I plan to wrap metal flashing on the exposed 4" x 4"s as urine guards, and also from the ground up to the first tier of cages to prevent rodents from climbing the wood.

Currently I have corrugated plastic panels as dropping boards which is working well, but I would like to drop them down further below the cages- they will barely have any slope at all, but I have found that the bunny berries don't roll down anyway and need to be pushed, so having more clearance will be a small price to pay for having to scrape daily which I do anyway. It will also give me access to scrub the boards, which is impossible right now. Occasionally I miss a day and the rabbits that have their potty corner at the high side of the boards end up with poop above the floor wire. I am eager to see how your coroplast panels hold up- will they develop a "wave" or buckling?

I plan to order the Klubertanz J clips, even though I haven't had any problems with the BASS clips. I made sure to clamp them super tight, sometimes rotating them and clamping a second time to get good contact with the cage wire. I also spaced them closely together- they are at 2" intervals (3 open spaces between clips), and that helps to keep the floor from sagging. I am nearing the one year mark, and most of the cages have not been in use that long since I started with 4 animals and grew the herd from them. We'll see how mine are holding up come October (my year and a half mark)- especially the doe cages, which have the most stress from carrying the weight of litters.

Who did you order your new floor wire from? I would like to build some custom sized cages, so plan on buying floor and side wire soon.

Thanks for the great report, Miss M! Be sure to tell your mom and ILoveBunnies and Bunny-wan Kenobi how impressed I am by their helpfulness! Make sure to post pics once you have completed the rabbitry overhaul!

 

[Miss M]

Thank y'all so much!

You guys sure have been busy! Thanks for documenting the upgrades with such great pictures. The comparison of 14 gauge and 16 gauge floor wire is especially helpful to people new to cage building. :goodjob:

I want to take a clearer one, as I think neither the terrycloth nor the cement made a good background for clarity.

Cage refurbishing aside it seems your kids are learning both resposibility and good work ethics. Congratulations. Those qualities will serve them well throughout their lives.

I hope so... they can do their share of complaining and putzing, but when I push them, they do rise to the occasion. They were so very needed on this project, and (though I occasionally had to get them back on task) they really helped get things done!

Great job, and kudos to your fine team of helpers!

When I redo our rabbitry I plan to wrap metal flashing on the exposed 4" x 4"s as urine guards, and also from the ground up to the first tier of cages to prevent rodents from climbing the wood.

Currently I have corrugated plastic panels as dropping boards which is working well, but I would like to drop them down further below the cages- they will barely have any slope at all, but I have found that the bunny berries don't roll down anyway and need to be pushed, so having more clearance will be a small price to pay for having to scrape daily which I do anyway. It will also give me access to scrub the boards, which is impossible right now. Occasionally I miss a day and the rabbits that have their potty corner at the high side of the boards end up with poop above the floor wire. I am eager to see how your coroplast panels hold up- will they develop a "wave" or buckling?

I plan to order the Klubertanz J clips, even though I haven't had any problems with the BASS clips. I made sure to clamp them super tight, sometimes rotating them and clamping a second time to get good contact with the cage wire. I also spaced them closely together- they are at 2" intervals (3 open spaces between clips), and that helps to keep the floor from sagging. I am nearing the one year mark, and most of the cages have not been in use that long since I started with 4 animals and grew the herd from them. We'll see how mine are holding up come October (my year and a half mark)- especially the doe cages, which have the most stress from carrying the weight of litters.

Who did you order your new floor wire from? I would like to build some custom sized cages, so plan on buying floor and side wire soon.

Thanks for the great report, Miss M! Be sure to tell your mom and ILoveBunnies and Bunny-wan Kenobi how impressed I am by their helpfulness! Make sure to post pics once you have completed the rabbitry overhaul!

Instead of metal flashing for urine guards, I would strongly recommend vinyl or some sort of plastic. They don't make flashing in those materials, I don't think, so you have to come up with something (like the gutter we used for flashing). If those 4x4s get any regular doses of urine, I don't think the metal flashing will last more than a couple of years.

I am really hoping that, with regular cleaning, the Coroplast won't have any sagging issues. That's why we got the 10mm stuff. Hopefully, it can hold itself up over time as long as it doesn't have to hold weight.

We didn't start having trouble with the J-clips until about a year and a half, when we started having them break or open up here and there. The instructions said to put them on every six inches, but Shay put them on about every 5. We put the new ones on every 4.

I got the new clips, floors, and floor spreaders from Klubertanz. I bought floor panels rather than a roll of wire because I would have had to get Shay to do all of the wire cutting (I can't cut 14 gauge wire that well), and I didn't want to take the time to grind the edges. I wanted to be ready to go when it arrived. Unfortunately, the weather didn't cooperate. :roll:

I'll be showing all your comments to the kids, so they can see all your encouraging words and kudos!

__________ Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:42 pm __________

BY THE WAY... A QUESTION:

I wrote Klubertanz about the floor supports:

Hello! There are no installation instructions for these supports.

Am I correct that they are installed like this:

With the U opening downward, slide the end tabs up through the floor, inside the floor edge.
Curl the tabs outward, around the bottom edge of the cage side.
Fold the tabs up under the U.

This should be it?

This is what I got back:

The picture in the catalog on page 18 is upside down.

Thus, the opening of the "U" channel is on the bottom and the solid top of the channel is tight to the underside of the wire cage floor.

The tab at each end of the channel is bent up, over, and crimped tight to the top of the wire floor.

Of course, I had already figured the picture was upside down, as it would make zero sense to install it that way. :lol:

But folding them around and clamping them down to the top of the floor?

Is this truly the best way to do it? I honestly thought folding them down and under was the way to go. Maybe my way wouldn't hold the support up as tightly, or it would put stress on the wire where it was connected?

I got supports for all the cages but Thumper's, which isn't in much danger of sagging. I even got them for the 24"x30" growout cages, because of the weight they hold.

 

[skysthelimit]

You could make a really neat book on cage construction, the picts are really nice.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I think they recommend flipping it up and over the wire because it may stress the wire forcing the ends through, plus you would only have it around the very last wire. By bending up and over you will have more welds supporting it. But it wont be as sanitary that way. Not really a big deal since a quick swipe with a brush will take care of any buildup.

 

[Miss M]

You could make a really neat book on cage construction, the picts are really nice.

Thanks!

I think they recommend flipping it up and over the wire because it may stress the wire forcing the ends through, plus you would only have it around the very last wire. By bending up and over you will have more welds supporting it. But it wont be as sanitary that way. Not really a big deal since a quick swipe with a brush will take care of any buildup.

I was going to go around both wires either way. Here's an illustration:



The top picture is their instructions, and the bottom is what I was expecting. I go around both wires either way, but maybe mine causes too much stress.

Hopefully it doesn't gather too much gunk their way.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Is the tab long enough to be bent up and around a side wire? That would eliminate the waste issue.<br /><br />__________ Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:55 pm __________<br /><br />Thanks for the tip about the metal flashing getting destroyed by urine. I will try to find an alternative. Maybe marine polyurethane as akane suggests.

 

[Miss M]

Is the tab long enough to be bent up and around a side wire? That would eliminate the waste issue.

__________ Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:55 pm __________

Thanks for the tip about the metal flashing getting destroyed by urine. I will try to find an alternative. Maybe marine polyurethane as akane suggests.

You know, I guess I'd better take a good look at it and see if it actually is long enough to do that. :?

That is interesting about the marine polyurethane, too. I'll have to file that away for possible future use. It does basically create a plastic surface on the wood.

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Since the urethane needs to cure before the rabbits start peeing on it, it might not be an option for me, but I can probably find some plastic. I'd prefer not to have any seams on the "danger side", but I can always caulk like you did.

I also appreciate knowing you can order custom cut wire panels. That will come in handy.

 

[Miss M]

I think the only ways you could avoid having a seam would be to use linoleum or formica, bonding it to some stiff base. Caulking's probably easier, but hey, if you got a roll of linoleum for next to nothing, it'd certainly work!

 

[OneAcreFarm]

Miss M,

What a great post! Very informative. Good call on ordering that 14g wire precut...I could not use my hands much for DAYS after building 5 cages from scratch with rolls of 14g Wire. LOL

Yeah, those JClips from Klubertanz are heavy duty for sure....you really DO need that crazy remover tool to get them off.

I used PolyWall in my rabbitry, as I could not find the Coroplast. It works well also. You can get it at Home Depot for $18 for a 4x8 sheet. It is not stiff, so we had to build a pvc frame for the slant boards. If you have enough of a slant, the poo DOES roll off. We also used the Polywall on walls and such, so maybe that is an option for you, MSD?

 

[MamaSheepdog]

I'll look into the polywall. I don't know how you manage to get enough slant without sacrificing access to the top tier. I already need a step-stool to reach the back of a 30" cage. :? Maybe I need to grow a few inches. :roll:

 

[Miss M]

Yeah, the poo is rolling down the Coroplast, too! Not all of it is making it to the gutter, but there are no poo piles forming! The incline is the same as the corrugated tin. I think it's a 4" drop over 3'. Maybe it's more; I don't remember.

I need to grow a few inches too, MamaSheepdog... If I don't, I don't know what I'm going to do when ILoveBunnies finds a young man who sweeps her off her feet and out of the house.... :lol:

 

[OneAcreFarm]

I'll look into the polywall. I don't know how you manage to get enough slant without sacrificing access to the top tier. I already need a step-stool to reach the back of a 30" cage. :? Maybe I need to grow a few inches. :roll:

That is easy, silly! I only have one row of cages....

 

[MamaSheepdog]

Wanted: more linear feet for rabbits. Will pay top dollar.

If you only have one tier, why do you use them at all? I don't have any under my bottom tier- I just rake it out with the center pile.