Reds/Fawns/Ermines-Frosties

[hucklekree]

Hello everyone!

I have had quite a few new popples born lately and a few have stumped me on color. Particularly when it comes to the c-locus.

So here's the background:

I bred a fawn/apricot colored buck to a broken black doe and got four ermine/frosties out of the lot and no reds/fawns. I'm scratching my head because this just doesn't work the way I understand my rabbits colors. So back to the drawing board I went last night and now this is what I have:

So far as I know the fawn must be:
AaBBC_Ddee

The broken black must be: ( but I reserve the right to be wrong on both or either!)
aaBb_cDdEe

Now the fact that I even got a fawn buck out of my stock is amazing to me because his dad is a broken blue and his mother was solid black. They are/were both first gen for me and mutts to boot so I have no idea about either's color background.

First question is can a fawn come from two selfs?

Second question can a fawn carry c(chd/chl) and still be fawn?

Third question could my broken black have c(chd) in the first allele slot and still be, for all intents and purposes, a dark black?

Input and answers are greatly appreciated!

 

[Zass]

All you need for a fawn is two copies of non-extension (ee) , so long as both parents have E e you can get it.

Oh wait. Fawn is A_ and requires C_, the second gene on that allele could be anything recessive to C.

One of those selfs is not a self. Probably a steel. Not necessarily a super steel (Es Es)either, no matter what some websites say. Es e can also look like a self. (among other combinations)

For frosty/ermine color you would need e e and cchd paired with anything recessive to it, and agouti A_.
(OK, I'll admit, I do not know much about cchl or ch, but do I know the order of dominance)

Reworded.
cchd is dominant to everything on that allele except C, so paired with anything less you can get visual chinchilla color. cchd c for example will make a visual chinchilla, or if paired with non-extension, a frosty.

I hope that's coherent, but if not, I'm sure dood and akane can add some clarity (and correct any mistakes I might have made )

 

[akane]

Are you sure the broken blue wasn't broken opal? It makes more sense if we are dealing with self chins as one or both blacks and the fawn from an opal than steels.

 

[hucklekree]

All you need for a fawn is two copies of non-extension (ee) , so long as both parents have E e you can get it.

Oh wait. Fawn is A_ and requires C_, the second gene on that allele could be anything recessive to C.

One of those selfs is not a self. Probably a steel. Not necessarily a super steel (Es Es)either, no matter what some websites say. Es e can also look like a self. (among other combinations)

For frosty/ermine color you would need e e and cchd paired with anything recessive to it, and agouti A_.
(OK, I'll admit, I do not know much about cchl or ch, but do I know the order of dominance)

Reworded.
cchd is dominant to everything on that allele except C, so paired with anything less you can get visual chinchilla color. cchd c for example will make a visual chinchilla, or if paired with non-extension, a frosty.

I hope that's coherent, but if not, I'm sure dood and akane can add some clarity (and correct any mistakes I might have made )

So then I am correct that he is carrying c(chd) but has C as well.

So a reworked genetics would be:

AaBBCc(chd)Ddee

The other part of it, how in the world did I get him from two selfs...easy they aren't selfs. I was wondering if steel could have had that effect. So does that mean all of the blacks I have are really steels? They all came from this one doe.

And thanks Zass I understood all of it, as well as I can, though that has nothing to do with you!

__________ Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:09 pm __________

Are you sure the broken blue wasn't broken opal? It makes more sense if we are dealing with self chins as one or both blacks and the fawn from an opal than steels.

I had thought that but I have yet to get any opals from him and he was my only buck for three years. I've gotten a ton of blues and blacks. And only this year I've gotten some torts for the first time. I do love broken patterned rabbits but for this one aspect, ability to hide indicators, I find them frustrating.