Red + Black = Copper

[Schipperkesue]

Well, at least it does in Satins. Other breeds may know this color as Chestnut, I think.

Here are my questions. Copper/Chestnut is a complicated color. Band width, color intensity, etc. Will I get a showable Copper on a first generation cross? Will I need to breed back to red, black or copper for the next generation to maximize my color quality? Do I need to give up this crazy notion and get myself some good quality coppers to breed instead? Will my questions incur the wrath of experienced rabbiters who have answered this question many times previously?

 

[Dood]

I thought "copper" was a chocolate agouti :shrug:

If it is a high Rufus chestnut then unless the black comes from a high Rufus agouti line it likely will reduce the red quality of the kits and I doubt you'd get a nice copper in a first generation

 

[Schipperkesue]

I thought "copper" was a chocolate agouti :shrug:

If it is a high Rufus chestnut then unless the black comes from a high Rufus agouti line it likely will reduce the red quality of the kits and I doubt you'd get a nice copper in a first generation

Oh dear! Chocolate agouti? That is gonna mess me up! I need more input please! Any Satin people out there? (She asks, knowing that there are!)

 

[ZachsRabbits]

I think it is just chestnut like how Dutch and English Spot breeders call chestnut ''gray''.

 

[Schipperkesue]

So, let's say it is chestnut. I have red and I have black. Which color would be the best choice for the next breeding?

 

[ZachsRabbits]

Red x Black should give you chestnuts but you will have to work on the ring color. So it might be your best bet to start with a good line of coppers though.

 

[sunrise]

In satins, chocolate agouti is a brown based copper (chestnut) A-bb-C-D-E-, copper is just regular chestnut A-B-C-D-E- with satirized fur. Red x Black will give you some coppers, then it depends on what the red and black are carrying. I have found that breeding a copper from that breeding back to a red is your best bet, helps keep the rufus high, you still have to watch the ring definition. I got my first coppers from breeding red to chin which is a big no no with the satin breeders. It gave me some beautiful coppers though, one is granded now. Took me awhile to breed the chin out though, had to use a few REW's to do it. You would probably ending up getting blacks and reds in your copper litters on down the line, but I never minded that. Oh, also there will probably be smut in any reds you get, not always, but usually.

 

[Schipperkesue]

Perfect! Red it is. Focus on color, rings and smut. Now I need to see a picture of a good quality and a poor quality Copper Satin ring. Anyone?

 

[sunrise]

Will try to find you one <br /><br /> __________ Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:24 am __________ <br /><br /> Sorry about the quality, hard to take ring pictures by yourself, lol. Second picture is good ring color and definition (please imagine it's not fuzzy!) First picture is poor ring definition. Babies can have poor definition in their baby coats, but by the time they're 12-14 weeks and the junior prime is starting to come in it should be good or it never will be.

 

[Schipperkesue]

Excellent! A picture is worth 1000 words!

 

[sunrise]

Just a couple more things (hope you don't mind). Although I wouldn't show a rabbit without decent ring definition, most judges put type first, then texture and density of fur, then color and rings. Also any copper kits you get from the first mating would all carry self - a(black) and non-extension -e (red). They would all be AaB-C-D-Ee, just keep that in mind. Good luck, let us know what you get. Oh, also the poor ring definition picture is a baby so the rings might get better, but density is bad, you should not be able to see the skin like that.