Re: *scratching my head* Huh? *We have another one!*

[TerriG]

We raised out a Doe (Ginger) from one of our litters. Her Dam (Wheezy) is an Agouti meat mutt. Out of all of her litters, we have gotten Agoutis, Black Silver Martins, Frosty, Torts, Fawns, Chinchillas, and Blacks. Her Sire (Thumper) is a Palomino that throws Otters and Shaded.

I have their genetics as:
Wheezy - Aa B_ Cc(chd) D_ Ee
Thumper - Aat B_ Cc(chl) Dd ee

Ginger is Fawn like her Sire, but not as clean. We bred Ginger to Thumper and she had 8 kits! It's her first litter and she is doing everything right. She is being an awesome Mom. Hopefully her kits don't have the same health problems that Wheezy's kits do. Ginger didn't get sick.

Anyway, her kits are just getting ready to open their eyes. They were all pink when they were born. Then they started to get fuzz and we had 2 white and 6 fawn. Not a big surprise at all. Most of her litter are Satin though, so that was exciting.

One of the white ones started getting fawn color on its eyes and base of the ears. We nicknamed it Bandit, b/c it looks like a mask. Now he is getting additional spots on his body, like a broken. How the heck did we get a broken? I will have to get some pics later so you guys can see what I am talking about. Out of all of our litters, we have never gotten a broken.

Our other Buck, Shadow, has Checkered Giant in him, but he is a different blood line (same breeder) than Thumper. The broken almost looks like Checkered Giant except the spots are Fawn. Once again, I am so confused

 

[Dood]

Eagerly awaiting for pictures

 

[TerriG]

I will get some ...

__________ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:20 pm __________

It's not letting me post

__________ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:21 pm __________

Ok, hopefully I can do this in a way that makes sense.

This is Ginger


This is Ginger's first litter


__________ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:21 pm __________

Check out this red satin!


This is the kit in question with the litter


__________ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:22 pm __________

And here is the kit in question ...




__________ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:23 pm __________

And here is Ginger's Mom, Wheezy


And here is Thumper. He is Ginger's Dad, and the sire of her litter
<br /><br />__________ Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:24 pm __________<br /><br />Had to break it down, but there you go!

 

[Dood]

FREAKY!

Looks like you may have a new mutation!!!!!! VERY COOL !

Unless of course there is any possibility a broken buck could have gotten her.

You may just have a spontaneous mutation of the english spot gene or a different mutation causing white. I would keep the kit and test breed him/her to see if it is dominant like English Spot, if not then breed back to the dam or sire and see if you get more.

 

[TerriG]

No chance of a broken buck getting her. We only have our Black buck and then the Palomino buck, Thumper, that sired this group. He does throw otters and shaded though.

We are going to keep an eye on this little one. I hope it isn't a buck. I don't think I would be able to convince my husband to keep him. We already ended up with an extra buck (for a total of 3 now) after the SCF visited our other "doe" that we were growing out. That is the Sable Point Marten that I have asked a million questions about.

 

[Miss M]

What interesting markings!

Hope it's a doe! :clover:

 

[GypsyTinker]

Sooo cool! Beautiful kit.

Please keep us updated with pics!

 

[Dood]

If it is a buck, you could try advertising to see if anyone wants to experiment with the kit and figure out the genetics. Only thing is they'll need the mom and/or sisters to breed with for the best chance to get more.

 

[Devon's Mom Lauren]

Is there a possibility of there being Dutch genetics way back? English Spot works on the broken gene and wouldn't show up unless one of the parents actually was a broken, but Dutch is a different story. It is very hard to keep correct Dutch markings once they start breeding into lines without the Dutch genetics and loads of modifiers.Even a first generation cross of Dutch to non Dutch can get only snippets of white on the toes..

 

[TerriG]

Is there a possibility of there being Dutch genetics way back? English Spot works on the broken gene and wouldn't show up unless one of the parents actually was a broken, but Dutch is a different story. It is very hard to keep correct Dutch markings once they start breeding into lines without the Dutch genetics and loads of modifiers.Even a first generation cross of Dutch to non Dutch can get only snippets of white on the toes..

I don't know. Wheezy is a meat mutt that was given to us with an unknown pedigree. We bought Thumper from a local breeder. This is the information that we have from her.

These bucks come from two bloodlines: The first is a satin rabbit line crossed with some checkered giant and silver martin lines for extra size. These rabbits grow to 11 to 13 pounds. They average 8 or 9 babies per litter, and are all black, with fur that has the satin sheen. (This is the line Shadow, our Black buck, is from)

The second bloodline is a high-production line. The mothers of these rabbits had litters of 9 and 15 babies this season--first litters-- and are good mothers. This bloodline has an average litter size of 12, and often the does can keep 12 babies alive. (fifteen requires some fostering.) These rabbits are primarily from the satin breed, with the compact, high meat-to-bone ration of satin rabbits. They are all palomino colored, and do not have the satin fur. (This is the line Thumper, our Palomino buck, is from. Ruby, a doe, is also from this line. I think Fern, a Tort doe, is from this line)

The breeder would put all of the weaned kits in a meat pen, colony style, so all the litters were combined. Information as to which line they were from was based on coat color.<br /><br />__________ Wed May 08, 2013 6:46 pm __________<br /><br />I need to take some new pictures. He is so stinking cute! Still not sure on sex.

 

[Disney]

Looks odd without the vienna/dutch gene present.
You should definitely keep track of that one and find out if it's hereditary.
Very interesting discovery
And i love your satins, i'm a satindwarf breeder myself.

 

[TerriG]

The satin is kind of a surprise this go around. We knew some of our stock carried it as a recessive, but we have satins popping up all over the place! Two out of our 3 litters have satins this time. The doe that doesn't is the one we were replacing anyway. The litters are about 50% satin.

I got some new pictures, just need to get them on the computer.

__________ Wed May 15, 2013 9:59 am __________

I was having phone to computer issues. I finally got my phone to sent out the pictures that I took last week.

Here's Bandit and his litter. We lost 2 satins to some kind of enteritis after they started on pellets. We have had really bad luck with satins. We haven't had any even reach 6 weeks. Hopefully these batches will change that!

Sorry they aren't the best pictures.







<br /><br />__________ Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:30 pm __________<br /><br />Unfortunately we lost Bandit last week. He was 9 weeks old. We noticed that his butt was a little messy, but he was still acting normal and would kick and carry on when you picked him up. A few days later, we found him dead in the pen This was the last picture we took of him. His coat didn't have clean spots, more like how our shaded kits have a fawn undercoat tint. You can see how clean the markings on his face were though.

 

[Dood]

I sorry to hear you lost the little guy.

His markings are very unique and it would have been interesting to see what his kits looked like.

 

[Peach]

I hope you retry the breeding! I wonder if the markings had something to do with the failure to thrive later on. I think something was hidden behind your rabbits. I don't see a butterfly on him

 

[WallTenter]

Both parents could be carrying dutch. Dudud or Duduw

 

[TerriG]

We have done this breeding since with no brokens ... until now. It looks like we have a couple in her current litter! We'll keep and eye on this. Hopefully we can raise them out.

 

[LilacGal]

Can't wait to see pics! I hope these guys make it to adulthood for you!

 

[Dood]

:cheer2: :cheer2: yippee!!! :cheer2: :cheer2:

 

[TerriG]

I had my ds go out and take some pictures of the 2 kits for me.

Kit #1:




Kit #2:

 

[Dood]

:congratulations: on a NEW MUTATION!!!!! :zombiebun:

Now to grow them out and play with it. :cauldron:

I wonder if ARBA could put you in contact with someone who could help ?