Ramblings of a Madwoman: Rex genes

[Deer Heart]

Okay, I feel pretty embarrassed even asking about this but basically I decided that I wanted to work on a line of rex rabbits again, instead of for pets this time I am hoping to breed them for the fur and color variations as well as take advantage of the meat.

I have tried google searches on cross breeding Rex, but for some reason I'm having great difficulty finding details there. You cannot find Standard Rex in my area, only mini rex. I am trying to determine what I would most likely get if I took a mini rex buck (non show quality, just getting the most suitable buck I can find with the coat type) and bred him to several NZW does. I know color is going to be completely random as there is no telling what the does carry but would all of the results come out carrying the rex gene but with normal coats showing, would I get some showing/some not, none showing but unknown if any are even carrying the gene? Or do both parents need to have the gene for results to even carry it?

I'd love a Punnett square for this if at all possible.


I'm surprised that even Wiki was useless in finding this answer honestly, almost every site is focused on coat color and not coat type when discussing rabbit genes.

 

[alforddm]

The major rex coat gene is recessive, so the first generation you will get all normal coated rabbits. If you then bred the siblings together you would get 25% rex coats. Or bred back to the rex parent for 50%. However, it seems that some of the characteristics of the rex coat are due to modifiers as many cross breeds will lack density and have random guard hairs. So, even if you end up with rex coated rabbits they could be low quality coats. When breeding to mini rex you add in size problems. I think it was Ramjet who has tried this experiment himself with poor results.

I've actually got a similar program going right now myself. I have two 1/2 rex does bred back to their rex sire right now. The first is due Dec 10th.

 

[Deer Heart]

I just don't know how else to get decent meat and nice big rex pelts. I wanted standard Rex but they really don't exist in my area. Market here is absolutely flooded with minis though.

Would I be better off grabbing the biggest "minis" I could find and just breeding up and culling anything that tosses peanuts?
I've seen some huge minis in my area, pedigreed and everything as a mini but massive compared to those in the show ring.

 

[alforddm]

Yeah, I've had a hard time finding Standard Rex in my area as well. I lucked out with my buck as I just happened to find a transporter that was actually going through my rather out of the way area.

Would I be better off grabbing the biggest "minis" I could find and just breeding up and culling anything that tosses peanuts?
I've seen some huge minis in my area, pedigreed and everything as a mini but massive compared to those in the show ring.

Yeah, I would try to get the biggest you can get that keeps a good quality coat. You may be able to find one that doesn't have a dwarf gene (sorry I'm no help on telling the difference). If it were me I would probably take the best out of the litters and breed them together to try and maintain the size. However, you're not going to get as many rex coated kits that way and it will probably take longer to get a good quality coat. Breeding back to the rex parent might increase coat quality faster but your going to be sacrificing size unless you can find a really large mini.

If your breeding for meat anyway I don't see any reason not to try. It might not work out or might take a long time but if you can't get them any other way? You're not really losing much except maybe some size on your meat mutts. I would just encourage you to keep looking for standard rex if you can.

 

[caroline]

There must be a way to arrange transport for a trio of Standard Rex.
I would NOT start with minis, if only for the temperament,
let alone the several generations it would take to get the double recessive coat back.
Or, plan your vacation with rabbit transport in mind.

Another possibilities is to plan ahead for the ARBA show next Oct-Nov.
and arrange for a breeder or judge from your area to bring you back some Rex rabbits.
I tried to look to see where the convention is next year but don't see it listed yet.
Maybe MSD can tell you since she went to the one just past in Portland.

There is a breeder listed on the National Rex Rabbit Club site in Woodstock, Georgia.
Maybe you could contact them and arrange something, or they may just know a breeder closer to you.
I have referred people to MSD when they lived closer to her than to me.

I buy my feed about 120 miles south of where I live every couple of months and
I have arranged to meet someone coming from as much as another 120 miles south
of there to hand off rabbits.

My mom always said, "Where there's aill there's a way."

 

[TF3]

The challenge with working from Mini Rex I understand, is not only size, but commercial type... they have the same coat type but they are not the same breed as Rex.
And as I have been told here, that proper coat needs those modifiers.
And they are strong!
I bred my Rex buck to a Flemish cross meat mutt doe... and got rex coated kits (surprise! never knew she was a rex carrier!) with excellent coats.
I plan to breed a daughter back to the sire for some rex-y meat mutts, but don't expect to keep that quality.

Definitely look into transporters and shows.
I got my trio from 600 km away... I found a breeder close to a family member and our summer plans crossed paths (my sister and I) to make the grab.
I didn't spend a lot of money, just did a lot of digging.
I live in Northern Ontario and there are very few Rex anywhere in the province.
So I have to think that living in the US, where you do, that there would be some means of making a connection.

But then, it depends on your goals!
I want to show and breed quality rex, but I also like the look and coat in my mutts and I am happy to have them, too!

 

[Prisma]

Yep, far better to be patient and network to get Rex than to just do with Minis. I've never had an issue with temperament in Minis but as already said, they just aren't the same and crossing can be a shot in the dark with coat quality after breeding back. Been working with friend since PA Convention in hopes of tri/harlequin Rex, finally getting started (got some last year but took this long to finally breed after letting them grow up etc). SO come January/February with any luck will be good. I would also look at those times for PA and OH conventions, even though not Rex nationals still may be able to find rides back from ones going to those areas in what you want.

 

[Ramjet]

After having experimented with crossing Rex X NZ(black) , if your goals are good Rex coats .... my recommendation is not crossing with anything. You are much better spending the time to find suitable Rex rather than dealing with all the genetic modifiers that affect the coat .... then adding in the mini mess.


You being in FLA , I'd recommend you find rabbits that are from a similar weather conditions .... not from up North , unless of course you have a climate controlled rabbitry.

Here's a link that shows 3 Rex breeders in FLA , just scroll down.

http://rabbitbreeders.us/rex-rabbit-breeders

That's not an endorsement for any of those listed .... haven't dealt with any of them and not sure if they are active or not.

If those don't help , I'd look in other Gulf Coast states ....

 

[sunrise]

Convention is in San Diego, CA next year. If you can get on a rex (or regional rabbit breeders) Facebook page and ask it would probably be very possible to transport from just about anywhere.

 

[caroline]

WOW San Diego! on the West Coast AGAIN! I may have to go :

For those [rare, like me ] individuals not on FB

you can also look at the ARBA breeders' directory

https://www.arba.net/breeders.htm#rx

and the Rex Club breeders' directory

http://www.nationalrexrc.org/breeders.htm

 

[sunrise]

First time I get to go! Can't wait...

 

[Deer Heart]

Unfortunately, I am highly limited by my location. I live alone and have no one to care for my animals if I leave longer than a day. Not only that but my full time job does not allow me to take off for too long (I am the only one trained in my position, great job security but risky if you take off too much time). :/

Anything that takes me longer than 2 hrs to get to is out of the question. Only thing listed by ARBA in a range I could do is in Bartow which is even MORE south FL, so might very likely even have less selection as I don't think people from surrounding states go that far south for the most part? I'll just put it like this. Both shows I've been to were like... Mostly minirex being shown and ofc mostly minirex being sold. A couple JW, LH, ML, and ND's. There wasn't a single non "pet" breed for sale and non "pet" breeds being shown were so few and far. There was 5 SF, 7 NZ, and I think 15 SRex being shown (total, between 2 separate triple opens).
And yes, heat AND humidity tolerance is extremely important for my area. Anything outside a few key states would die the first true day of summer as I do not use A/C in my rabbitry.

Anyone know of any folks who would travel that far south for a show?

 

[TF3]

I know there is a transport facebook page for my province, you might find something similar~ someone who shows and travels who might bring something back?

 

[alforddm]

I say go for it if you don't mind cleaning up after yourself (ie eating most of the results). It's likely to take you a long time to get anywhere close to where you want to be but at least you're working forward. If situations change and you find a way to get a full blood standard rex you really haven't lost much but your time and maybe the size of your dinner.

 

[Random Rabbit]

Unfortunately, I am highly limited by my location. I live alone and have no one to care for my animals if I leave longer than a day. Not only that but my full time job does not allow me to take off for too long (I am the only one trained in my position, great job security but risky if you take off too much time). :/


Anyone know of any folks who would travel that far south for a show?

There is a Very good and reliable person located in St. Cloud Florida... He travels and transports ( for a reasonable fee) to many shows. ( even as far north as NY ) He is knowledgeable on what a Good rabbit should be... and absolutely will Not transport any animal with health issues.
If You might be interested... i can PM You his information. ( or if You are on FB... i can message You. )

 

[Deer Heart]

Unfortunately, I am highly limited by my location. I live alone and have no one to care for my animals if I leave longer than a day. Not only that but my full time job does not allow me to take off for too long (I am the only one trained in my position, great job security but risky if you take off too much time). :/


Anyone know of any folks who would travel that far south for a show?

There is a Very good and reliable person located in St. Cloud Florida... He travels and transports ( for a reasonable fee) to many shows. ( even as far north as NY ) He is knowledgeable on what a Good rabbit should be... and absolutely will Not transport any animal with health issues.
If You might be interested... i can PM You his information. ( or if You are on FB... i can message You. )

I cannot thank this post enough, PM is fine - I scarcely check facebook as mine is still under construction.

 

[dfr1973]

There must be something in either the air or the water around here ... I am also feeling frustrated about a dearth of standard Rexes, but do have a pair of what look to be Mini Rexes and one larger Rex cross. My main goals are meat and fur, so if I need to make a long-term project of this, so be it.

Sali, are you interested in sharing info? Whereabouts are you? I am here in Putnam County.

 

[akane]

If you aren't breeding for show I'd find some nice tempered, oversized minis to breed. They'll throw the pelts you want and sell as pets. Most of mine were good personality. The failures in temperament were always spectacular when they happened but rare. Far easier to work with than netherlands. 5lb mini rex aren't usually hard to find but here pretty much no mini rex uses the dwarf gene or again I have to go to my "all dwarf genes may not be created equal" because I never saw a peanut from a MR or heard anyone talk of any. I had 2 different lines from southern WI, 1 from southern IA, chocolates from IL, and I forget some.... and I never ran into any sign of dwarf genes. Mostly it was a range of size thing. Breed small to smaller and get mostly in between. Same the other way. If you start with big ones you will probably get mostly big ones. It wasn't hard to get properly sized MR for show from properly sized MR.

The problem will come when you reach the limit of what you can find locally for size and have culled out any that throw smaller offspring. They don't just jump up in size. My meat mutts that started with a chocolate mini rex and creme d'argent reached a stable size and pretty much didn't budge. Not until I brought in bigger rabbits again. Size reaches a max point of whatever genes your biggest rabbit brought in and they just don't increase much anymore. I got a huge champagne buck at that point and then 2 half checkered giant does. It would take many many generations to go too far beyond the biggest MR in your area. You'll also have to watch the coat quality on big MR because you then risk that someone crossed somewhere themselves or just ignored coat quality. The two that were 5lbs of mine had horrible coat quality and horrible temperament. The person breeding didn't care what she was breeding and didn't mind misleading newbies.

 

[michaels4gardens]

There must be a way to arrange transport for a trio of Standard Rex.
I would NOT start with minis, if only for the temperament,
let alone the several generations it would take to get the double recessive coat back.
Or, plan your vacation with rabbit transport in mind.

Another possibilities is to plan ahead for the ARBA show next Oct-Nov.
and arrange for a breeder or judge from your area to bring you back some Rex rabbits.
I tried to look to see where the convention is next year but don't see it listed yet.
Maybe MSD can tell you since she went to the one just past in Portland.

There is a breeder listed on the National Rex Rabbit Club site in Woodstock, Georgia.
Maybe you could contact them and arrange something, or they may just know a breeder closer to you.
I have referred people to MSD when they lived closer to her than to me.

I buy my feed about 120 miles south of where I live every couple of months and
I have arranged to meet someone coming from as much as another 120 miles south
of there to hand off rabbits.

My mom always said, "Where there's aill there's a way."

I personally... would go this way -- if it were me...[ trying to re-make a line of "true to type" Rex rabbits from off and unknown genetics, is a very long term project, can be very frustrating, and still end up largely a failure ]...

 

[skysthelimit]

Ohio Mini Convention in May is a great time to look for breeders. Loads of people come from southern states, as several Nationals are held there every year. I believe Angora Nationals will be there again, and I know someone from FL who transports. I can ask. There are several Rex groups and Rex Classifieds groups on FB, with breeder listings and links.

After breeding Rex for several years, and trying to "fix" fur and weight in a purebred herd, I seriously suggest that you not try to breed up. It's just not that simple. I've spent several years eliminating protruding guard hairs and getting correct density. And there is already a big problem with size and making weight in the breed, which goes to show that once you introduce that small gene, even if it's from a false dwarf, it's hard to get that size back. It takes generations. I removed a large Rex from my herd because I needed a different type and now I'm back to smaller Rex. One generation ruined years of work, and no mini was ever involved.

If it wasn't for our climate difference, I'd send you a pair just to make sure you don't have to mess around.